Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

[Extinction]

I’m amazed about all the criticism and negative comments regarding Roglic’s statement from his so-called fans, accusing him of doing wrong.
I 100% agree with @CyclistAby, @Rackham, and a few others that Primoz had to stand up for himself, finally. We never heard a word of complaint from him on any occasion of his many bad moments. He always took the blame on himself or simply didn’t comment. It was about time for him to finally speak up. His statement was not about whose fault it was in this accident. It was about respect and safety in cycling which are both lacking heavily in the latest years, especially among younger riders. Primoz’s statement was backed by the team’s director Plugge who pointed exactly to the issue of safety. This is the real problem that should be discussed. Not just on the internet forums, but first and foremost in professional cycling circles, starting with UCI, teams, riders, and journalists as public opinion makers. In particular, the latest have the responsibility to report and evaluate objectively. It is not their right to judge and draw conclusions. Which was exactly what they did in the case of Primoz’s statement. They took it out of context exposing he blamed Wright for the accident. Which was not the real point of TJV’s statement. I bet a few of you, if any, have read the original statement on TJV’s website. If you had, you’d understand what this entire statement was about. So, the point here is not WHO caused the accident but WHY it happened. And the answer is because of reckless riding and lack of respect of a young rider toward a GC contender. That’s why I back Primoz and TJV at 100%. It’s about time they start talking about the real causes of safety issues in cycling if we don’t want to discuss someone’s death anytime in the future.

You only speak up, though, when you have a point. In this case, however, Whight did nothing wrong and complaining unjustly cast him in a bad light. And this after no complaint was made with the race jury at the time, which was the time to do so. That JV didn't simply means there was no case, otherwise they would have. And this is confirmed by the fact that the race jury didn't relogate or eject Wright. So your commentary makes no sense.

 

[Carrick-On-Seine]

I’m amazed about all the criticism and negative comments regarding Roglic’s statement from his so-called fans, accusing him of doing wrong.
I 100% agree with @CyclistAby, @Rackham, and a few others that Primoz had to stand up for himself, finally. We never heard a word of complaint from him on any occasion of his many bad moments. He always took the blame on himself or simply didn’t comment. It was about time for him to finally speak up. His statement was not about whose fault it was in this accident. It was about respect and safety in cycling which are both lacking heavily in the latest years, especially among younger riders. Primoz’s statement was backed by the team’s director Plugge who pointed exactly to the issue of safety. This is the real problem that should be discussed. Not just on the internet forums, but first and foremost in professional cycling circles, starting with UCI, teams, riders, and journalists as public opinion makers. In particular, the latest have the responsibility to report and evaluate objectively. It is not their right to judge and draw conclusions. Which was exactly what they did in the case of Primoz’s statement. They took it out of context exposing he blamed Wright for the accident. Which was not the real point of TJV’s statement. I bet a few of you, if any, have read the original statement on TJV’s website. If you had, you’d understand what this entire statement was about. So, the point here is not WHO caused the accident but WHY it happened. And the answer is because of reckless riding and lack of respect of a young rider toward a GC contender. That’s why I back Primoz and TJV at 100%. It’s about time they start talking about the real causes of safety issues in cycling if we don’t want to discuss someone’s death anytime in the future.

I read it on Friday. Why did they lead with Primoz’s statement and then have Plugge’s quotes at the end? If it’s about rider safety start with that and then use the rider’s quotes as an illustration.
The article left itself wide open to be taken out of context.

 

[SunnyDay]

As I said, the fault was not an issue here. It was dangerous riding. You don’t push forward if you have nowhere to go except into the other rider. As Plugge said, use your brain and your breaks’’. This is the point of the statement.

 

[BR2]

As I said, the fault was not an issue here. It was dangerous riding. You don’t push forward if you have nowhere to go except into the other rider. As Plugge said, use your brain and your breaks’’. This is the point of the statement.

Use your brain and your brakes, in this case you being Roglic.
Rackham and CyclistAbi are just diehard Roglic fans and obviously so are you.

