Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

[CyclistAbi]

They are evidently scared.

Yeah. As Simon Philip Yates once famously said. They are ... But to no avail. They will have to do the Giro now!

 

[cen]

Just.. please God.. no crashes.

 

[Extinction]

Yeah. As Simon Philip Yates once famously said. They are ... But to no avail. They will have to do the Giro now!

It shall be a great spectacle!

 

[Extinction]

Just.. please God.. no crashes.

Well, on the Italian roads, crashes are to be expected.

 

[Extinction]

Primož Roglič: Moj cilj je zmagati na Giru

Po sedmih tednih višinskih priprav je Primož Roglič pripravljen za glavni cilj sezone – majsko Dirko po Italiji. 33-letni kapetan Jumba Visme je bolj sproščen kot prej, na Teideju pa je od blizu spremljal tudi treninge glavnega tekmeca Remca Evenepoela.

www.rtvslo.si

Nice interview, he is cold as ice and ready to win Giro.
I dont have time to translate, maybe someone else have, or ask google

So he says he's relaxed, has trained hard and encountered Remco in the corridor of the hotel... should be a proper fight.

 

[how yes no?]

No way Roglic's shape will be that much better than at the previous Vuelta, when he won stage 4 iirc. Better yes, but marginally, as it is a myth he was out of form at the beginning of the Spanish GT last year. Jumbo would not have brought him to win otherwise. And he'd best not start the Giro too far off peak form with the TTs and mountains in the first half of the race, because if he is it's worrying. And it's obvious all the contenders, not just Roglic, will be aiming to peak for week 3, with the frightful combo of mountains they must face it could not be otherwise.

So you think that proper preparation (staying at altitude, etc...) makes only a marginal difference with regards to the GT shape? Because Primož didn't do any of that prior to the Vuelta.
This is the same guy that won the TT vs peak Domoulain in the Giro after coming from his first in life altitude training camp and is also otherwise known for very good responding to the altitude training.
Also weird how he was becoming comparatively stronger compared to Mass and Remco as the time progressed (and he is not known for getting better while the GT goes into the third week generally).
And sure Jumbo would send him to the Vuelta if he had a realistic chance of winning (and he was proving there was one) even if far from his best shape. This is the guys that won the 3 vuetas in a row (none in a perfect shape), of course they will let him try to go for the fourth one if he could just sit on the bike.

In other words... I think you are a lot more than just marginally wrong about his shape.

 

[Extinction]

So you think that proper preparation (staying at altitude, etc...) makes only a marginal difference with regards to the GT shape? Because Primož didn't do any of that prior to the Vuelta.
This is the same guy that won the TT vs peak Domoulain in the Giro after coming from his first in life altitude training camp and is also otherwise known for very good responding to the altitude training.
Also weird how he was becoming comparatively stronger compared to Mass and Remco as the time progressed (and he is not known for getting better while the GT goes into the third week generally).
And sure Jumbo would send him to the Vuelta if he had a realistic chance of winning (and he was proving there was one) even if far from his best shape. This is the guys that won the 3 vuetas in a row (none in a perfect shape), of course they will let him try to go for the fourth one if he could just sit on the bike.

In other words... I think you are a lot more than just marginally wrong about his shape.

If he's that much better then Primoz should have already crushed several Tours, but we know this isn't the case. He only gained on Remco last Vuelta, because the Belgian crashed hard. You have an exaggerated expectation, based on an eroneous assumption of how he started the Vuelta last year. None of this matters, because Remco will be up 1:30-2 minutes after stage 9 and won't fade in the third week.

 

[Netserk]

If he's that much better then Primoz should have already crushed several Tours, but we know this isn't the case.

His only chance was 2020, he wasn't yet fully developed in 2018 and he has crashed out since.

And mind you, in 2020 he crashed out of Dauphiné.

 

[Red Rick]

His only chance was 2020, he wasn't yet fully developed in 2018 and he has crashed out since.

Oh look it's time to be mad at choosing Groenewegen over Roglic in 2019 again.

