Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

[MTV]

That is what all 3 angles and thus the facts show yes.

No.

 

[SHAD0W93]

No.

If Roglic was hit beforehand, his elbow wouldn’t be behind Wright’s at the point of impact. And the point of impact happened when all 3 angles show Rolgic leaving his line.

 

[MTV]

If Roglic was hit beforehand, his elbow wouldn’t be behind Wright’s at the point of impact. And the point of impact happened when all 3 angles show Rolgic leaving his line.

No. The impact was before the moment Wright was a bit ahead where or when they were aligned and it is the reason for Roglič leaving his line and his fall - try with a toy car - push it and then "touch" it to the middle from the right? Did it turn to left? Or right?

 

[SHAD0W93]

No. The impact was before the moment Wright was a bit ahead where or when they were aligned and it is the reason for Roglič leaving his line and his fall - try with a toy car - push it and then "touch" it to the middle from the right? Did it turn to left? Or right?

Except Roglic wouldn’t be coming in at the angle shown in the second video if he got hit on his side beforehand nor would he have had control of his bike like he did before the impact into Wright’s elbow.

 

[RedheadDane]

I've watched that gif-video a couple of times, and I still don't see anything that suggest Wright was riding dangerously.
But I'm assuming that if Roglic's and Wright's positions have been swapped - just their physical positions, not their roles in the GC, on the stage, or anything - and Wright had been the one to crash out, then people would have been up in arms about dangerously Roglic had been riding.
Because, it sure seems to me like some people are mostly taking issue with Wright's riding because he's the lower ranked rider.

 

[topcat]

3 time gt winner who feels marginalised by his team and is desperate to save his season pulls a wrong move in the vuelta and ends up out of the race. Nibali 2015, Roglic 2022.
Roglic should just say sorry to Wright and come back at his best next year.

 

[Bonimenier]

Slow motion:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1568927383654400007

If you believe this is proof Wright, and not Roglic was in fault, you need to go check your eyes asap.

 

[Miha81]

I don't know but he seems to be reading a biography of a skier or something...?

You are right. Mountaineer, skier and trail runner Kilian Jornet.

 

[Red Rick]

After the last about 20 thread pages I'm probably more concussed than Roglic after his crash

 

[RedheadDane]

After the last about 20 thread pages I'm probably more concussed than Roglic after his crash

Next time, place a pillow on your table first.

 

[Oldermanish]

No. The impact was before the moment Wright was a bit ahead where or when they were aligned and it is the reason for Roglič leaving his line and his fall - try with a toy car - push it and then "touch" it to the middle from the right? Did it turn to left? Or right?

Here's a nugget for you to add to the strange perception that Primoz made contact earlier than everyone else interprets from all photos: Primoz left the front, assumed a new line and then crossed into another rider. He gets relegated whether he hit him in the nose or the as*. You can't use any part of your body to force into a line that you don't occupy. Fred was holding his.

 

[King Boonen]

Slow motion:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1568927383654400007

I too enjoy cutting videos so short that it looks like someone riding out of the saddle is moving to the side rather than riding in a straight line. No one would ever see through this at all...

 

[stonerider]

All this Roglic talk...everyone seems to forget that he'll be 33 this year. He's on the way down. Yes he will still have good days on the bike but if he ever expects to win another grand tour then everything, and I mean everything (training, diet, preparation, no crashes, etc.), will have to go perfect.

 

[DoYouEvenRideBruh]

Bike speaks for itself.

Was the bike powered by an engine though?

 

[red_flanders]

If you believe this is proof Wright, and not Roglic was in fault, you need to go check your eyes asap.

I wonder if the eyes are the problem. There’s no rational case for taking Roglič’s side here. He clearly and unequivocally moved off his line into Wright.

It seems to be a case study in power of the media and how people wishing things to be true can convince themselves of a thing.

The only person who robbed us of a potentially more exciting finish to the Vuelta is Roglič.

