Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

[Gargamel35]

Absolutely, look the strongest rider can follow the team of his rival in the mountains to then attack him. A team can make winning a GT go more smoothly, but it can't make a weaker rider win, unless the strongest has a problem.

Sure.

 

[Extinction]

Sure.

Indeed, plus it's not like Soudal is the new Sky or Jumbo, so Primoz should have no problem keeping up if he has the legs.

 

[Elos Anjos]

But this is entirely irrelevent, buddy, to the issue at hand; namely, Remco would only win because of the weakness of Roglic's team, which is bull-sheet.

Only if you assume that teams have no bearing on the result of their protect rider, which is something - I don't know how to put it - so ridiculous that the burden of proof is on you and those who stand by it.

May 2023 and here we are explaining to Remco fans that any GT rider loosing some team mates over others with less quality might affect his overall performance. It's embarrassing.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

In order to settle this debate, I think people should sign up for the Giro CQ game. Extinction and Co. will get a roster with only Remco in it, while Team Elos Anjos will have Roglič and 7 random weak riders.

The losers will either have to shave the winners' legs, or buy them a buffet at Pizza Hut.

 

[Red Rick]

If Roglic and Remco fans could stop fighting in their respective threads that would great, lest we get more DNS than Jumbo in the Giro

 

[Oldermanish]

In order to settle this debate, I think people should sign up for the Giro CQ game. Extinction and Co. will get a roster with only Remco in it, while Team Elos Anjos will have Roglič and 7 random weak riders.

The losers will either have to shave the winners' legs, or buy them a buffet at Pizza Hut.

True justice would have the losers shave the winners legs while they eat from the buffet at Pizza Hut. No one needs to win completely!

 

[Extinction]

Only if you assume that teams have no bearing on the result of their protect rider, which is something - I don't know how to put it - so ridiculous that the burden of proof is on you and those who stand by it.

May 2023 and here we are explaining to Remco fans that any GT rider loosing some team mates over others with less quality might affect his overall performance. It's embarrassing.

Lemond won the 89 Tour without a team to support him. I don't assume the team has no bearing, but everything is still a function of having the strongest rider, without which it's a pipe dream.

 

[Oldermanish]

Indeed, plus it's not like Soudal is the new Sky or Jumbo, so Primoz should have no problem keeping up if he has the legs.

Keeping up is one thing; needing help in a 3 weeker when you have mechanical or strategic needs is another. When Lemond won the major battles were almost mano y mano with little team assistance for him or the Professor. Winning against Hinault got down to an internal battle within the strongest team. Beating Chiapucci comes as the closest comparable success but still not equal to the quality of teams and tactics now.
It's not like Roglic merely lost his shot at the Tour; Tadej took it from him. He used his team to his best advantage.

 

[Elos Anjos]

If Roglic and Remco fans could stop fighting in their respective threads that would great, lest we get more DNS than Jumbo in the Giro

I don't know why was banned but just like before I think we should acknowledge a bias here. Every cycling site that has a take in Roglic's teammates fading due to covid or crashing call it bad luck. There's no other way to say it than to state that second tier options are likely to impact his chances and simultaneously to heighten Remco's. There is no other way to see it.

So if you or other mods have a problem with Roglic and Remco fans arguing, at least man up and acknowledge that one side is posting crazy things and the other is just stating the obvious.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

No, the sloppy thinking is on you. Teams matter in winning, but if a rider is the strongest he can win on his own. Roglic only needs to do well in the TTs and drop Remco in the mountains to win. He needs his team to ride tempo and control the break, but not to drop Evenepoel. That's on him. Now if Primoz is the strongest and has the strongest team, then Jumbo can kill the race. But Primoz losing to Evenepoel won't be because of the weakness of his team, rather simply that he wasn't stronger than Remco. There is a difference, and I mentioned this only in response to another poster anticipating that Remco fans would get all worked up should Roglic fans claim, were he to win, that it was only because Primoz had a weak team. That's the epitome of sloppy thinking.

