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Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

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Carols

Carols

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johnymax said:
You are trying too hard searching for reasons IMO. In the end of the day it's very simple. Roglič in this race is riding for the Slovenian National Team. Every member of that team has the obligation to ride for the best result possible for that team. It doesn't matter who owns what to who. If there's a situation in the race where Mohorič is alone at the front and from the chasing group behind Van Aert attacks and only Roglič can follow, Primož has to only follow wheels and doesn't need to give Wout turns.

In races where Roglič races as a member of Team Jumbo Visma it's the other way around. He has to ride the way that brings the best possible result to his team and that would be collaborating with Wout and racing against Mohorič, despite coming from the same country.

Also...as I've said. Slovenia has 1a, 1b and 1c options. The 3 of them won't work for nobody (only if on the day of the race somebody of the three won't feel ok), but they'll work WITH each other. If one of them is in a front group of attackers, the other two will just follow the attacks from the chasing group. And that's how it's supposed to be. Then a week later in the Italian fall classics, they'll be rivals again racing against each other.
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+100
 
Rackham

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Carols said:
It means I agree 100% with the post.
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It was a nice sentiment in that post (i.e. all for the national team & do whatever possible for a teammate to win etc.) but in effect, they all raced as individuals looking for an opportunity to follow the right move/wheels.

Roglic got his in that early move but even Tratnik didn't commit entirely to pulling for him because it was clear the official plan really was "all for Mohoric" (which made sense with his Bahrain teammate as well).

But that was not really enforceable as a team so what happened was just a collection of individual riders today looking for an opportunity (for example Jan Polanc alone in a chase group behind the WvA/Mohoric/Alaphilippe group after the big split whilst Pogacar & Roglic sat behind confirmed this).
 
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Carols

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Rackham said:
It was a nice sentiment in that post (i.e. all for the national team & do whatever possible for a teammate to win etc.) but in effect, they all raced as individuals looking for an opportunity to follow the right move/wheels.

Roglic got his in that early move but even Tratnik didn't commit entirely to pulling for him because it was clear the official plan really was "all for Mohoric" (which made sense with his Bahrain teammate as well).

But that was not really enforceable as a team so what happened was just a collection of individual riders today looking for an opportunity (for example Jan Polanc alone in a chase group behind the WvA/Mohoric/Alaphilippe group after the big split whilst Pogacar & Roglic sat behind confirmed this).
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Well hopefully they learned something from France, Italy and Belguim about how to ride as a National Team!
 
Rackham

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Carols said:
Well hopefully they learned something from France, Italy and Belguim about how to ride as a National Team!
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Let's hope Belgium isn't the best example.

As for the race, I also hope this might "calm" some of the (almost fanatical) WvA support - even within Jumbo-Visma itself.

Even JV's social media had eyes for WvA only, i.e. all about him constantly whilst their other 3 riders in the WC race didn't exist. So when it comes to WvA wanting the team to focus on the green jersey in next year's Tour, some questions should be asked in the team (i.e. namely the fact it could be detrimental to Roglic's yellow ambition).
 
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Bonimenier

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pablohidalgo7 said:
Yesterday brougth me memories of 2016 Roglic, always starting the crucial hills in the last 3-5 five riders of the group but finishing the climbs almost in the half of the peloton passing "dead riders" all the time, still this is not enough for being a factor in a parcour like this one, but I think he is in OK shape for the italians races.
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I believe so too. Positioning is way less of a crucial factor in the Italian races. It's also a reason why I didn't expect a lot from him yesterday. He's not the greatest at positioning. It was kind of ridiculous how he was 4th favourite according to the bookmakers.
 
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Rackham

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Positioning aside (i.e. with regards to positioning skills), what we saw yesterday was Roglic barely in the Slovenian train (he was hanging around at the back most of the time until he slipped into that early breakaway & then once caught, he returned to the back) & then what appeared to be a "legs no longer responding" issue after 200km+.

I think he really did just show up to see what's what, try his luck & have some fun (I even saw him chatting & laughing with the Polish rider Bodnar at one point late in the race whilst the rest mostly all looked like they were dying). So I wouldn't read more into the race & his capabilities on such a circuit, especially regarding future prospects (impossible is nothing with this rider).

Although with the venues coming up in 2022 & 2023 in Australia & Glasgow, I doubt either will be suitable so the "dream" of seeing Roglic in a world champion jersey at some point in his career might just remain a dream.
 
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BlueRoads

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Rackham said:
Positioning aside (i.e. with regards to positioning skills), what we saw yesterday was Roglic barely in the Slovenian train (he was hanging around at the back most of the time until he slipped into that early breakaway & then once caught, he returned to the back) & then what appeared to be a "legs no longer responding" issue after 200km+.

I think he really did just show up to see what's what, try his luck & have some fun (I even saw him chatting & laughing with the Polish rider Bodnar at one point late in the race whilst the rest mostly all looked like they were dying). So I wouldn't read more into the race & his capabilities on such a circuit, especially regarding future prospects (impossible is nothing with this rider).

Although with the venues coming up in 2022 & 2023 in Australia & Glasgow, I doubt either will be suitable so the "dream" of seeing Roglic in a world champion jersey at some point in his career might just remain a dream.
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I think yesterday really didn't suit him well, it was basically a race for classics-hardmen/ specialists for very long races and (ex)crossers and Roglic is neither. Look at the top 10: Valgren, van Baarle, Stuyven, Sénéchal, Colbrelli// Stybar, Pidcock, Alaphilippe, van der Poel. Roglic's name would be weird in that row. The only one who snuck in who I would not have expected there was Powless, but maybe nobody has assessed Powless correctly so far, maybe he's actually better in long races as well... Anyway, the way Roglic behaved before, during and after the race says he knew that and didn't see it as a problem.

Mohoric was actually disappointing, compared to what I would have expected from him.
 
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Rackham

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BlueRoads said:
I think yesterday really didn't suit him well, it was basically a race for classics-hardmen/ specialists for very long races and (ex)crossers and Roglic is neither. Look at the top 10: Valgren, van Baarle, Stuyven, Sénéchal, Colbrelli// Stybar, Pidcock, Alaphilippe, van der Poel. Roglic's name would be weird in that row. The only one who snuck in who I would not have expected there was Powless, but maybe nobody has assessed Powless correctly so far, maybe he's actually better in long races as well... Anyway, the way Roglic behaved before, during and after the race says he knew that and didn't see it as a problem.

Mohoric was actually disappointing, compared to what I would have expected from him.
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Powless seemed to come straight with his San Sebastian form.

And I'm a subscriber to the "Roglic supremacy theory" (I just made that term up), which basically means he can do it all if he works at it. Yes, I get the physiological "barriers" people might mention with regards to the different types of efforts required on climbs of various lengths (positioning is something which can seriously be worked on as well), but this is a rider I've watched emerge as someone who shocked commentators when he first started TT'ing with the best. At that point we heard he could never climb with the best. Then he did, at which point we heard he didn't have the endurance to win a stage race, which he did, at which point we heard he'd never win a GT over 3 weeks, which he did, at which point people started splitting hairs about his performance on long climbs versus short climbs.

And on & on. A rider is not considered a specialist at something until wins at something. Just look at Wout van Aert, i.e. a man who defies preconceived notions about what a rider should or should not be able to do (he can climb, sprint, TT & do everything in between).
 
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