Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

[jmdirt]

I watched a lot of videos and read a lot of responses on this subject. But ultimately it comes down to what people involved said. What Primož said is:



Then i read the response from Bahrain. They are not disputing the claim Roglič made. They are saying it was a racing incident and for them ultimately it comes down to:



Hence for Bahrain as long as the sprinter doesn't deviate from his line he can pretty much do anything. Hence as Wright didn't deviate from his line. For them it doesn't matter if he came from behind and rode the handlebars out of Rogličes hands.

In this very thread we had a few attempts. Where only a frame out of the whole video was provided. Trying to prove some point. Based on that frame one could believe such claims. On the other hand a couple of full videos involving the accident were provided. Not only one frame. And in my opinion and based on that videos i feel it is safe to say Wright came from behind and rode the handlebars out of Rogličes hands.

On why it is important and long over due. For Roglič to speak out. If you ride 40 km/h and someone throws a hay bale in front of you. You crash. If you ride 50 km/h and in a split second you move a couple of meters to the side. You crash. If you ride 60 km/h and in a split second somebody comes from behind and rides the handlebars out of your hands. You crash.

This has nothing to do with bike handling skills. Now as for hay bale. ASO didn't need to stand behind a hay bale. As for the other two accidents. Regardless of who stands behind who. There where always two cyclist involved. And in both cases the fault was always narrated towards Roglič. And his supposedly bad bike handling skills. Roglič never speaking about it only further cemented spreading that as facts. Roglič body checked himself, Roglič rode the handlebars out of Roglič ... Sure. Both accidents happened due to too aggressive Bahrain sprinters. That was the main cause. Next time back off. There are always two options available.

Bottom line i am fully behind you on this one Roglič. It was long overdue.

I disagree with the assertion of taking the word of those involved because in the heat of completion, people frequently don't really know what happened.

I also disagree with the assertion that FW came from behind. If you watch any of the videos (and even piece them together with the stills) you can't come to that conclusion. Its really this simple: Rog was leading a five man line, he pulled off and started going backwards, he tried to barge back into the line, and went down.

How can you, with a straight face, say that Rog had the right to barge back into a line of four riders?

 

[Ripper]

This isn't a traffic rule. Wright wasn't squeezing. He was riding a straight line along the barriers and something came closer and closer and touched his left side.


The main question is: did anyone in the JV PR / marketing department get a concussion as well


Ofcourse they are not disputing Roglic wild claims. They stay diplomatic. JV could learn a thing or 2 with the Bahrain statement.



Well, not only for them, but for the whole of cycling it doesn't matter if Wright came from behind (again: it doesn't matter if Wright was behind or in front, try to get that for a moment: it's not downhill skiing). What does matter is that Roglic can't just do pretty much anything: he deviated from his line, and the more I think about it, the more I believe he didn't see Wright and was only focused on Van Poppel's back wheel. So he made the poor judgment that Van Poppel was last of the group and tried to slot in behind him (note that Roglic was pulling from the climb and most likely didn't have a clue how many riders where in his wheel). He just didn't see Wright (while in a video still you could see he was looking right to see where he could slot in). And that alone is a stupid mistake (one of not looking before you make a manouver). This isn't a TTT where a team mate is going to give you space to slot in. It's a line of riders starting a sprint and if they don't allow you to slot in, you go to the back. The moment Roglic deviates and tries to slot in, is the moment he's responsible for his actions and crash.

As in many cases, the outcome of the incident determines the opinion. Roglic crashed, so those supporting him, feel Wright is partly to blame. If Roglic had just a bit more stability and made Wright crash into the barriers, the outcome could have been similar to Groenewegen / Jakobsen. Those that defend Roglic here: do they also defend Groenewegen's move to the right as Jakobsen came from behind? I don't think so...


The unfortunate thing is that Roglic grabs the wrong example to make his point. The hay bale was indeed an incident where rider's safety was stupidly disregarded by the organiser. I didn't see a big statement on the JV site back then, while it was the perfect opportunity. The Colbrelli incident was a far better example of Colbrelli disregarding a fellow riders'safety. But don't throw this self-caused crash into the equation.: your 'next time back off' argument is as much as blaming the victim, which in this case is Wright, as he's a victim of a rider swerving into him and was lucky to stay upright. This really isn't about Roglic and him always getting the blame for poor riding.

Really nailed this bolded paragraph!

 

[bNator]

If this is your position, even if it didn't seem so at the time, then I owe you an apology.