 

[Netserk]

Oh look it's time to be mad at choosing Groenewegen over Roglic in 2019 again.

He still had plenty of years ahead to deliver. Don't worry, Rogla will still reach 3 Tour victories.

 

[Oldermanish]

Jumbo is aiming for Roglič to be at his best in the third week of the Giro: Interview | Waarom 'Luik als compromis' niet paste voor Roglic: 'We hebben geleerd uit het verleden' | Indeleiderstrui.nl

Stages 18, 19 & 20 will create some massive gaps IMO.

Based on the Vuelta, he could lose ~3 minutes over the first week if not in the best shape. Stage 7 is similar to stage 6 at the Vuelta, just not quite as long in terms of the steep part of the climb. The we have the TTs where Remco gained ~50 seconds over 30 km in the Vuelta. Given the additional stage 1 TT, I could see Remco gaining 1:30-2 min in total via the TT

Let the speculation run it's course. I don't think either candidate will let much gap form in any discipline. Week 3 will tell the tale.

 

[Extinction]

His only chance was 2020, he wasn't yet fully developed in 2018 and he has crashed out since.

And mind you, in 2020 he crashed out of Dauphiné.

True, but your form doesn't evaporate after a mishap. Otherwise his level would be such that he would be doing the Tour instead of Vingegaard as number one priority.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

The tension between CN experts regarding Primoz and Remco is rising. The Giro should be epic, hopefully no crashes by the Slovenian this time!

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

No way Roglic's shape will be that much better than at the previous Vuelta, when he won stage 4 iirc. Better yes, but marginally, as it is a myth he was out of form at the beginning of the Spanish GT last year. Jumbo would not have brought him to win otherwise. And he'd best not start the Giro too far off peak form with the TTs and mountains in the first half of the race, because if he is it's worrying. And it's obvious all the contenders, not just Roglic, will be aiming to peak for week 3, with the frightful combo of mountains they must face it could not be otherwise.

I believe we’ve already discussed this, but I still disagree with some of these points. Roglic won stage 4 because it exactly suited his unique skill set. In the first true test of from, he lost a minute to people he would never normally lose a minute to.

They are evidently preparing intelligently for their primary objective.

Fixed that for you.

If he's that much better then Primoz should have already crushed several Tours, but we know this isn't the case. He only gained on Remco last Vuelta, because the Belgian crashed hard. You have an exaggerated expectation, based on an eroneous assumption of how he started the Vuelta last year. None of this matters, because Remco will be up 1:30-2 minutes after stage 9 and won't fade in the third week.

2019: Did not start in a year in which he absolutely could have won in retrospect
2020: Crashed out of Dauphine before Tour, underestimates Pogacar and even looked out for him at times, fell apart at very end but mostly was on the receiving end of one of the most alien performances of all time
2021: Crashed out
2022: Crashed out

You can’t argue he doesn’t have multiple Tours solely due to being not good enough; there is a lot of context there. Remco also hadn’t won’t a Tour and isn’t even starting it this year: is he not good enough?

His only chance was 2020, he wasn't yet fully developed in 2018 and he has crashed out since.

And mind you, in 2020 he crashed out of Dauphiné.

This.

True, but your form doesn't evaporate after a mishap. Otherwise his level would be such that he would be doing the Tour instead of Vingegaard as number one priority.

Refusing to acknowledge that Roglic experienced impact of crashing out of Tour with cracked vertebrae (plus ongoing shoulder issues that required surgery) is bizarre. Also, it could be that he was not at top level at the Vuelta while still not being perceived as good as Vingegaard. Also, you always defend your Tour title.[/QUOTE]

 

[rokovski]

The tension between CN experts regarding Primoz and Remco is rising. The Giro should be epic, hopefully no crashes by the Slovenian this time!

And Remcos flat tyers in last 3km with uphill sprints.

 

[Extinction]

I simply dispute the idea that Roglic's form will be so much higher than his last GT levels. In that case he should win by 10 minutes. But this is unreasonable.

