Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

[Bonimenier]

You're still ignoring the information that it was the team that made the decision that Roglic should leave, while he actually wanted to stay.

The team would say that regardless if it's the truth or not. Who has more reason than the team itself to keep possible problems intern?

 

[Extinction]

You're still ignoring the information that it was the team that made the decision that Roglic should leave, while he actually wanted to stay.

Where do you get this?

 

[RedheadDane]

Where do you get this?

An article on Feltet.dk (translated from a Sporza article).
And the frequent talk about the friendship between Roglic and Vingegaard.

 

[Gargamel35]

Team sport director said live for TV that Roglič was downplaying his injuries so the team wouldn't send him home. When it was clear he can't keep up, team decided to send him home. When they told him, he was against that and not happy at all. JV sport director said all that.

So you say they lied to cover Roglič, because he wanted out and didn't want to support Vinge? Basically you make something up and that is your fact?

 

[CyclistAbi]

Get a grip. There was no backstabbing. Roglic crashed, not because he wasn't taken care of but because he was damned unlucky. Then Vingegaard was the better rider if he wasn't already before and there was no choice but to ride for him.

And I like Roglic a lot more than Vingegaard and hoped that things would come together for him this year but your ridiculous accusations of backstabbing are really tiring.

Rogličes bike was in third position on the team car.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Rogličes bike was in third position on the team car.

At least they kept his bike well protected.

 

[CyclistAbi]

At least they kept his bike well protected.

That too. When the decision needed to be made. Due to team doing a poor job. Roglič was left behind.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Anyway. I don't blame them. That is how you win a Tour.

 

[CyclistAbi]

This team was good to Rogla. But from now on he will have to be vigilant. To avoid the backstab.

Point taken.

 

[Tinnekeisabella]

According to some guys on this board:

• Roglič was prentending he was helping Vinge when in fact he was racing for himself
• Roglič is lying when he is saying he is hurt
• Roglič is pretending to not be able to ride even at the beginning of the stages
• The TJV team is lying when they say he is injured and needs healing
• The team is lying when they say it was their decision for Roglic to abandon

All of the above simultanously...

no, we are about to believe Roglic heroically offered his dream to win the Tour de France for his good friend Jonas. That he knew Jonas would be the actual team leader all along. That he suffered for 8 days as a martyr and was only leaving the race, crying, after he was forced to by the team management.

You believe in fairytales.

This is a hard world. Of course Jumbo will say it was their decision to pull him out.

Is he injured? Yes.

should he then be allowed to pull out if he wishes? of course.

But there is much more to this story. The bike situation before the cobble stage Already showed they were riding for Wout and Jonas in the first place.

This is the one cycling goal of Roglic. To win the Tour. Definetely after what happened in 2020,

Now he is faced with a contract until his likely retirement with a team who will never select him as a team leader in the Tour.

And we all have to believe Primoz is all ok with this? As so many people suggest on twitter: ”ah well he can go for monuments and the Giro for the rest of his career”.

No he does not want that. This is a huge blow for him. He is only human.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Primoz should join UAE for the next season. Together with Tadej they will dismantle the Danish mutant.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

no, we are about to believe Roglic heroically offered his dream to win the Tour de France for his good friend Jonas. That he knew Jonas would be the actual team leader all along. That he suffered for 8 days as a martyr and was only leaving the race, crying, after he was forced to by the team management.

You believe in fairytales.

This is a hard world. Of course Jumbo will say it was their decision to pull him out.

Is he injured? Yes.

should he then be allowed to pull out if he wishes? of course.

But there is much more to this story. The bike situation before the cobble stage Already showed they were riding for Wout and Jonas in the first place.

This is the one cycling goal of Roglic. To win the Tour. Definetely after what happened in 2020,

Now he is faced with a contract until his likely retirement with a team who will never select him as a team leader in the Tour.

And we all have to believe Primoz is all ok with this? As so many people suggest on twitter: ”ah well he can go for monuments and the Giro for the rest of his career”.

No he does not want that. This is a huge blow for him. He is only human.

I don’t disagree with most of this except you’re conflating two things that turns your argument into a straw man. No one is saying that Roglic knew all along he was not a leader and sacrificed his chances; we are saying he knew after stage 5’s crash and time loss that he would not win and needed to work to support Jonas. And he did so quite effectively. Stage 11 was for Jonas, not himself. Other pulls in other stage, same story.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Personally i am determining the situation. That is i am interested with what Rogla is up against. On some future races. On TDF 2022 i believe he accepted the fact it will be him or Jonas. Before the Tour started. He even agreed to sacrifice himself. Knowing he is injured. But said all that i can't overlook the bike position on the team car.

