Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

[roundabout]

Mostly racing circumstances that separates it from 2019, eh? No crosswinds this year, and his crashes mattered less.

Roglic handled Velefique very well when he was alone (both the last climb and the Lopez attack before that)

He wasn't afraid to go with Bernal and then lost no time on the Covadonga.

He had no issues on the Gamoniteiru the day after.

He ended up on the right side of split on stage 20, so decision making was very good (even if he needed Kruijswijk before that).

He beat all other GC riders by large margins on stage 21.

Maybe he could have done something similar in 2019 and as you say it's just the circumstances, but in 2021 he did actually put it all together without any hypotheticals.

 

[Red Rick]

Mostly racing circumstances that separates it from 2019, eh? No crosswinds this year, and his crashes mattered less.

He wasn't a bonafide sprinter/stomper yet, and nothing came really close to the Covadonga stage. TT margins are also bigger now.

 

[Blobs]

Pogacar vs Roglic will now be the new Armstrong vs Ullrich. Armstrong is Pogacar, Ullrich is Roglic...

Maybe like the 2003 tour. Aside from that one TT we haven't really seen anything that indicates Pogacar is miles ahead of Roglic at this point.

 

[Red Rick]

Sooooo....

World championships? Yay/nay? What's he gonna do?

I think it's probably better for him than Harrogate and he should be fresher as well.

 

[Rackham]

Sooooo....

World championships? Yay/nay? What's he gonna do?

I think it's probably better for him than Harrogate and he should be fresher as well.

I read a few days ago he's definitely not doing the TT: Primož Roglič unlikely to contest time trial rainbow jersey at Flanders World Championships | Cycling Weekly

As for the road race, I don't know.

 

[Red Rick]

I read a few days ago he's definitely not doing the TT: Primož Roglič unlikely to contest time trial rainbow jersey at Flanders World Championships | Cycling Weekly

As for the road race, I don't know.

Then I guess he won't do the road race either? Though it's kind of a lottery shot sort of worth it for both him and Pogacar.

 

[Rackham]

Then I guess he won't do the road race either? Though it's kind of a lottery shot sort of worth it for both him and Pogacar.

Yeah that interview did seem like it vaguely implied the road race wasn't on his agenda either. But wait & see.

I imagine Pogacar actually wants him to go (because one can attack & force others to chase etc.). But does Roglic even want to go & fight for the world championship on Wout van Aert's home turf?

It could get a little messy (once again, after last year's drama in Belgian media).

 

[johnymax]

He should defenitely ride the road race, I don't see any reason why not. I also don't understand why he won't do the ITT. I know it's pan flat and there is only a small chance to get a medal and even smaller to become World champion, but of the 5 ITTs he has ridden this year he has 4wins and one 3rd place. He is probably in the best TT shape of his life right now.

As I understand, Pogačar is the one getting a shot at the ITTs both in EC and WC, which is fine. But in the Worlds Slovenia should have 2 spots for the TT. I suppose the other spot goes to Tratnik if Roglič doesn't go.

For the road race neither Pogi nor Rogla are Slovenia's best bet for the win. That's Mohorič who is flying these days. But with the combination of the three of them, they can do serious damage in Flandres. I will be very disappointed if Rogla doesn't ride.

 

[Rackham]

We shouldn't forget the recent shakeup in the Slovenian national team with Andrej Hauptman's departure after the Olympics (in a situation which Roglic himself described as being "sh*t").

So there's stuff beneath the surface which could make this whole world championship a bit more complicated.

 

[Rackham]

In any case I don't think anything else is required of Roglic this season. He has given enough. I'd only like to see him in the world championship if he's expressly going to grab that rainbow jersey for himself & not ride for someone else's glory (be it Pogacar's, Mohoric or even WVA).

Il Lombardia will be fun, but it's not like going in to a race with the expectation of a result. Those one day races have a lottery element to them so whatever happens will happen.

I won't get ahead of myself here but January can't come soon enough i.e. when we'll find out whether he does the Italian races (Tirreno again?) or goes to fix that French jinx & win Paris-Nice (before whatever other goals he'll have in 2022).

 

[CyclistAbi]

Roglič said it was a hard race but that he enjoyed each day of the race.