Absolutely, look the strongest rider can follow the team of his rival in the mountains to then attack him. A team can make winning a GT go more smoothly, but it can't make a weaker rider win, unless the strongest has a problem.

Aren’t you forgetting about mechanicals and crashes? It’s not just two people racing without mishap in a vacuum; surely this has been a good reminder that sh*t happens. When a rider has an issue, he sometimes needs a teammate to provide a bike, help him, pull him back to a peloton. Stronger riders are more likely to still be there when you need them and they’re more likely to have juice in their legs. If the team is gone and you get a flat late in a hard stage, you’re on your own. This is why teams often send riders out in the breaks. Cycling 101. I know you know this; surely you can admit that losing your team could severely hurt your chances?

 

[Netserk]

at least man up and acknowledge that one side is posting crazy things and the other is just stating the obvious.

Isn't that besides the point? Everyone is allowed to post crazy things, as long as it's done in a proper manner.

I very much agree with you that some of the points you respond to are, uhh, sloppy shall we say. But I'd advice you to rethink the manner in which you reply back.

 

[Red Rick]

If Roglic and Remco fans could stop fighting in their respective threads that would great, lest we get more DNS than Jumbo in the Giro

Damnit

 

[Krzysztof_O]

JV should just tell the Fisherman that innovative training camps will be in varius places of Italy to simulate race conditions and that even other guys like Remco agreed to take part. Even if Primoz doesnt win the Skeleton will (by accident, one day they will tell him to push 7 w/kg to simulate TdF against Pogi).

 

[IndurainsTdF1994]

JV should just tell the Fisherman that innovative training camps will be in varius places of Italy to simulate race conditions and that even other guys like Remco agreed to take part. Even if Primoz doesnt win the Skeleton will (by accident, one day they will tell him to push 7 w/kg to simulate TdF against Pogi).

If you use 'the Fisherman' and 'the Skeleton', you should also use 'the Ski Jumper', 'the Überkind', and 'the Übermensch'.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

If you use 'the Fisherman' and 'the Skeleton', you should also use 'the Ski Jumper', 'the Überkind', and 'the Übermensch'.

Who is more über though? Vinge, given his powerful legs and heart combined with super thin upper body, looks like a lab marvel.

 

[IndurainsTdF1994]

Who is more über though? Vinge, given his powerful legs and heart combined with super thin upper body, looks like a lab marvel.

But can he down a 1/2 liter of Amstel without wincing? That's some überness that no lab can produce.

(just kidding, Amstel, you're a lovely beer)

 

[Peyroteo94]

He must be sick, otherwise it was one of his worst time trials of his career.

 

[Gwbert]

He must be sick, otherwise it was one of his worst time trials of his career.

Or he’s ready to destroy people in the 3rd week as Remco does a S. Yates style implosion 👌

 

[DoYouEvenRideBruh]

Time for some no risk no glory action.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

He must be sick, otherwise it was one of his worst time trials of his career.

No, it was a mainly flat TT. He doesn't lose that much vs Ganna and comparable to Küng.

 

[johnymax]

He must be sick, otherwise it was one of his worst time trials of his career.

I don't know about being sick but it certainly didn't go as I expected. The Rogla we know should have been at least around Almeida's time.

 

[jmdirt]

I liked Gwbert's post above not because I want anyone to implode, but because a stage one 19 K TT doesn't start and end a three week GT. RE had a GREAT TT, but there are a lot of Ks yet to race.

 

[Bonimenier]

I don't know about being sick but it certainly didn't go as I expected. The Rogla we know should have been at least around Almeida's time.

It looks more like the UAE guys and Evenepoel just did really good. Besides that Roglic finished more or less where expected if you compare with guys like Ganna and Kung.

 

[Red Rick]

That looked bad.

Ignoring Evenepoel, he lost time to Almeida and TGH. I can blame the TT being flat but he normally cleans those guys on any route.

 

[Carols]

It sure looks like he's going to need to go into 'no risk no glory' mode, especially in week three. I expected 30 seconds lost today but this looked bleak. I'd sure like to hear what he has to say.