Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

[CyclistAbi]

Likely Jan will test his legs a bit at LBL.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Yup, Primoz is able to fight for victory in 2 consecutive GTs so Giro-Vuelta double should be possible for him to do in peak form. If he wins both that would be a great achievement getting him to elite 5 GT wins.

Without a Tour, he will never join the elite of GC riders. For me he would need at least 2 Tours and 1 Giro to be elite. Can't consider Nibali a elite GT rider just because he won all 3 GT's. I think his Tour was a major fluke. Just like Bernal, if he could win a Vuelta, I wouldn't consider him elite too.

 

[Extinction]

They were "forcing" him to lose too much weight and his body and performance did not respond well, it's relevant because I think he is approaching his leanest state since then.

to quote his "story" from his website:

Who said he had to go from 67 to 57 chili? Maybe he put that on himself, we don't know. Perhaps he's found the right vibe at Jumbo, but I hardly think it's less severe than at Soudal. He could maybe, under the right circumstances, loose weight and still be strong.

 

[Rackham]

Without a Tour, he will never join the elite of GC riders. For me he would need at least 2 Tours and 1 Giro to be elite. Can't consider Nibali a elite GT rider just because he won all 3 GT's. I think his Tour was a major fluke. Just like Bernal, if he could win a Vuelta, I wouldn't consider him elite too.

I think it's a bit unfair considering a huge number of those who qualify as the 'elite' under this definition... belong in the clinic area of this forum. Rogla will be remembered for his wins, losses, for the era he raced in & who he raced against.

Considering Pogacar is now labelled the new Merckx I also think that sort of puts the 2020 TdF defeat in perspective, namely the fact he lost against a one of a kind sort of superman. No shame in that.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Without a Tour, he will never join the elite of GC riders. For me he would need at least 2 Tours and 1 Giro to be elite.

Yeah, already on it.

With last two Tour editions there was a problem with things like cardboard signs, hay bales ... As a rider you don't have much influence over that. If you are at that exact spot. When the satellite hits. Tough luck. You can't train for that or do much about it. Statistics are now in Rogličes favor. The whole Starlink constellation falling from the sky can't do much against Rogla now.

Anyway. Lets do Giro first. And i am sure that in regards to the Tour. Roglič will still have opportunities to prepare and perform and rejoice. Without the divine interventions. Roglič as a cyclist has everything needed to win the Tour and on top of that he is patient.

On a personal note. It will be more sweet anyway. Winning GTs against Eddies when already established. As otherwise we would again hear *** like but the Eddie was not yet in his peak life better then Merckx form. We are past that now. Each GT win will count as being legendary!

 

[how yes no?]

Who said he had to go from 67 to 57 chili? Maybe he put that on himself, we don't know. Perhaps he's found the right vibe at Jumbo, but I hardly think it's less severe than at Soudal. He could maybe, under the right circumstances, loose weight and still be strong.

I don't know the exact person (probably there was more than 1), but he clearly states, he was told to do so, not that it was his decision.

at that point in 2011, he was blindly following and trusting everything that was told to him and failed to listen to his body

Yes, it's possible his grand mother sat down with him and frankly told him, hes fat and he has to do it, but I think it's much more likely it was his pro team.

Yes, I think with the experience he has and the jumbo doctors/nutritionists and working with Primož, he's motivated and trying precisely that, to lose some more weight while retaining the power. We'll see soon, but don't be surprised

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

They were "forcing" him to lose too much weight and his body and performance did not respond well, it's relevant because I think he is approaching his leanest state since then.

to quote his "story" from his website:

His website? Did he write those texts or give his blessing? Or is it a fan-made website which has no actual ties to him? I find it hard to believe that they would want a rider of 1m73 to get his weight down to 57kg. That's like 4 to 5 kg less than Evenepoel at "GC weight" who is even smaller. Of course science, data and knowledge has come a long way since then, but this seems too extreme to believe.

 

[Rackham]

They were "forcing" him to lose too much weight and his body and performance did not respond well, it's relevant because I think he is approaching his leanest state since then.

to quote his "story" from his website:

All the cruelty of this beautiful sport peaked in 2012 when Quickstep merged with Omega Pharma team and Jan was left without a place on the team. He returned to continental team Rog, where he was not paid, but rather was just given an opportunity to rebuild back from ground zero. The following year (2013) was not going any better and even the always determined Jan started to lose faith. There was only a dimmed glimmer of hope: becoming a European Road Champion under 23. He joined a continental team Tyrol Cycling, but things were not improving in the new environment. He was involved in several mass crashes and all this started to boil and the thought of ending the career was stuck more and more often on Jan’s mind.

Damn, Rogla had his own team... but he didn't pay Tratnik? I guess money was tight after selling his motorbike & starting his own amateur cycling career.

 

[how yes no?]

His website? Did he write those texts or give his blessing? Or is it a fan-made website which has no actual ties to him? I find it hard to believe that they would want a rider of 1m73 to get his weight down to 57kg. That's like 4 to 5 kg less than Evenepoel at "GC weight" who is even smaller. Of course science, data and knowledge has come a long way since then, but this seems too extreme to believe.

jan-tratnik.com
Its surely his official website, I think it's very likely he has read what was written in his "my story" and gave his blessing even if he didn't write it himself.
I'm also a close coworker of his friend that is mentioned latter in the story: "His fellow cyclist from his home town helped him to sign a 3-year deal with an Austrian team Amplatz-BMC" (he since switched from cycling to software development) and while I don't have any inside info, I discussed this topic with him today and he said the same thing.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

jan-tratnik.com
Its surely his official website, I think it's very likely he has read what was written in his "my story" and gave his blessing even if he didn't write it himself.
I'm also a close coworker of his friend that is mentioned latter in the story: "His fellow cyclist from his home town helped him to sign a 3-year deal with an Austrian team Amplatz-BMC" (he since switched from cycling to software development) and while I don't have any inside info, I discussed this topic with him today and he said the same thing.