 

[EliseeReclus]

I’m amazed about all the criticism and negative comments regarding Roglic’s statement from his so-called fans, accusing him of doing wrong.
I 100% agree with @CyclistAby, @Rackham, and a few others that Primoz had to stand up for himself, finally. We never heard a word of complaint from him on any occasion of his many bad moments. He always took the blame on himself or simply didn’t comment. It was about time for him to finally speak up. His statement was not about whose fault it was in this accident. It was about respect and safety in cycling which are both lacking heavily in the latest years, especially among younger riders. Primoz’s statement was backed by the team’s director Plugge who pointed exactly to the issue of safety. This is the real problem that should be discussed. Not just on the internet forums, but first and foremost in professional cycling circles, starting with UCI, teams, riders, and journalists as public opinion makers. In particular, the latest have the responsibility to report and evaluate objectively. It is not their right to judge and draw conclusions. Which was exactly what they did in the case of Primoz’s statement. They took it out of context exposing he blamed Wright for the accident. Which was not the real point of TJV’s statement. I bet a few of you, if any, have read the original statement on TJV’s website. If you had, you’d understand what this entire statement was about. So, the point here is not WHO caused the accident but WHY it happened. And the answer is because of reckless riding and lack of respect of a young rider toward a GC contender. That’s why I back Primoz and TJV at 100%. It’s about time they start talking about the real causes of safety issues in cycling if we don’t want to discuss someone’s death anytime in the future.

Even if you take the whole statement and agree with everything Roglic and Plugge say it doesn't make sense. Towards the end Plugge says this:

"Ten years ago, the older riders were sounding the alarm because the younger ones showed less respect, took irresponsible risks, and pushed their way through everything. The younger ones of yesteryear are the older riders of today. But you still hear the same discussion, even though we are a generation ahead."

If you agree with this statement and the sentiment (I don't FWIW) then surely the older riders now - who were the younger riders taking risks etc ten years ago - should expect the current younger riders to behave like they did in the past, and Roglic should not have expected Wright to cede his position. It is not an effective way of protecting rider safety to wish for some unwritten rule that young riders should not take the same risks or have the same opportunity as older riders. The riders (all!) deserve some consistency and fairness.

 

[Extinction]

As I said, the fault was not an issue here. It was dangerous riding. You don’t push forward if you have nowhere to go except into the other rider. As Plugge said, use your brain and your breaks’’. This is the point of the statement.

Nonesence, Whight had his lane and momentum, when Rog senselessly veered right into him. Thus the only dangerous riding was Roglic and, had Whight gone down, would surely have been relogated.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

As I said, the fault was not an issue here. It was dangerous riding. You don’t push forward if you have nowhere to go except into the other rider. As Plugge said, use your brain and your breaks’’. This is the point of the statement.

But the problem here is, that a lot of people don't think that Wright had nowhere to go but into Roglič. Yes, it's true that Roglič doesn't have eyes at the back of his head, but that doesn't exempt him from using the ones he has at the front of it, which it seems he could have done a better job of this time around.

Also you can easily be a fan of riders without having to agree with everything they do or say. I was and still am a big fan of Samuel Sánchez, but his defense of Lance Armstrong during a 2012 Tour of Beijing interview is one of the most stupid things I've ever read.

 

[SunnyDay]

All who replied to me with the same nonsense that I can read everywhere since last Friday, obviously didn’t get the point of my post. So, no further discussion here is in place. I have no intention of convincing the convinced. I just pointed out the real intent of that statement. If this is too difficult to understand, it’s not my problem.

 

[RedheadDane]

It is not an effective way of protecting rider safety to wish for some unwritten rule that young riders should not take the same risks or have the same opportunity as older riders. The riders (all!) deserve some consistency and fairness.

This. I loathe the "young/less experienced riders should always be the ones showing to respect to their elders/more experienced riders!" Compare and contrast that mentality with Dowsett's reaction to a situation in PNDKR:

Britisk profil om voldsom episode: Det var l... | Feltet.dk

Instagram post in article.

 

[jmdirt]

As I said, the fault was not an issue here. It was dangerous riding. You don’t push forward if you have nowhere to go except into the other rider. As Plugge said, use your brain and your breaks’’. This is the point of the statement.

If dangerous riding is their concern, they should have been apologizing, not blaming.

 

[Volderke]

All who replied to me with the same nonsense that I can read everywhere since last Friday, obviously didn’t get the point of my post. So, no further discussion here is in place. I have no intention of convincing the convinced. I just pointed out the real intent of that statement. If this is too difficult to understand, it’s not my problem.