 

[Netserk]

I simply dispute the idea that Roglic's form will be so much higher than his last GT levels. In that case he should win by 10 minutes. But this is unreasonable.

Correct. He will merely win by 4 minutes.

 

[how yes no?]

In 2018 he was still not in his GT shape, and has ridden a lot of one week races, targeting and winning them and was added to the tour later, because his shape was still not that bad... and was very much in contention for the third place till the last TT (is this a pattern?) vs Froome.

In 2019 he targeted Giro and was in comfortable position (so much so, that he let Carapaz go, while playing the mind games with Nibali, thinking it will not be a problem) till he fell (quite badly) sick, but still suffered his way to the third place. He needed a lot of rest after that and went to the Vuelta with zero pressure after finally recovering in the summer and won it. He then dominated the summer 1 day races in Italy, till losing in Lombardia, because it was raced aggressively against him (because of his prior races domination) and his possibly not the best handling of extreme lengths.

In 2020 the very important part of preparations from (a very hard crash in) Dauphine till Tour was severely compromised as was his TT ability and he was still the strongest GT rider in the race till that TT and if he regarded Pogačar as a dangerous competitor from the start instead of a young Slovenian protegee that he was nursing and would not let him get time back on Peyresourde, while making the others chase him, and would expose Pogačars almost only teammate being Jan Polanc, etc... it would even with the disastrous TT be hard to say who wins. This was a weird calendar year so after the tour soon came the WC, where he was with the best (clearly not the best) and then Liege which he won (probably not the strongest) and then 2 weeks later Vuelta... so he was in-form from June till November, with very little break in between. It's understandable he was not that dominant in the Vuelta compared to the guys that didnt have a peak from start of summer, but he won.

In 2021 he bossed the Paris-Nice till crashes. He still won comfortably vs Tadej at Itzulia, but was a bit too quick on the trigger vs peak Alaphilippe in FW and just not good enough in Liege (again that long distance classics pattern maybe?). Not competing till the tour (to avoid 2020 Dauphine story and being comfortable in his altitude preparation), he looked very competitive to the Tadej Pogačar in the first 2 stages, crashing in the third.
He then bossed the olympic TT and took a very comfortable (almost 5 min to Mass in 2.) win in the Vuelta.
Again winning the Italian autumn classics but Lombardia. I think at least at this point, it's safe to say Pogačar is the better classics rider.

In 2022 he got a nasty knee injury in the spring and this also had influence on his Tour preparation, but he arrived in good shape anyway and was on same time as the future winner Jonas, till the bale of hay crash. And with a very severe injury (that was getting worse, described as constant knife stabling in the back, coming from a guy that can really suffer (not just on bike) like few there) he was still the third strongest GT rider in the race until dropping out, after having a major influence on the race.
Full extent of his injuries has revealed itself only after leaving the race, but he was in no condition to prepare for Vuelta for a long time, not even being sure if he will be able to ride it till the last. And he was still very much (ever more) in contention for the win, till the season terminal crash.

The reason he isn't going to the Tour is because Jonas is still great himself and proven 2 years in a row of being able to race with Pogačar himself, and you don't just replace the current winner because someone else also has great numbers. The Giro is also a very big goal for Primož, even if Tour is still the main one for the future, and the Giro organizers were trying hard to attract at least 1 top Slovene (preferably Pogačar, but that was never gonna happen this year).

So yes, in my opinion, he was in the last 5 years (including 2018 not yet being on top GT level) the best active GT rider if in peak form, better than Pogačar or Jonas, and is also still maybe the best active GT rider, or certainly among the top 3.

With absence of unluckyness, this Giro should tell us if he's indeed still in the competition for the best, or if he was replaced by Remco or if we maybe have top 4 now.

 

[Elos Anjos]

Seeing Extinction arguing is exhausting. Good riddance.

 

[Didier_Bel]

No crashes wished to anyone indeed . And , ofcourse , no extreme wheelsucking anymore either . Pls behave as a champion should behave . Thank you

 

[Extinction]

Correct. He will merely win by 4 minutes.