That seems strangely shortsighted, to even in that era, expect someone to drop that much weight. Of course this was pre-ineos dominance and QS wasn't a GC team, but that's shocking.

 

[how yes no?]

Damn, Rogla had his own team... but he didn't pay Tratnik? I guess money was tight after selling his motorbike & starting his own amateur cycling career.

It's actually the main Ljubljana cycling club "Kolesarsko društvo Rog":
https://kdrog.si/en/o-drustvu/#zgodovina
That got it's name from the Slovenian bicycle factory "Rog" (everyone had their bikes back in the (Yugoslavia) day).

It's also the same club, where Roglič actually got his first training plans from the coach (and father of Jan Polanc), but he was later signed by AdriaMobil.
It's also the same club where Pogačar has raced before being signed by UAE. Their men professional team is named gusto-santic, but their younger selections are now sponsored by Pogačar and actually called Pogi-team.

 

[how yes no?]

That seems strangely shortsighted, to even in that era, expect someone to drop that much weight. Of course this was pre-ineos dominance and QS wasn't a GC team, but that's shocking.

I think probably Evenepoel has the failed Tratnik experiment to thank at least a little, that he was not also forced on the similar (but less extreme) way.

 

[acm]

It's worth taking half an hour to listen to this. He also talks about what happened at QS.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I think probably Evenepoel has the failed Tratnik experiment to thank at least a little, that he was not also forced on the similar (but less extreme) way.

The interview in the video acm posted gives a completely different story. They wanted him to lose 2kg, not 10. This is totally misrepresenting what happened. He also said he already was struggling with eating disorders. What puts QS in a bad light is that they signed an agreement for him to return, but then did not honor the agreement. Unless nothing was signed, because if it was, he could easily have taken them to court.

 

[acm]

He had 12kg less than his "normal" weight and from that perspective even 2kg is a lot.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

He had 12kg less than his "normal" weight and from that perspective even 2kg is a lot.

You mean 10kg from his current normal weight. Else you would be talking about 14kg in total. And regardless, trying to get him 2kg slimmer at the time, is far from as outrageous as asking him to lose 10 or 12 kg. Which is exactly how the website is presenting the facts.

 

[how yes no?]

There is also a misstranslation in the video... he actually says "da bi zgubil še kakšno kilo", which would translate into something like "to lose some kilogram(s) more", so it does not talk precisely about 1-2 kg.

The whole translation is done with more blame put on him, than his actual words tbh. It's not opposite of truth, but it truth with a makeup.

 

[Lorzenz08]

I think it's a bit unfair considering a huge number of those who qualify as the 'elite' under this definition... belong in the clinic area of this forum. Rogla will be remembered for his wins, losses, for the era he raced in & who he raced against.

Considering Pogacar is now labelled the new Merckx I also think that sort of puts the 2020 TdF defeat in perspective, namely the fact he lost against a one of a kind sort of superman. No shame in that.

I agree.
He may never win as much as the "elite".
But performance wise, he's most likely one of the very few in the whole history of the sport that could really be competitive with Pog and Vingo in a GT and finish within 2-3 minutes of them.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@Lorzenz08

Roglič doesn't care all that much if it's ten minutes or 1s. Around a minute ahead is likely a reasonable target. Although during the race, if the opportunity to grab more arises, then to take it. And after you can gift some back.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Maybe at LBL Tratnik should try to go in the breakaway. To test a bit the Giro legs.

 

[Oldermanish]

Without a Tour, he will never join the elite of GC riders. For me he would need at least 2 Tours and 1 Giro to be elite. Can't consider Nibali a elite GT rider just because he won all 3 GT's. I think his Tour was a major fluke. Just like Bernal, if he could win a Vuelta, I wouldn't consider him elite too.

That's a high bar to join the "elite". We're seeing an era with a wealth of riders seemingly capable of great things. I wouldn't be so quick to assume that's an endless situation or no one would be "elite". If he won the Giro and the Tour he would be historically elite IMO.

 

[Oldermanish]

Now the Giro hype will be more ridiculous. The Remco faithful have a few weeks to posture....

 

[CyclistAbi]

In regards to LBL. I am very happy that JV sent Tratnik in the breakaway. I was impressed with his performance and am looking forward to Giro. Basically two more weeks and it starts!

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9juEMBTWZQ

 

[Rackham]

In regards to LBL. I am very happy that JV sent Tratnik in the breakaway. I was impressed with his performance and am looking forward to Giro. Basically two more weeks and it starts!

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9juEMBTWZQ

On France 2 (French TV) Marion Rousse was one of the commentators.

So for Alaphilippe to do what he did one week after the greatest moment of his career (winning the Worlds) & in his dream race (Liège)... in front of his girlfriend who was commentating on French TV as well... I think the gods of cycling had some mischievous fun that day.

And Rogla did what Rogla does. Never give up. It's why I have a good feeling about the Giro tbh, even though Evenepoel is going to be a formidable opponent.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Looking forward to the Giro and expecting big things. However, I wonder why, aside from LBL as posted above, Roglic has never been a force in Monuments. He should have the characteristics for it - endurance, burst, strength, ITT skills - but he has never been anywhere close to doing what Remco and Pogacar are doing.