The "point of your post" is NOT how 99% (based on twitter and this forum) interpreted the JV statement (I read it ofcourse, and linked it in this topic).

If the JV statement needs pages of explanation and straw man's arguments to force us to understand how it should be interpreted, it's simply not a very good statement and should never have been published the way it is now.

The timing (days after the crash), specific but baseless accusation of one rider (Wright) and examples given about rider's safety (Roglic vs. Wright, Groenewegen vs. Jakobsen, both of them featuring a JV rider deviating from their lines and endangering another rider) are all cringeworthy, reflect poor on the whole JV team and on the magnificent rider that Roglic is and hopefully will be in the future.

 

[zlev11]

I'm no Roglic fan but I didn't realise the Mader incident was a big deal; it was a stage race and there were bonus seconds at the line so at the time I thought "fair enough".

a big deal was made about it by fans on twitter who just follow cycling so they can post memes. you dont give a win away unless you get something for yourself in return, otherwise you will never get any favors. a few weeks later at Pais Vasco, David Gaudu, with PN stage 7 fresh in mind, took pulls with Roglic in the front group to help him win the overall and in return Roglic gave him the stage win.

 

[EliseeReclus]

you dont give a win away unless you get something for yourself in return

So why should Fred Wright be expected to give away the chance of a win while getting nothing in return?

 

[zlev11]

So why should Fred Wright be expected to give away the chance of a win while getting nothing in return?

he had exactly zero chance of outsprinting any one of Pederson, Van Poppel or Ackermann much less all 3 at once lmao

 

[EliseeReclus]

he had exactly zero chance of outsprinting any one of Pederson, Van Poppel or Ackermann much less all 3 at once lmao

By that logic Roglic had no chance to outsprint them either, so what was the point in him trying to barge in?

 

[SHAD0W93]

By that logic Roglic had no chance to outsprint them either, so what was the point in him trying to barge in?

But you see the point they’re trying to make is all four of the riders shouldn’t have been sprinting against Rolgic and to let him win as a way to show respect.

 

[EliseeReclus]

he had exactly zero chance of outsprinting any one of Pederson, Van Poppel or Ackermann much less all 3 at once lmao

Also, Wright had already finished ahead of Ackermann (stage 11) and Van Poppel (Stage 13) in bunch sprints in this Vuelta.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

You guys are still into this huh?

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Mohoric: "We know that Primoz crashes a lot."

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/mohoric-defends-teammate-fred-wright-after-roglic-crash-accusations/

^ Paywall, unfortunately.

 

[Oldermanish]

By that logic Roglic had no chance to outsprint them either, so what was the point in him trying to barge in?

Roglic wasn't trying to barge in on purpose....he didn't pay attention to the number in the break and crossed up when he got to Fred, IMO. How he reacted to Fred being there was pure Cat 4 riding. As for a point? He needed to tag on to the small group to get lead time as the gap to the field was significant enough to make that important.
If he'd managed it without crashing and then, separately, Remco had been judged farther back in the pack he could have a 8-40 second gain in position. Something to play for.

 

[Netserk]

Mohoric: "We know that Primoz crashes a lot."

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/mohoric-defends-teammate-fred-wright-after-roglic-crash-accusations/

^ Paywall, unfortunately.

Fake paywall. Easy to climb over.

 

[bNator]

Fake paywall. Easy to climb over.

sshhhh! Keep it private

 

[EliseeReclus]

Roglic wasn't trying to barge in on purpose....he didn't pay attention to the number in the break and crossed up when he got to Fred, IMO. How he reacted to Fred being there was pure Cat 4 riding. As for a point? He needed to tag on to the small group to get lead time as the gap to the field was significant enough to make that important.
If he'd managed it without crashing and then, separately, Remco had been judged farther back in the pack he could have a 8-40 second gain in position. Something to play for.

I pretty much agree 100% with that, the problem is that if you accept that it means accepting that a) Roglic made a mistake and caused his own crash; and b) that he was wrong to put out the statement; and I think there are a few people here who aren't quite ready to accept that yet.

 

[Netserk]

sshhhh! Keep it private

It's actually quite funny that it is easy to bypass most American and British paywalls but few Danish ones.

 

[Red Rick]

Mohoric: "We know that Primoz crashes a lot."

Thinly veiled comment implying every crash could be his fault.

Pretty nasty tbh.