 

[Volderke]

Slow motion:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1568927383654400007

I fear your slow motion is irrelevant, as it only shows the inevitable consequence of the faults Roglic made before.

Lets just look at it from the front, as that is really all there is to it.

View: https://youtu.be/xBajT-OXc9o?t=357


I start at the moment Roglic comes off the front, and Roglic is near the left barriers. We are less than 200 meters to go and both the line of 4, and Roglic, are sprinting out of the saddle.

I mention 200 meters and sprinting, as that's important here because there is a rule that can be applied to this situation:
Rule 2.3.036: Riders shall be strictly forbidden to deviate from the lane they selected when launching into the sprint and, in so doing, endangering others.

Please note that in any other circumstance (not sprinting, further from the line,...) Roglic' move was as much irregular, but those moves happen a lot: a rider tries to slot in, and either you give way or you shoulder bump for the wheel... But the rider trying to steal the weel, is always the riders that does the manoeuvering, and is responsible / guilty when something happens like a crash.

Now we go back to the situation in the clip, and I ask you to ignore Pedersen, Ackermann and Van Poppel as they aren't involved in the crash.
For simplicity, consider it a 2-men sprint and play the video twice, first following Wright, then following Roglic.

Wright, if anything, moves a bit more to the right during his sprint (away from Roglic, so Wright does nothing at all to hinder Roglic).
Roglic deviates at a speed of approx. 1 meter per second to the right, until he is at the dashed line, but totally oblivious for Wright next to him, he proceeds to move even more to the right.

You couldn't have a more clear violation of rule 2.3.036 by Roglic, with our without realizing there was a rider passing him. And if Roglic hasn't seen Wright coming, it is the very reason why the rule was made: to prevent sprinters from doing dangerous things, they have to keep their line.

And the fact that Wright passed Roglic, is the best proof that Wright still had some space to continue following his line, probably not expecting Roglic to go into full suicide mode by continuing his line deviation.

ps: this will be my last post on this matter. Whoever disagrees with me, can get a Roglstomp.

 

[saunaking]

omg i cannot believe there is still debate over this..

Are there any pro cyclists that have expressed their opinion on this? That are not on JV or TBV?

the only one i have heard is Larry Warbasse say on the cycling podcast that Fred W did nothing wrong (and its basically Primoz' fault)

 

[bNator]

omg i cannot believe there is still debate over this..

Are there any pro cyclists that have expressed their opinion on this? That are not on JV or TBV?

the only one i have heard is Larry Warbasse say on the cycling podcast that Fred W did nothing wrong (and its basically Primoz' fault)

I think this chat is pretty much conclusive on the topic of who’s fault is the crash. There is no 100% majority but it’s as close as we’re gonna get.

I think Roglic got the message - the backlash surely reached him even though he’s pretending to just be reading a book. As a Roglic fan I wish the dust will have settled sooner rather than later so we/he can continue focusing on the actual racing. I hope this was just a momentary lapse of reason and not an indicator his frustrations really got to him this time…

 

[acm]

I think Roglic got the message - the backlash surely reached him even though he’s pretending to just be reading a book. As a Roglic fan I wish the dust will have settled sooner rather than later so we/he can continue focusing on the actual racing. I hope this was just a momentary lapse of reason and not an indicator his frustrations really got to him this time…

I don't think he really cares about all that twitter drama. He just expressed his opinion and that's it. And with all the support on his instagram, it seems people have already forgotten about that. Maybe this forum should do that too and move on already.

 

[ontheroad]

I wouldn't pass too much remarks of the release of PR statements which is all just media content which fans tend to lap up. The very fact that one single incident has generated multiple pages of toing and froing on this forum is proof that it works. Unusually, Roglic would appear to have cast himself into the villain mode this time with the release of that statement. For a team that puts such an emphasis on PR, I can't believe that Jumbo won't have anticipated such a reaction to the statement. Perhaps Roglic himself simply felt slighted that Wright didn't give way but otherwise he hasn't got a leg to stand on in terms of shifting blame. Wright done nothing wrong unless you actually believe that he should have ceded his line to allow a GC rider take Van Poppels wheel.

