Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

[bNator]

It doesn't matter what will happen in this vuelta. Vingegaard will be the leader of the team for tour 2024 and roglic has no business on that situation. Roglic cannot demand anything in terms of tour de france leadership when Vingegaard won the last 2 tours de france. If he wants to go to the tour next year, he needs to know his place, and that's work for vingegaard. Of course he will be protected but his role will be similar to adam yates. I know this statement is not popular for roglic fans, but it is what it is. Roglic can’t produce the perfomances that vingegaard can in a GT, even pogacar can’t.

The same could be said for la Vuelta, yet they are co-leaders. I guess all of us Rogla fans are just lucky the guys at TJV are not just Vinge fans such as yourself but care for the long term interests of the team. And as long as Roglic is capable of beating Pogacar (which this year he might have been), there will be no bidon carrying tasks for him…

P.S. What’s with you guys wanting for everybody to succumb to certain riders before the pedals have been turned even? Who are you to tell Rogla what his business is? As it stands, Rogla has won more GTs than Vinge or Pog and is yet to be beaten on track by Vinge…

Plus - I never even said anything about leadership status, merely the fact that he will have earned his right to attend. Naturally, as a protected rider…

 

[Andy schleck]

The same could be said for la Vuelta, yet they are co-leaders. I guess all of us Rogla fans are just lucky the guys at TJV are not just Vinge fans such as yourself but care for the long term interests of the team. And as long as Roglic is capable of beating Pogacar (which this year he might have been), there will be no bidon carrying tasks for him…

P.S. What’s with you guys wanting for everybody to succumb to certain riders before the pedals have been turned even? Who are you to tell Rogla what his business is? As it stands, Rogla has won more GTs than Vinge or Pog and is yet to be beaten on track by Vinge…

Plus - I never even said anything about leadership status, merely the fact that he will have earned his right to attend. Naturally, as a protected rider…

Vingegaard knows how to beat pogacar in the tour, two times. Roglic can't beat pogacar in grand tours, and he lost that tour 2020 to pogacar in a ridiculous way. I don't remember when roglic beat pogacar.

You know very well that 2 tours de france are more important than some vueltas, but this is not relevant for the discussion.

Certainly he will not be vinge, since they are in the same team, but jumbo know very well that vingegaard can push more power that roglic.

Like i said, roglic can go to the tour next year, but it's always to do the role similar to what yates did for pogacar in this tour.

 

[bNator]

Vingegaard knows how to beat pogacar in the tour, two times. Roglic can't beat pogacar in grand tours, and he lost that tour 2020 to pogacar in a ridiculous way. I don't remember when roglic beat pogacar.

You know very well that 2 tours de france are more important than some vueltas, but this is not relevant for the discussion.

Certainly he will not be vinge, since they are in the same team, but jumbo know very well that vingegaard can push more power that roglic.

Like i said, roglic can go to the tour next year, but it's always to do the role similar to what yates did for pogacar in this tour.

I can imagine since you don’t seem that well educated in cycling. He beat him in 2019 Vuelta, was well on his way of beating him in 2020 Dauphine, beat him in 2020 LBL, beat him in 2021 Basque Country, Milano Torino and Giro de l’Emillia.

You calling his 2020 defeat ridiculous just further outlines my initial claim…

And once again - show me where I said Roglič should be the leader and then we can discuss. Until then, there’s nothing to discuss except you being a very bad “forum winner”…

 

[CyclistAbi]

I don't remember when roglic beat pogacar.

Some examples. At nationals, in a GT race, in a week long race and at a monument.

P.S. But c'mon guys. Lets do Vuelta first. I don't know what Tour has to do with it. Curretntly both riders are set to ride Vuelta. And if that doesn't change we will get to see it first hand. On how that works. Hard to imagine it will be that far off compared to on how Tour 2024 could be approached.

 

[Rackham]

It doesn't matter what will happen in this vuelta. Vingegaard will be the leader of the team for tour 2024 and roglic has no business on that situation. Roglic cannot demand anything in terms of tour de france leadership when Vingegaard won the last 2 tours de france. If he wants to go to the tour next year, he needs to know his place, and that's work for vingegaard. Of course he will be protected but his role will be similar to adam yates. I know this statement is not popular for roglic fans, but it is what it is. Roglic can’t produce the perfomances that vingegaard can in a GT, even pogacar can’t.

#samenwinnen my dude.

It means Roglič can & will have his chances as long as he has the power. That's one thing Jumbo have demonstrated over the years, i.e. they don't really care who they win with as long as they win. They don't do cult of personality.

I have my criticisms of Jumbo (namely with regards to the cobbles stage in last year's TdF) but I do not doubt Rog will get a fair chance as long as he prepares properly.

