Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

[Kwibus]

Van Hooydonck first time loss was in the Vingegaard mechanical debacle.

Then he was in the group with Vingegaard and Van Aert through the Roglic crash site.

Then he waited for Roglic around the time when there is a second time loss (27 km to go)

Or IOW, for the graph to work, it should be marked when Van Aert joined Vingegaard and Van Hooydonck joined Roglic

What you said is correct. This graph is misleading unless you look at it well and use the footage next to it. When van Hooydonck joined up with Roglic he was a minute behind the Vingegaard group.

 

[roundabout]

I do think that Roglic was circa 20 seconds behind the Vingegaard group when he got going. He was about a minute behind Pogacar group entering the first cobbles sector after his crash and Vingegaard and co were probably 40 seconds or so behind at that point (maybe slightly less)

 

[CyclistAbi]

@Kwibus

It wasn't bad luck. They did a poor job. But obviously feel free to have your own opinion.

 

[CyclistAbi]

As for stage 6. It looks like Roglič will start. Due to it being long and bumpy. They will likely make the decision after today. That is if it makes sense to proceed or to abandon.

In my opinion the most likely scenario is for Roglič to abandon the race. If not today then likely during the stage tomorrow.

 

[Kwibus]

@Kwibus

It wasn't bad luck. They did a poor job. But obviously feel free to have your own opinion.

What do you consider a poor job? Vingegaard panicking after somebody hit his derailleur? Roglic falling over Ewan and getting his shoulder dislocated?

 

[CyclistAbi]

@Kwibus

At minimum they should have been drilling it at the front. As a classics team. If a crash would occur over there that would account as having a bad luck. What they did instead is they managed to leave Rogla alone in the bunch. Some weird accident after can't be contributed to having a bad luck anymore.

Or the short answer. They did a poor job as they as a team did the opposite of what they were supposed to do on stage 5. Defending them in this case doesn't do anybody any favor. They should own it.

 

[Elos Anjos]

The drama surrounding's Primoz cycling life is unsurpassed by anyother. One must take heed to see that while 1) Jumbo as an high budget team and continously makes serious mistakes in every GT - I for one was already pointing out the strange tactics in stage 4 - and 2) driving attention to Vingo is not justified after a 2021 Vuelta where Roglic was around 5m to the 2nd, it's very easy to point responsability for all the chaos and mayhem to Jumbo.

Keep in mind that only in hindsight does it seem controlllable. Assessing it as bad luck just says that there were too many factors to warrant the best possible outcome

Some things like the following are a common mistake.

For that reason i also don't blame JV team for dropping back helping Jonas at all. Pogačar showed how a GC guy can/should race if he wants to survive such stages. Roglič was loosing wheels and positions again this year. Forget the team. He should make his own fortunes. He's probably not strong enough to do it and Pogačar is an alien so that's it i guess.

The mistake here is saying that because Pogacar never crashed he makes his own fortune, where as Roglic crashes, he doesn't and he can't. This is a logical fallacy and I hope people can see through it.

 

[skippo12]

The mistake here is saying that because Pogacar never crashed he makes his own fortune, where as Roglic crashes, he doesn't and he can't. This is a logical fallacy and I hope people can see through it.

Pogacar invested a lot of energy to avoid crashes. How? Positioning. Cannot remember a single sector where he wasn´t among the top 5 of the group. JV leaders not being able or willing to do the same is on them. Freak accidents happen but they could have done a lot more to reduce the risk.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Just seen Rogla smiling and chatty on the TV.

Maybe in the end this all was tactical decision by JV. That is to abandon him on stage 5. For him to crash out back in the bunch. Likely they planted the hay too. To break the fall. Now they plan to attack Pogačar while he being on Jonas wheel.

You got to love cycling.

 

[Kwibus]

@Kwibus

At minimum they should have been drilling it at the front. As a classics team. If a crash would occur over there that would account as having a bad luck. What they did instead is they managed to leave Rogla alone in the bunch. Some weird accident after can't be contributed to having a bad luck anymore.

Or the short answer. They did a poor job as they as a team did the opposite of what they were supposed to do on stage 5. Defending them in this case doesn't do anybody any favor. They should own it.

It's what I said. They missed WvA for the drilling at the front. It was 100% their intention to lead onto the cobbles every time, but they simply failed at it. Missing WvA makes it harder and it's incredibly hard to stay grouped and at the front on a stage like this.

 

[Gratemans]

The drama surrounding's Primoz cycling life is unsurpassed by anyother.

Kelderman would like a word

 

[Fergoose]

Primoz dislocated his shoulder yesterday… I think that it will be the way it was last year, and he will abandon the Tour at next weekend, at the latest. So I expect a DNS/DNF today, tomorrow, or Saturday/Sunday. No way he‘ll still be in the race next week…

With the story of him putting his arm back in the socket I guess the reason he never made it as a top flight sky jumper is because his enormous balls kept weighing him down.