No need for apologies… Let’s all just keep it civil and we’re good.

 

[ooo]

same video up close

 

[Oldermanish]

same video up close

Wright's hip and bottom bracket ahead of a rider barging in.....as others have noted: should Wright have crashed as a consequence of the contact the rider making the aggressive contact would be relegated. That's a real rule, fans.

 

[Oldermanish]

Now that Remco finished his first GT win let's hope Primoz can congratulate him and we can move on. Primoz has the will to do more great things.

 

[yaco]

Just as well, Remco won the Vuelta or the Roglic thread soon could be bigger than the Remco thread.

 

[Lequack]

So now that you guys hate Roglic, who will you be supporting as your favorite rider from now on?

 

[JosefK]

So now that you guys hate Roglic, who will you be supporting as your favorite rider from now on?

I still love old Rog. One cantankerous rant won't dispel that. I think it's possible his best days as a rider may have passed (hopefully not). But there are other great riders to cheer for. Anyone who rides with courage and panache is worthy.

 

[SHAD0W93]

So now that you guys hate Roglic, who will you be supporting as your favorite rider from now on?

My ol’ reliable.

 

[Eeslliw]

I still love old Rog. One cantankerous rant won't dispel that. I think it's possible his best days as a rider may have passed (hopefully not). But there are other great riders to cheer for. Anyone who rides with courage and panache is worthy.

I love new Rog. He doesn't give a sh*t anymore. You think Mader stuff was "bad"? Wait for next season. Won't be boring that is for sure.

 

[RedheadDane]

So now that you guys hate Roglic, who will you be supporting as your favorite rider from now on?

I still like him well enough. Doesn't mean I can't think he's in the wrong.

 

[red_flanders]

...

Now that Remco finished his first GT win let's hope Primoz can congratulate him and we can move on. Primoz has the will to do more great things.

I don’t know why he wouldn’t. His crash had nothing to do with Remco, and Remco was clearly the better rider in the race. He’s always (up to yesterday) been a great sportsman. I would very much expect that to continue.

 

[acm]

I love new Rog. He doesn't give a sh*t anymore. You think Mader stuff was "bad"? Wait for next season. Won't be boring that is for sure.

Exactly. He was too nice and now it's time to bring back Roglic from Vuelta 2020 and PN 2021. I miss that killer look, no gifts anymore.

 

[bNator]

So now that you guys hate Roglic, who will you be supporting as your favorite rider from now on?

I already opportunistically flirted with the possibility of supporting Pogacar this TDF after Rogla was out. His underdog status surely helped a lot Though as soon as Rogla was back on the bike he reminded me who I’m really rooting for. I’m sure it‘s going to be the same next time around.

Although this time around it really does feel it was a bit too much for him to handle, doesn’t it? I’m struggling to imagine he’s going to return really strong and it wouldn’t even surprise me that much if he quit, TBH… The “This is not the way I want the sport to continue” part of his unfortunate statement could be an indicator?

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

So now that you guys hate Roglic, who will you be supporting as your favorite rider from now on?

Same as before. Moscon.

 

[acm]

Although this time around it really does feel it was a bit too much for him to handle, doesn’t it? I’m struggling to imagine he’s going to return really strong and it wouldn’t even surprise me that much if he quit, TBH… The “This is not the way I want the sport to continue” part of his unfortunate statement could be an indicator?

It reminds me of Martin and Dumoulin and their words... but I don't even want to think about that. He can still win so many races.

 

[jmdirt]

So now that you guys hate Roglic, who will you be supporting as your favorite rider from now on?

Lequack, I know that your comment is tongue in cheek, but it does bring up the stance that a few people in this conversation are taking the "if you think that Rog did something wrong you hate him" stance.

-He made a bad move when he was cross-eyed at the end of a hard day.
-My opinion of him has not changed.
-I like the way that he races.
-I wanted him to keep attempting to win the VaE.
-I think that his statement was pointless because there was nothing to gain from it, but that doesn't change how I view him as a racer.

 

[topcat]

Where's johnymax?

 

[QueenStagiaire]

Where's johnymax?

He commented yesterday, but it‘s already eleven pages deep in the swamp that is this thread.

 

[johnymax]

Where's johnymax?

I still love Rogla. He has more big wins in him, you'll see.

 

[topcat]

I still love Rogla. He has more big wins in him, you'll see.

I don't doubt it.
I missed you in the quagmire. Any chance you could talk some sense into the others?