That explains a lot.

Bottom line. I am rather OK if he stays with JV. If he switches teams then what can one do.

I more or less wanted to know what to expect from JV from some future races point of view. On Tour hence he will need to beat both Pogi and Jonas. His team won't sacrifice Jonas to try to gain him an advantage on Pogi. If he wants that he will hence need to make sure he is in such position. For JV to be forced to do that. And at the same time to expect some of the pressure from JV. To give up on his personal ambitions. Likely more then on Jonases side. But the truth is Rogla can still stomp on all that. We'll see.

 

[acm]

no, we are about to believe Roglic heroically offered his dream to win the Tour de France for his good friend Jonas. That he knew Jonas would be the actual team leader all along. That he suffered for 8 days as a martyr and was only leaving the race, crying, after he was forced to by the team management.

You believe in fairytales.

This is a hard world. Of course Jumbo will say it was their decision to pull him out.

Is he injured? Yes.

should he then be allowed to pull out if he wishes? of course.

But there is much more to this story. The bike situation before the cobble stage Already showed they were riding for Wout and Jonas in the first place.

This is the one cycling goal of Roglic. To win the Tour. Definetely after what happened in 2020,

Now he is faced with a contract until his likely retirement with a team who will never select him as a team leader in the Tour.

And we all have to believe Primoz is all ok with this? As so many people suggest on twitter: ”ah well he can go for monuments and the Giro for the rest of his career”.

No he does not want that. This is a huge blow for him. He is only human.

That is just not true. Roglic already said to Jonas he can win Tour last year, but team directors were not keen on it and silenced him. And despite that, Roglic renewed his contract just a few months ago. Moreover this year they spent a lot of time together on races and training camps. And what do you think Roglic is blind and doesn't know how good Jonas is? Nonsense.
No one said that he offered his dream to win TdF to Jonas. Roglic came to TdF to win it, but he crashed. After that he knew that he won't win it, but he wanted to help Jonas. He succeeded, he did everything he could on stage 11. And as it stands now, thanks to Primoz, Jonas will be in yellow on Sunday.

 

[CyclistAbi]

And as they are dad friends they will be able to polish the trophy together. Unless JV will still manage to blew it. In such case next year they all work for Roglič from the get-go.

 

[noob]

Unsubscribed to Horner yesterday when he also was on the Roglic did wrong train. I just cannot stand the tour hyped up as some freakish version of hunger games. There are so much more fun races to watch!

 

[Oldermanish]

I don’t disagree with most of this except you’re conflating two things that turns your argument into a straw man. No one is saying that Roglic knew all along he was not a leader and sacrificed his chances; we are saying he knew after stage 5’s crash and time loss that he would not win and needed to work to support Jonas. And he did so quite effectively. Stage 11 was for Jonas, not himself. Other pulls in other stage, same story.

Well put and I agree totally. Most of the histrionics discussed by others is fodder for Winter projections.

 

[Oldermanish]

Unsubscribed to Horner yesterday when he also was on the Roglic did wrong train. I just cannot stand the tour hyped up as some freakish version of hunger games. There are so much more fun races to watch!

The Old School version of dedicating your last breath for your Tour leader died a long time ago. Riders like Armstrong demonstrated how weasly and manipulative the sport can get. At this point only the lowest paid rider, desperate for a contract would continue to ride and risk further injury. Horner is also one of the last riders to critique Roglic on ethical sport. Horner's good at some observations but seems enamored of the echo in his podcast room.

 

[Rackham]

Everybody needs a little bit of (free) Roglstomp in their lives

If Mikel Landa eventually got his freedom, so can Rogla.

And as they are dad friends they will be able to polish the trophy together. Unless JV will still manage to blew it. In such case next year they all work for Roglič from the get-go.

The whole friends stuff has limits, i.e. you won't see pictures of his teammates at his wedding. Sponsors like a good story & happy riders. I'm not saying it's a total fake, it's just similar to his attitude towards Pogacar, i.e. Roglic is probably a very friendly, amiable & polite person. But people read too much into the 'bromance' between Jonas V & Roglic. Just as they read too much into the bromance with Pogacar prior to 2020 & then the speculated animosity post-2020. Neither existed.

It's simply a case of shaking hands with an opponent (whether you've won or lost, i.e. Pogacar does the same) or when the employer says "co-leaders in the TdF", you do co-leadership. When the employer sends riders on altitude camps, they go. When they invite spouses & family, they chat. Etc.