It's really all in his hands as well, i.e. fans can argue as much as we want about all manner of stuff (whether trivial or important) but at the end of the day Roglič needs to be in top form for a GT. It's not like Vingegaard needs Rog to do turns on the front for him like Sepp Kuss or Kelderman either. Rog can just race his own race & see what he's got at the business end of a stage.

And if the Vuelta goes completely to sh*t & Vingegaard & Rog just can't race together for whatever reason, then a transfer will happen. It's no big deal either way.

 

[CyclistAbi]

So i guess this year's Vuelta edition is of such nature that it's nearly impossible to say it's kids stuff.

P.S. Unless i guess Ayuso wins overall.

 

[Rackham]

2 years ago today!

https://twitter.com/x/status/1684864649823387648

View: https://twitter.com/SloveniaInfo/status/1684864649823387648

 

[Rackham]

Zeeman over Roglic, die in 2022 niet zichzelf was: 'Hij zei letterlijk: op dit moment stop ik liever met wielrennen' | Wieler Revue

Primoz Roglic kende vorig jaar een zware periode na de Tour de France en Vuelta a España. In beide rondes moest hij opgeven na een valpartij.

wielerrevue.nl

According to Zeeman, Rog was very unhappy last year. At one point after his TdF DNF he apparently said he wanted to quit cycling, which according to Zeeman was a result of putting too much focus on the Tour, i.e. which sucked the joy out of the sport for him (Zeeman also questions whether Rog should even want the Tour).

Reading between the lines (& this comes after Vingegaard recently said he didn't want any changes to the Jumbo Tour selection next year, i.e. what he called his "dream team") I'd hazard a guess Jumbo want to dissuade Roglič from going to the Tour.

That's how I interpret Zeeman's comments anyway.

 

[Netserk]

From injuries in the spring to hay bales in summer and finally a self-inflicted crash ending his season, it's understandable if he was deeply unhappy and frustrated last year. Come what may, I just hope he won't suffer any of that nonsense for a long while.

 

[Rackham]

From injuries in the spring to hay bales in summer and finally a self-inflicted crash ending his season, it's understandable if he was deeply unhappy and frustrated last year. Come what may, I just hope he won't suffer any of that nonsense for a long while.

Until Vingegaard emerged with his mega watts which currently demolish everyone, it was Roglič who carried Jumbo's weight of expectation in the Tour & it was probably very stressful (especially in the build-up to last year's Tour with his knee injury).

I do think though that Jumbo have too much entitlement when it comes to the Tour de France (like they now expect to win it & any other result is deemed unacceptable, i.e. that's the impression they give). In the real world 8 years ago when Rog signed they were struggling, a lot. Kruijswijk was 'the man' in GT's & that wasn't getting them very far.

So in my mind either Jumbo can respectfully include Rog in next year's TdF squad in a sort of leader B role (with some protection) or they can also 'respectfully' allow him to leave & wave goodbye on good terms based on their history together as a team & rider.

I just think a few of these recent comments (& their reticence to include Rog in the 2023 Tour squad when he suggested he could go) paint the picture of a company (Jumbo-Visma) which is quite happy with a status-quo where Roglič goes to the Giro & Vingegaard does the Tour. For them, that's probably the best scenario for their own interests.

The question is what Rog wants (& he has already said he wants to go to the Tour next year).

 

[Eeslliw]

Until Vingegaard emerged with his mega watts which currently demolish everyone, it was Roglič who carried Jumbo's weight of expectation in the Tour & it was probably very stressful (especially in the build-up to last year's Tour with his knee injury).

I do think though that Jumbo have too much entitlement when it comes to the Tour de France (like they now expect to win it & any other result is deemed unacceptable, i.e. that's the impression they give). In the real world 8 years ago when Rog signed they were struggling, a lot. Kruijswijk was 'the man' in GT's & that wasn't getting them very far.

So in my mind either Jumbo can respectfully include Rog in next year's TdF squad in a sort of leader B role (with some protection) or they can also 'respectfully' allow him to leave & wave goodbye on good terms based on their history together as a team & rider.

I just think a few of these recent comments (& their reticence to include Rog in the 2023 Tour squad when he suggested he could go) paint the picture of a company (Jumbo-Visma) which is quite happy with a status-quo where Roglič goes to the Giro & Vingegaard does the Tour. For them, that's probably the best scenario for their own interests.

The question is what Rog wants (& he has already said he wants to go to the Tour next year).

Maybe Pogi himself will buyout Roglic's contract at Jumbo-Visma so they can do 1-2 on Jonas at TdF 2024. Why not eh?

 

[Red Rick]

I mean it was obvious Roglic was at rock bottom at the Vuelta last year when Jumbo let him put out that statement about Fred Wright.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

(& this comes after Vingegaard recently said he didn't want any changes to the Jumbo Tour selection next year, i.e. what he called his "dream team")

The question is what Rog wants (& he has already said he wants to go to the Tour next year).