 

[CyclistAbi]

Thanks for posting this video. And now reading again what Roglič said:

The crash was not caused by a bad road or a lack of safety but by a rider's behaviour. I don't have eyes on my back. Otherwise, I would have run wide. Wright came from behind and rode the handlebars out of my hands before I knew it."

Wright was coming from behind. Roglič didn't see him. As he doesn't have eyes on his back. While passing Roglič he rode the handlebars out of his hand. Just look at the distance on the road and the time it took. Maybe two meters and around a second. For it all to happen. On top of that Wright could observe for a couple of seconds. On what Roglič was doing. He knew Roglič will cut him off. Instead of pressing on the brakes he rode through aggressively. Just look at the moment of the contact. Wright was expecting the impact. He was prepared for it.

Hence if Roglič could be blamed for not seeing Wright. Wright was still riding too aggressive. As the rider coming from behind. He should press on the brakes and save the situation. Instead of pushing through aggressively and regardless of the outcome.

And lets not forget. This was strike two. One of the Bahrain sprinters already caused Roglič to abandon a GT race. Due to being too aggressive and causing Roglič to crash. At that time Roglič kept silent. And what good did that do him.

Now lets see if there will be a hero. That won't press on the brakes next time. When in similar situation involving Roglič.

As for the team backing Primož on this. In my opinion this is a good sign. For Jumbo Visma upper management to still put themself on the line like that. For Primož.

And for the people still claiming. No it was all Primož. You were feed this narrative for way too long. It needed a response.

Said all that i will go with Fred on this. It was a racing incident. Hence it's 50:50. Still it was needles incident and next time use brakes. You can still use the rider ahead as a lead out or to pass him on the other side. Or complain after the race you couldn't sprint as the rider blocked you. And he should improve in this regards. For that not to happen in the future. Instead of crashing yourself or the other one or both.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Thanks for posting this video. And now reading again what Roglič said:



Wright was coming from behind. Roglič didn't see him. As he doesn't have eyes on his back. While passing Roglič he rode the handlebars out of his hand. Just look at the distance on the road and the time it took. Maybe two meters and around a second. For it all to happen. On top of that Wright could observe for a couple of seconds. On what Roglič was doing. He knew Roglič will cut him off. Instead of pressing on the brakes he rode through aggressively. Just look at the moment of the contact. Wright was expecting the impact. He was prepared for it.

Hence if Roglič could be blamed for not seeing Wright. Wright was still riding too aggressive. As the rider coming from behind. He should press on the brakes and save the situation. Instead of pushing through aggressively and regardless of the outcome.

And lets not forget. This was strike two. One of the Bahrain sprinters already caused Roglič to abandon a GT race. Due to being too aggressive and causing Roglič to crash. At that time Roglič kept silent. And what good did that do him.

Now lets see if there will be a hero. That won't press on the brakes next time. When in similar situation involving Roglič.

As for the team backing Primož on this. In my opinion this is a good sign. For Jumbo Visma upper management to still put themself on the line like that. For Primož.

And for the people still claiming. No it was all Primož. You were feed this narrative for way too long. It needed a response.

Said all that i will go with Fred on this. It was a racing incident. Hence it's 50:50. Still it was needles incident and next time use brakes. You can still use the rider ahead as a lead out or to pass him on the other side. Or complain after the race you couldn't sprint as the rider blocked you. And he should improve in this regards. For that not to happen in the future. Instead of crashing yourself or the other one or both.

Nice of you to cut out the quote of everything Roglic did wrong. And you keep thinking this is Roglic having enough when he honestly probably hasn’t seen all the angles showing he is in the wrong and didn’t know Wright was still there, this thinking it was fine to do what he did. And when suddenly Wright is ahead of him and he crashes into Wright, from his point of view Wright rode through him. Which the evidence doesn’t support that claim.

“Ma’am I’m sorry I crashed into your son but you see, it was his fault. He should have seen me all the way on the left side of the road and that I started to come towards his lane. Even though we drove alongside each other and he started to pass me, causing me to crash into his left side passenger door. It’s his fault and I hope he learns his lesson.”

I hope for the next time Rolgic can see a rider that’s alongside and passing him so he doesn’t crash into him from leaving his line. On a further topic, hopefully this crash doesn’t hamper him or cause a sooner decline in ability.

 

[SHAD0W93]

This most be how Shannon Sharpe feels.

honestly this must be how everyone that debates with Nick Wright feels when he talks about the Kansas City Chiefs.