Roglič s četrto etapno zmago potrdil tretje zaporedno slavje na Vuelti

Primož Roglič je na sanjski način končal Dirko po Španiji. Na kronometru je ugnal vse tekmece in se veselil tretje zaporedne skupne zmage na Vuelti. Zdaj je na večni lestvici pred njim le še Roberto Heras.

www.rtvslo.si

The way i have seen it is as a dominant display of skill and power.

Chapeau!

 

[KZD]

I personally really hope that he does the Italian fall classics after a little break. Il Lombardia should be within his range after what he showed in 2019.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Il Lombardia will likely happen. As for WC i am not all that sure about that. AFAIK the decision was not made yet but likely he needs to get in touch with the coach first and discuss it a bit.

The only problem i guess is who is the coach.

 

[shalgo]

Now that he has won his third Vuelta in a row, this thread should return at least temporarily to its old name, Primoz Roglic is the new Tony Rominger, in honour of his achievement.

 

[Sandisfan]

Now that he has won his third Vuelta in a row, this thread should return at least temporarily to its old name, Primoz Roglic is the new Tony Rominger, in honour of his achievement.

If Roglic were to my delight win a TDF or Giro it could be named the Better Tony Rominger.

 

[Rackham]

If Roglic were to my delight win a TDF or Giro it could be named the Better Tony Rominger.

It would be beautiful but I don't see it as a "necessity" for his legacy tbh. I mean I've seen a few articles pop up over the last 24 hours in which there's a "no Tour de France, no glory" conclusion, such as this one: Primoz Roglic: Where does Vuelta a Espana champion rank among the greats after third win? - Eurosport

Not to denigrate a race that is loved by so many, but one Tour de France is worth… I don’t know how many Vueltas. More than three, anyway.

I can answer this point in several ways... including by pointing out the names of Tour winners from the past 20 years & comparing them to Roglic on the "glory" spectrum:

Pogacar
Bernal
Thomas
Froome
Nibali
Wiggins
Evans
Schleck
Contador
Sastre
Pereiro
Lance

I have my own bias but in terms of "greats" on that list, Roglic is with Nibali right now & just beneath Contador & Froome. He has the rest beaten (including Lance for other reasons). Pogacar is an ongoing rivalry so things will evolve there.

And I also consider the actual performances, style & behavior to be relevant as well, i.e. when riders such as Roglic perform extraordinary feats on a bike & behave in a way which people like, it creates a long lasting impression which dwarves statistics (i.e. it's quite easy to imagine a few names on the above list getting stomped pretty badly by 2021 Roglic... both physically & humanely).

Other aspects to consider:

- Roglic goes for the win in every race he enters, so his list of one week stage race victories & exploits during the 2018, 2019, 2020 & 2021 seasons matter.

- in 2021 all races are televised (viewable via streaming as well) & accessible. So the monopoly of the Tour on exposure is lesser than previously.

- we're also in one of the most competitive eras where teams fight tooth & nail for a slice of the world tour cake. This means previous eras where riders who would use pre-Tour races (or even the Vuelta) as form building exercises for the bigger prizes are no longer the norm. Winning the Tour of Basque Country (for example) has become in & of itself a real goal. The fight is everywhere & Roglic incarnates that modern aspect of cycling best, i.e. just look at the intensity of his defeat in Paris-Nice (riding to the line bruised & injured even when all was already lost) or the massive fight in Itzulia versus Pogacar. These were real prizes targeted by the world's best riders.

I only post about this because the inevitable conversation about "all time greats" aka goats usually overlooks some important factors, i.e. namely the fact a rider's fame & renown isn't dictated by numbers on his Wikipedia page.

In public perception I assume Roglic is mostly viewed as someone who has massive setbacks but always comes back stronger & wins massive prizes with the best ability to bounce back from disasters in cycling (& arguably entire world of professional sports, everything included). So to answer that Eurosport article I previous quoted above, I'd say that is already worth more than 1 or 2 Tours.

 

[bNator]

I am not convinced that TDF win is necessary to be considered among the all-time greats. I mean luck and circumstance play huge role when winning the event that is only hosted once per year. But that’s not my argument. I’m trying to look in other sports to find equivalent and the best I could come up with is F1 world championship. Take a look at Stirling Moss and Gilles Villeneuve. Both immortal legendary drivers, considered by everyone as amongst the greats of the sport. Never won a championship.