I mean just look at this bromance between Dumoulin & Roglic in 2020: Dual interview: Primoz Roglic and Tom Dumoulin, Jumbo-Visma's Grand Tour champions - Ride Media

Taking on Ineos Grenadier

Before last year’s Tour, the management of Jumbo-Visma asked Roglic and Kruijswijk their opinion about the possible recruitment of Dumoulin. While Kruijswijk asked for a few days to reflect before offering his opinion, Roglic was immediately enthusiastic.

Roglic: “Yes, I saw this as a unique opportunity to provide the team. Tom is a great cyclist and a nice person. If you want to compete for final victory in the Tour, you need the strongest possible team. Tom is one of the strongest Tour riders of this generation. We need someone like that to compete with Team Ineos’ combination of Chris Froome, Egan Bernal and Geraint Thomas. I think the team made a very good move.”

Roglic loves a strong team! He would have done the exact same tactic he did with Vingegaard with Dumoulin as well, had he been in that situation (& Roglic also always had nice things to say about Dumoulin).

It's just a real b*tch that bale of hay ruined another year of preparation for the TdF so we won't get to find out just how good Roglic could have been in this TdF.

 

[noob]

Everybody needs a little bit of (free) Roglstomp in their lives

If Mikel Landa eventually got his freedom, so can Rogla.



The whole friends stuff has limits, i.e. you won't see pictures of his teammates at his wedding. Sponsors like a good story & happy riders. I'm not saying it's a total fake, it's just similar to his attitude towards Pogacar, i.e. Roglic is probably a very friendly, amiable & polite person. But people read too much into the 'bromance' between Jonas V & Roglic. Just as they read too much into the bromance with Pogacar prior to 2020 & then the speculated animosity post-2020. Neither existed.

It's simply a case of shaking hands with an opponent (whether you've won or lost, i.e. Pogacar does the same) or when the employer says "co-leaders in the TdF", you do co-leadership. When the employer sends riders on altitude camps, they go. When they invite spouses & family, they chat. Etc.

I mean just look at this bromance between Dumoulin & Roglic in 2020: Dual interview: Primoz Roglic and Tom Dumoulin, Jumbo-Visma's Grand Tour champions - Ride Media

Roglic loves a strong team! He would have done the exact same tactic he did with Vingegaard with Dumoulin as well, had he been in that situation (& Roglic also always had nice things to say about Dumoulin).

It's just a real b*tch that bale of hay ruined another year of preparation for the TdF so we won't get to find out just how good Roglic could have been in this TdF.

I once read an excellent portrait of a former domestique (might have been Peiper). He said there was no friends in cycling. He described it as "camraderie". I think that perfectly describes why no teammates on a wedding. I have no illusions about it.

 

[Tinnekeisabella]

That is just not true. Roglic already said to Jonas he can win Tour last year, but team directors were not keen on it and silenced him. And despite that, Roglic renewed his contract just a few months ago. Moreover this year they spent a lot of time together on races and training camps. And what do you think Roglic is blind and doesn't know how good Jonas is? Nonsense.
No one said that he offered his dream to win TdF to Jonas. Roglic came to TdF to win it, but he crashed. After that he knew that he won't win it, but he wanted to help Jonas. He succeeded, he did everything he could on stage 11. And as it stands now, thanks to Primoz, Jonas will be in yellow on Sunday.

Of course he knew there would be a point where Jonas would beat him. We have all seen how good Jonas was last year. Roglic has also said about Tadej before 2020 that he would go on and do great things in grand tours. He had just hoped they would wait until he had at least one Tour win…

Roglic has trained the whole year and sacrificed everything this year for the Tour. The Tour was his main goal of the season.

He knew Jonas was good and of course accepted the joined leadership, but I do believe he was misguided by Jumbo into that.

Jumbo had all the numbers and knew Jonas would be closer to beating Pogi but they did believe it was useful to keep Roglic in the leadership role in case jonas dropped out with an injury or covid or to mislead Pogi and the others.

They were never going to ride for Roglic. The position of the bikes on the team car said it all. There was absolutely no reason why Wout’s bike needed to be ranked first. He had a win at that point and already a pretty good advantage in the green jersey competition. It would not matter if he lost time in GC.

Wout, with all respect for the others, their best non-GC rider, was then assigned to get Jonas as close to Pogi as possible.

Even after the cobble stage, Zeeman repeatedly said they did not counted out Primoz’ chances for GC. Whoever got to crack Pogi would get the advantage and then that would decide the leadership. I firmly believe That was the strategy told to Primoz at stage 11.