 

[Unterlenkerfahrend]

Anyone knows if he hurt anything else apart from his shoulder? Cause if he put it back in right himself it actually could be okay. Yellow is probably out of reach now but I'd sure love to see it if he slaps the Ineos bores around in the mountains.

 

[johnymax]

I think the most underrated thing that happened yesterday, and brought big consequences, was Van Aert crashing at the beginning of the stage. Since his crash, he was never able to move to the front of the peloton with Roglič and Vingegaard where he needed to be.
If he is at the front with Roglic and Laporte when Vingegaard has his mechanical, he probably never goes back to the Vingegaard group but stays in front of Roglic and guides him through the cobbled sectors. This probably means better position for Roglic and maybe they avoid the crash.

But if you think about it...how unfortunate they (Rogla especially) were yesterday, it almost hurts. Every stage, stage 5 up to that roundabout included, the team was doing an excellent job avoiding crashes by accelerating before going into tricky stretches of road, be it before a roundabout, before difficult turns, before there was road forniture ahead, before cobbled sectors,... One of the few times they didn't do that, because they didn't have the numbers and another team anticipated them, a freak accident happens and Roglic's Tour dreams are basically over in a second (this year). So so very unlucky...

 

[CyclistAbi]

It's what I said. They missed WvA for the drilling at the front. It was 100% their intention to lead onto the cobbles every time, but they simply failed at it. Missing WvA makes it harder and it's incredibly hard to stay grouped and at the front on a stage like this.

They failed at it yes. I can agree with that.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Anyone knows if he hurt anything else apart from his shoulder? Cause if he put it back in right himself it actually could be okay. Yellow is probably out of reach now but I'd sure love to see it if he slaps the Ineos bores around in the mountains.

Apparently hip area took some damage too.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@johnymax

The simple worst possible scenario from their point of view was Roglič isolated at the back in the bunch on stage 5. They knew this for about a year. And at the day of the stage 5. Exactly this scenario happened. This can't be contributed to bad luck. It was a job poorly done.

 

[CyclistAbi]

At beginning of stage 6. JV chasing breakaways and van Aert in good position. Pogi under difficulty... Stage 2, 3, 4, 6 all OK. As for the 5.

Yikes.

 

[Elos Anjos]

@johnymax

The simple worst possible scenario from their point of view was Roglič isolated at the back in the bunch on stage 5. They knew this for about a year. And at the day of the stage 5. Exactly this scenario happened. This can't be contributed to bad luck. It was a job poorly done.

Look, you keep posting like a madman but if you tryed to be more careful you could actually engage in conversation with comments others are addressing at the same issues.

 

[johnymax]

@johnymax

The simple worst possible scenario from their point of view was Roglič isolated at the back in the bunch on stage 5. They knew this for about a year. And at the day of the stage 5. Exactly this scenario happened. This can't be contributed to bad luck. It was a job poorly done.

Roglič wasn't isolated at the back of the group. He was around 15-20th position and had at least Laporte a couple of positions ahead of him.
And people saying how they had a year to prepare for the stage...wtf?! You can prepare for the stage, by choosing the right type of riders, do a recon of the stage and have a general tactic. But if unpredictable things happen you need to adjust the tactic in real time and this is where JV has been bad in the last couple of years.

 

[johnymax]

At beginning of stage 6. JV chasing breakaways and van Aert in good position. Pogi under difficulty... Stage 2, 3, 4, 6 all OK. As for the 5.

Yikes.

What are they doing in stage 6 so far? The only thing is Van Aert trying to go into the break to keep yellow, because apparently they decided before the stage that they won't ride at the front of the peloton to keep the break in check.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Look, you keep posting like a madman but if you tryed to be more careful you could actually engage in conversation with comments others are addressing at the same issues.

No. This time they should own it. It's not debatable.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Roglič wasn't isolated at the back of the group. He was around 15-20th position and had at least Laporte a couple of positions ahead of him.
And people saying how they had a year to prepare for the stage...wtf?! You can prepare for the stage, by choosing the right type of riders, do a recon of the stage and have a general tactic. But if unpredictable things happen you need to adjust the tactic in real time and this is where JV has been bad in the last couple of years.

OK then Rogla wasn't isolated. He was just left alone back in the bunch. And OK then you can't prepare to prevent this exact scenario. In a year and having the best classics team. But you can ride like that on stage 2, 3, 4 and 6 just fine.

Good to know that.

 

[AlfaLum]

This is some pretty extreme racing…

 

[Rackham]

This is some pretty extreme racing…

And for Roglic, it's a sh*t strategy because he's hurt & needs to recuperate as best he can. Just like stage 7 last year (250km stage), which Jumbo & WvA drove at an insane pace & Rog was dropped at the end. That stuff didn't even hurt Pogacar because he has insane recuperation abilities & crushed the field the following day.

More & more we hear "this is good for the team", but what's equally true is what the ds & staff claim is good for Jumbo is also bad for Roglic. Who even drives at a crazy fast pace after their team leader is injured?

Jumbo apparently, year after year.