Who still believes that Roglic and Vingegaard are on the greatest of terms?

 

[Red Rick]

Who still believes that Roglic and Vingegaard are on the greatest of terms?

They both want to win the Tour, they must really hate each other then...

 

[Rackham]

Who still believes that Roglic and Vingegaard are on the greatest of terms?

People who believe Jumbo's riders "ride their dreams"?

lol, this is pro-sports. It's cutthroat out there & it's a business. Jumbo are evidently sending both key GT assets to the Vuelta in order to maximize their chances. The rest is just propaganda. It's also evident that the team selection deployed for the Vuelta has absolutely zero bearing on next year's Tour (aka what is true for the Vuelta is not true for the Tour).

That's the tough situation Rog finds himself in, i.e. even if he wins the Vuelta against Evenepoel & Vingegaard, it'll have no impact whatsoever on how Jumbo view next season.

I'm still looking forwards to the Vuelta though because Rog should have some decent form & be able to defend his chances.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

They both want to win the Tour, they must really hate each other then...

Resentment, not hatred. You wouldn't resent the guy who actively tried to keep you out of the Tour squad, most likely (we don't know this for a fact) for the second time in a row?

 

[Rackham]

Resentment, not hatred. You wouldn't resent the guy who actively tried to keep you out of the Tour squad, most likely (we don't know this for a fact) for the second time in a row?

We can only go on what we see, which in this case is Rog looks very happy right now in Tignes. At least on his social media (& the social media posts of his teammates in Tignes). He's goofing about, having fun with Tratnik, Valter & Gesink.

Zeeman IMO isn't entirely wrong when he suggests the Tour might have become a sort of hindrance for Rog, namely because after watching this rider for a very long time he's at his most lethal best when he's in a relaxed silent assassin type mood with a laser focus. The sort of mood where he shows up at a race with hairy legs & smashes it. That sort of mindset, basically.

I have no idea about next season (& beyond the Vuelta) but IMO going into the Vuelta with Vingegaard on the same team isn't a bad thing at all tbh. We'll see just how well (or not!) Vingegaard & Rog can race together as equal leaders for the duration of a hard fought 3 week battle.

 

[Red Rick]

Resentment, not hatred. You wouldn't resent the guy who actively tried to keep you out of the Tour squad, most likely (we don't know this for a fact) for the second time in a row?

I haven't seen any interview that indicated Vingegaard decided Roglic couldn't do the Tour. IIRC there was speculation early in the season, but Roglic later said he wanted to do the Giro himself, in part because of the Monte Lussari MTT.

In an interview after Tirreno I think Zeeman himself was very surprised at how well Roglic was going because they had until then operated on the assumption Roglic wouldn't be ready for the first week of the Giro, and I honestly don't think it would be their choice if they didn't think Roglic was gonna be able to win it.

 

[theyoungest]

I do think though that Jumbo have too much entitlement when it comes to the Tour de France (like they now expect to win it & any other result is deemed unacceptable, i.e. that's the impression they give). In the real world 8 years ago when Rog signed they were struggling, a lot. Kruijswijk was 'the man' in GT's & that wasn't getting them very far.

This is just completely fabricated. I don't think you speak Dutch, so maybe a lot is lost in translation for you, but they have way more respect for Roglic than you give them credit for. Also, they have given no impression whatsoever that from now on they expect to win the Tour every year. Far from it. They have said, however, that a Tour team with Roglic is always stronger than a Tour team without him. So you can be pretty sure that he'll be in the Tour again next year, which seems to be all you care about.

 

[RedheadDane]

I hope he wins the Vuelta, and then finish his season.
Simply because of the absolutely insane statistic that would be.

 

[acm]

He can also win Lombardia and that would be insane statistic. Mr. 100%.

 

[Red Rick]

Gotta win Emilia to mark territory ahead of the 2024 Tour.

 

[Rackham]

He can also win Lombardia and that would be insane statistic. Mr. 100%.

And if Vingegaard loses the Vuelta, he'll be Mr. 60% (literally, i.e. 3 wins out of 5 races this year).

 

[CyclistAbi]

Looks like Tratnik was promoted to preliminary startlist.

 

[Carols]

Who still believes that Roglic and Vingegaard are on the greatest of terms?

This is projection and has nothing to do with how Primoz feels. Has he ever said or done anything to indicate he and Vingo are not on good terms. I think he's bigger than being jealous and petty.

IMO he Made Jumbo and if they can't keep him happy there are teams that will be glad to have him even at 34. He'd have to buy out his contract though. But I personally believe he sees TJV as 'home' and is adult enough to recognize if Vingo is better than he is Vingo would be the leader. But they should let him be the coleader with dedicated support. But that's between him and TJV not Vinge.