At the time of the crash I thought it was such a pity for the race that the GC contest was effectively decided in that moment after Roglic had buried himself to get back into the GC race to make it competitive. I think it was the combination of Roglic's physical and mental wounds from a GC season defined by 2 crashes and poor judgement/advice by Jumbo, that led to the release of a statement which is based on emotion rather than facts.

 

[Red Rick]

I wouldn't pass too much remarks of the release of PR statements which is all just media content which fans tend to lap up. The very fact that one single incident has generated multiple pages of toing and froing on this forum is proof that it works. Unusually, Roglic would appear to have cast himself into the villain mode this time with the release of that statement. For a team that puts such an emphasis on PR, I can't believe that Jumbo won't have anticipated such a reaction to the statement. Perhaps Roglic himself simply felt slighted that Wright didn't give way but otherwise he hasn't got a leg to stand on in terms of shifting blame. Wright done nothing wrong unless you actually believe that he should have ceded his line to allow a GC rider take Van Poppels wheel.

At the time of the crash I thought it was such a pity for the race that the GC contest was effectively decided in that moment after Roglic had buried himself to get back into the GC race to make it competitive. I think it was the combination of Roglic's physical and mental wounds from a GC season defined by 2 crashes and poor judgement/advice by Jumbo, that led to the release of a statement which is based on emotion rather than facts.

I think Roglic was probably fuming, and Jumbo decided to back him wanting to release some sort of statement because they thought reception would be much more split. I don't doubt Colbrelli still plays on his mind.

I think it's very understandable on Roglic' side that at some point the levee breaks, but it's very unfortunate/dumb for him that it's the one crash that's so obviously his own mistake.

 

[rokovski]

I dont know if this video is already posted.
There you can see how Wright pushed with knee and after that Rogličs bike changed direction into Wright and crashed.

View: https://youtu.be/Tz4ZoDrjsqE

 

[Oldermanish]

I dont know if this video is already posted.
There you can see how Wright pushed with knee and after that Rogličs bike changed direction into Wright and crashed.

View: https://youtu.be/Tz4ZoDrjsqE

I see Wright stop pedaling and move to the right as Primoz gets tangled with him. That big of good bike handling prevented him from being part of the carnage. So, again: Primoz would be relegated for changing lanes....

 

[Kwibus]

I see Wright stop pedaling and move to the right as Primoz gets tangled with him. That big of good bike handling prevented him from being part of the carnage. So, again: Primoz would be relegated for changing lanes....

I don't agree. This is the first clip where it really seems that Wright shoulders into Roglic. At this point it looks like Roglic is moving in a straight line, allthough he first came to the right side of the road far too hard which still makes me think that it all started by his own actions, but after watching this clip it does seem that Wright gives him a bump.
Still this might be because he felt he was getting closed into the barriers which is understandable as well.

Roglic shouldn't have come from the left side of the road to the right in 1 big swing like he did. He could've done that, but he should've left more space and not try to squeeze himself in between.

 

[Elos Anjos]

The first symptom of sports in digital age is massive acessibility to footage, pictures and angles about any givn event. Accidents and crashes in cycling are thoroughly analysed by fans in search for the truth about what happened.

This thread has now more replies even if Primoz won the Vuelta.

Never in a moment one recalls that only Primoz and Wright were directly involved. They have an inside view that can never be fathomed by footage alone. Armchair analysts often forget that they are getting second hand descriptions about events they never experienced. And that inside knowledge gap matters. Roglic and Wright are the reality that pictures and footage only roughly depict.

I therefore believe that is much more likely that a human being and athlete like Primoz that always was classy and fair in victories, defeats and crashes would't suddenly change its demeanor and say such things out of spite in a statement if he didn't have strong reasons to know that he was put out of the game by Wright.