Primoz is a class act and he is not hating on Jonas (or Tadej in 2020) but this must hurt him mentally. He must ask himself the same questions as we do. What will this mean for his future?

likely no Tour leadership at Jumbo. And going to another team? What team is better than Jumbo? He still has a contráct.

That combined with an injury.

He is only human.

 

[RedheadDane]

I have definitely seen examples of riders getting married with their teammates attending.

 

[Bonimenier]

I once read an excellent portrait of a former domestique (might have been Peiper). He said there was no friends in cycling. He described it as "camraderie". I think that perfectly describes why no teammates on a wedding. I have no illusions about it.

That's not true necessarily. Just this Tour in the first stage Lampaert was talking about his best friend Declercq in his post race interview. There's definitely friendship between riders in the peloton.

 

[Rackham]

Of course he knew there would be a point where Jonas would beat him. We have all seen how good Jonas was last year. Roglic has also said about Tadej before 2020 that he would go on and do great things in grand tours. He had just hoped they would wait until he had at least one Tour win…

Roglic has trained the whole year and sacrificed everything this year for the Tour. The Tour was his main goal of the season.

He knew Jonas was good and of course accepted the joined leadership, but I do believe he was misguided by Jumbo into that.

Jumbo had all the numbers and knew Jonas would be closer to beating Pogi but they did believe it was useful to keep Roglic in the leadership role in case jonas dropped out with an injury or covid or to mislead Pogi and the others.

They were never going to ride for Roglic. The position of the bikes on the team car said it all. There was absolutely no reason why Wout’s bike needed to be ranked first. He had a win at that point and already a pretty good advantage in the green jersey competition. It would not matter if he lost time in GC.

Wout, with all respect for the others, their best non-GC rider, was then assigned to get Jonas as close to Pogi as possible.

Even after the cobble stage, Zeeman repeatedly said they did not counted out Primoz’ chances for GC. Whoever got to crack Pogi would get the advantage and then that would decide the leadership. I firmly believe That was the strategy told to Primoz at stage 11.

Primoz is a class act and he is not hating on Jonas (or Tadej in 2020) but this must hurt him mentally. He must ask himself the same questions as we do. What will this mean for his future?

likely no Tour leadership at Jumbo. And going to another team? What team is better than Jumbo? He still has a contráct.

That combined with an injury.

He is only human.

I do agree in broad terms with this.

Roglic is a Tour de France fanboy, always was. It'll be pretty much impossible for Jumbo to consign him to a support role next year, i.e. of that, I'm pretty much certain. The tactical situation has also changed entirely with Vingegaard matching Pogacar. This alters the need to have two leaders break Pogacar because from a Roglic point of view, Vingegaaard is now just as much an obstacle as Pogacar. If he wants to win the TdF, he has to go right through both of them. I mean following that pre-Tour Jumbo logic, he really might as well join UAE & team-up with Pog (as Krzysztof hilariously suggested) considering how ominously invincible Vingegaard now looks.

He'll basically need to find the motivation, somehow, somewhere & the team situation which allows him to fulfil this objective. Whether at Jumbo or elsewhere. I think this is pretty much universal in all teams & with regards to all athletes, i.e. Roglic is a winner & as such he'll try to win until he no longer can.

Beyond that once the race is underway he does what his employer tells him to do, as we all do.

I have definitely seen examples of riders getting married with their teammates attending.

One of my favorite super awkward cycling moments was in last year's Vuelta when Fabio Jakobsen scolded Florian Sénéchal after he won a stage because he dropped Jakobsen just before the finish: Jakobsen to Sénéchal: "If you don't look back, you're not a lead-out for me" | Vuelta - Archyworldys

Considering the role Sénéchal played during the Jakobsen Poland accident situation, ouch.

In my opinion cycling has a tendency to be the equivalent of reality TV, i.e. where people get really invested in the rivalries & camaraderie. But behind all that is a sponsor, a boss & real people with real problems & differences, i.e. 90% of which we never see.

 

[RedheadDane]

One of my favorite super awkward cycling moments was in last year's Vuelta when Fabio Jakobsen scolded Florian Sénéchal after he won a stage because he dropped Jakobsen just before the finish: Jakobsen to Sénéchal: "If you don't look back, you're not a lead-out for me" | Vuelta - Archyworldys

Considering the role Sénéchal played during the Jakobsen Poland accident situation, ouch.

That was likely just an example of adrenaline running high after a stage, resulting in stupid things being said.
Even friends argue sometimes...