Says you.

 

[Extinction]

In 2018 he was still not in his GT shape, and has ridden a lot of one week races, targeting and winning them and was added to the tour later, because his shape was still not that bad... and was very much in contention for the third place till the last TT (is this a pattern?) vs Froome.

In 2019 he targeted Giro and was in comfortable position (so much so, that he let Carapaz go, while playing the mind games with Nibali, thinking it will not be a problem) till he fell (quite badly) sick, but still suffered his way to the third place. He needed a lot of rest after that and went to the Vuelta with zero pressure after finally recovering in the summer and won it. He then dominated the summer 1 day races in Italy, till losing in Lombardia, because it was raced aggressively against him (because of his prior races domination) and his possibly not the best handling of extreme lengths.

In 2020 the very important part of preparations from (a very hard crash in) Dauphine till Tour was severely compromised as was his TT ability and he was still the strongest GT rider in the race till that TT and if he regarded Pogačar as a dangerous competitor from the start instead of a young Slovenian protegee that he was nursing and would not let him get time back on Peyresourde, while making the others chase him, and would expose Pogačars almost only teammate being Jan Polanc, etc... it would even with the disastrous TT be hard to say who wins. This was a weird calendar year so after the tour soon came the WC, where he was with the best (clearly not the best) and then Liege which he won (probably not the strongest) and then 2 weeks later Vuelta... so he was in-form from June till November, with very little break in between. It's understandable he was not that dominant in the Vuelta compared to the guys that didnt have a peak from start of summer, but he won.

In 2021 he bossed the Paris-Nice till crashes. He still won comfortably vs Tadej at Itzulia, but was a bit too quick on the trigger vs peak Alaphilippe in FW and just not good enough in Liege (again that long distance classics pattern maybe?). Not competing till the tour (to avoid 2020 Dauphine story and being comfortable in his altitude preparation), he looked very competitive to the Tadej Pogačar in the first 2 stages, crashing in the third.
He then bossed the olympic TT and took a very comfortable (almost 5 min to Mass in 2.) win in the Vuelta.
Again winning the Italian autumn classics but Lombardia. I think at least at this point, it's safe to say Pogačar is the better classics rider.

In 2022 he got a nasty knee injury in the spring and this also had influence on his Tour preparation, but he arrived in good shape anyway and was on same time as the future winner Jonas, till the bale of hay crash. And with a very severe injury (that was getting worse, described as constant knife stabling in the back, coming from a guy that can really suffer (not just on bike) like few there) he was still the third strongest GT rider in the race until dropping out, after having a major influence on the race.
Full extent of his injuries has revealed itself only after leaving the race, but he was in no condition to prepare for Vuelta for a long time, not even being sure if he will be able to ride it till the last. And he was still very much (ever more) in contention for the win, till the season terminal crash.

The reason he isn't going to the Tour is because Jonas is still great himself and proven 2 years in a row of being able to race with Pogačar himself, and you don't just replace the current winner because someone else also has great numbers. The Giro is also a very big goal for Primož, even if Tour is still the main one for the future, and the Giro organizers were trying hard to attract at least 1 top Slovene (preferably Pogačar, but that was never gonna happen this year).

So yes, in my opinion, he was in the last 5 years (including 2018 not yet being on top GT level) the best active GT rider if in peak form, better than Pogačar or Jonas, and is also still maybe the best active GT rider, or certainly among the top 3.

With absence of unluckyness, this Giro should tell us if he's indeed still in the competition for the best, or if he was replaced by Remco or if we maybe have top 4 now.

Bla, bla, bla...but a truly heartfelt response. I'm almost touched.

 

[Extinction]

Seeing Extinction arguing is exhausting. Good riddance.

So I've tired you out, have I.

 

[Elos Anjos]

So I've tired you out, have I.

Like arguing with a door have you.

 

[Extinction]

Like arguing with a door have you.

How old are you?