Roglic of course will have won the tour a couple of times by the time he puts his cycling shoes to rest for good, but even if he doesn’t - noone will try to convince anyone that Evans or Wiggo are greater than Roglic…

 

[gregrowlerson]

He wasn't a bonafide sprinter/stomper yet, and nothing came really close to the Covadonga stage. TT margins are also bigger now.

Putting my Bavarianrider hat on for a moment: I don't understand this "TT margins are also bigger now" narrative??

That Vuelta TT was 33.8 kms, and Roglic only gained 2:04 over Mas. If Mas went into a time machine and took on Armstrong and Ullrich around 20 years ago, he would have lost at least 5 minutes in a 55 km ITT. And I think that we can all agree that Primoz is on the level of those guys against the clock, so how are these bigger margins?

And to the post about Roglic not necessarily needing to win a Tour: I agree partly with that, but currently I still think he is a long way behind Contador and Froome. He needs at least a Giro to start getting into the conversation with those guys.

 

[Rackham]

And to the post about Roglic not necessarily needing to win a Tour: I agree partly with that, but currently I still think he is a long way behind Contador and Froome. He needs at least a Giro to start getting into the conversation with those guys.

Still, I still think the "bigger picture" of multiple 1 week stage race victories + a monument + Olympics gold medal bridges the gap to someone like Froome more so than the raw number of GT wins would suggest. Roglic wins everywhere (he's even ahead in GT stage victories now).

And he's nowhere near done yet.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Still, I still think the "bigger picture" of multiple 1 week stage race victories + a monument + Olympics gold medal bridges the gap to someone like Froome more so than the raw number of GT wins would suggest. Roglic wins everywhere (he's even ahead in GT stage victories now).

And he's nowhere near done yet.

Froome completed the GT slam: Tour, Vuelta, Giro in less than a year. Huge and rare achievement. As for the rest, Roglic is probably in the middle of his prime and still has time to catch up with those ahead.

 

[gregrowlerson]

Still, I still think the "bigger picture" of multiple 1 week stage race victories + a monument + Olympics gold medal bridges the gap to someone like Froome more so than the raw number of GT wins would suggest. Roglic wins everywhere (he's even ahead in GT stage victories now).

And he's nowhere near done yet.

Yeah that's true. I'm pretty biased towards GT's though.

Having said that, I'd also still rate Nibali ahead of Roglic (4 GT's, 3 monuments)....for now.

I do rate one week races as having some importance also, but Roglic is not really much better than Contador and Froome in this regard anyway, right? At least Contador won a huge number of stage races.

 

[BlueRoads]

Roglic has now built himself a really nice legacy already, but he is nowhere near Froome or Contador. Not close. As much as I like the one day races personally, winning multiple GTs including the Tour! multiple times is something else entirely. And it's not like he's the first athlete to suffer and overcome mishaps, bad luck and bad health.
He also isn't with Nibali, who has won every GT and what, 3 monuments?
I would maybe put him somewhere with Sastre.

 

[gregrowlerson]

Roglic has now built himself a really nice legacy already, but he is nowhere near Froome or Contador. Not close. As much as I like the one day races personally, winning multiple GTs including the Tour! multiple times is something else entirely. And it's not like he's the first athlete to suffer and overcome mishaps, bad luck and bad health.
He also isn't with Nibali, who has won every GT and what, 3 monuments?
I would maybe put him somewhere with Sastre.

The Tour!

Start making this a forum thing, like LS's FEDAIAAAA!

I agree with all of that, except for Sastre. Carlos was a great consistent rider, but his best is nowhere near Roglic' best imo. I wouldn't put him in the same conversation.

Even though he won the TOURRRR!

 

[BlueRoads]

The Tour!

Start making this a forum thing, like LS's FEDAIAAAA!

I agree with all of that, except for Sastre. Carlos was a great consistent rider, but his best is nowhere near Roglic' best imo. I wouldn't put him in the same conversation.

Even though he won the TOURRRR!

Roglic surely is better right now than Sastre... still I think it's just very hard to look past the Tour as a king-maker. I get a bit of what Rackham says, that it's not just the numbers, but if people look back on a "legacy" that's exactly what they will look at, I suppose. But Roglic has the advantage that his career isn't over yet.

 

[CyclistAbi]

The great thing about it he gets to beat Pogačar. Then this debates should be settled.