Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

[CyclistAbi]

I never heard anything about Evenepoel sending Rogla to early retirement, some of you roglic fans have an awesome imagination.

It was gearing up, then Rogla set it straight.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Wheelsucking and let the arrogant kid blow himself up? Wow what a masterclass

Nah. There are not a lot of cyclists in the current peloton, that can go shoulder to shoulder with Rogla. If you are one of the select ones, then occasionally you can get lucky. But all of them need some Roglstomp in their life.

 

[Froome]

It was gearing up, then Rogla set it straight.

Who said that Remco was going to retire roglic?
I never heard anything like that.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Who said that Remco was going to retire roglic?
I never heard anything like that.

We had discussed this already. During the pre-season, just like now, and i would say all the way up to Catalunya, there were rather strong voices, on how Roglič doesn't really stand a chance. Mostly based on season 2022, results vise. On crucial stage at Catalunya commentators, joining the hype train, well any moment now, Remco was just about to ... Nope.

Then obviously it will be at Giro ... Till Vuelta it already chilled down a bit. As some felt Jonas is so much better then Rogla, that Remco wouldn't stand a chance at Vuelta.

Anyway, focus in my opinion shifted to Jonas, season 2024. So lets see if Jonas is really that much better stage racer, than Rogla. Or such assumptions are again a bit off.

 

[Kazistuta]

We had discussed this already. During the pre-season, just like now, and i would say all the way up to Catalunya, there were rather strong voices, on how Roglič doesn't really stand a chance. Mostly based on season 2022, results vise. On crucial stage at Catalunya commentators, joining the hype train, well any moment now, Remco was just about to ... Nope.

Then obviously it will be at Giro ... Till Vuelta it already chilled down a bit. As some felt Jonas is so much better then Rogla, that Remco wouldn't stand a chance at Vuelta.

Anyway, focus in my opinion shifted to Jonas, season 2024. So lets see if Jonas is really that much better stage racer, than Rogla. Or such assumptions are again a bit off.

Please link to those statements made by posters, not just your own interpretations of discussions in a cycling forum.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Please link to those statements made by posters, not just your own interpretations of discussions in a cycling forum.

Even better then that, you can rewatch the stage on Eurosport. Commentators mining such details, on how Remco is putting on glasses, to look better on pictures, when he finishes it off.

Turned out it was more or less collective madness, so hard to blame them for that.

As for me linking to discussions we had before the season 2023 started. Why? No need for that. Just start reading this thread from end to start. In less than 10 posts you will already get enough clues. Now multiply that sentiment, by lets say a value in between 10 and 100. That is based on your own interpretation and based on how you see it fit.

But anyway, Jonas. Time to say a thing or two about that. It's not Remco, or Pogi or ... that is holding the one thing any cyclists in the universe wants. It's Jonas. That is the focus now.

 

[Elos Anjos]

With the difference that Remco completely dominated Liege (without his strongest competitor), and Roglic barely won the Giro

That's a win missing in bambi's palmares.

 

[Elos Anjos]

I can't believe how Remco's fans or Roglic hate is so sour even after six months. You guys need some therapy on how resentful you are.

 

[CyclistAbi]

I can't believe how Remco's fans or Roglic hate is so sour even after six months. You guys need some therapy on how resentful you are.

Nah. Although on the opposite sides of the spectrum, we are all passionate about Rogla. As boring he is not.

 

[Elos Anjos]

Nah. Although on the opposite sides of the spectrum, we are all passionate about Rogla. As boring he is not.

This discussion was already had after both Giro and Vuelta. Users should lurk more on the threads before restating again farsical readings of what happened or open threads to recast their manias on a new dress.

 

[CyclistAbi]

This discussion was already had after both Giro and Vuelta. Users should lurk more on the threads before restating again farsical readings of what happened or open threads to recast their manias on a new dress.

I agree that we all likely just got bored and hence ran another lap. The one we already did in the past. Still likely there was some things left in it, to discuss. Anyway, from my side, to conclude, if Remco would beat Rogla in the 2023 season, at the Catalunya, Giro and Vuelta. Then likely Rogla wouldn't be attending Tour 2024 while riding for Bora. Visma would still be riding for Jonas, regardless.

Now best to focus on the future, Tour 2024. There is where Rogla, Pogi, Jonas and Remco will get their chances again. To see if the differences in between them are really as big. In my opinion, no. The rest, leading to that, just being an appetizer.

 

[Skijumper Roglic fan]

Still no season debut race announced for Primoz.

Remco starts at Algarve, Pog Strade Bianche, Vinge Gran Camino.

Only Primoz has not announced yet when he‘ll have his season debut. Any speculations?…

 

[CyclistAbi]

Any speculations?…

Wednesday.

 

[Froome]

With the difference that Remco completely dominated Liege (without his strongest competitor), and Roglic barely won the Giro

It was a shame that tao hart and specially Remco had to give up from the Giro, let's forget of who would had won the Giro, one thing is sure, the Giro with those two until the end wouldn't be so boring.

It was a shame for the race seeing three wheelsuckers "fighting" for the victory until the end. The Giro deserves better.

 

[Oldermanish]

It was a shame that tao hart and specially Remco had to give up from the Giro, let's forget of who would had won the Giro, one thing is sure, the Giro with those two until the end wouldn't be so boring.

It was a shame for the race seeing three wheelsuckers "fighting" for the victory until the end. The Giro deserves better.

Major tours are a war of attrition for 3 weeks. A casual fan has no idea of the reserves of their favorites or villains so armchair analysis has become the province of Zwift power "techsperts" and other pundits. Few, if any has ridden a single race, let alone a pro race. Those that have will be quick to tell you that a stage race is a different animal where teams seek to work each other minute by minute. Be inattentive and the entire team effort is for nothing.
3 week stage races are the province a small group of pros that can perform per plan during that time, making adjustments as health and tactics dictate.
Calling someone a wheelsucker in a GT doesn't convey any strategic information unless you know the riders involved and their strategies for winning. It actually conveys no information at all except bias.

 

[Froome]

Major tours are a war of attrition for 3 weeks. A casual fan has no idea of the reserves of their favorites or villains so armchair analysis has become the province of Zwift power "techsperts" and other pundits. Few, if any has ridden a single race, let alone a pro race. Those that have will be quick to tell you that a stage race is a different animal where teams seek to work each other minute by minute. Be inattentive and the entire team effort is for nothing.
3 week stage races are the province a small group of pros that can perform per plan during that time, making adjustments as health and tactics dictate.
Calling someone a wheelsucker in a GT doesn't convey any strategic information unless you know the riders involved and their strategies for winning. It actually conveys no information at all except bias.

Each rider does the strategy he wants, wheelsucking is not illegal, so if they think they have more chances to win with that style of race.... that's ok. Personally i don't like that style of race, and for sure the majority of cycling fans also don't like that. It's not the style of race that made cycling popular, people want to see in grand tours attacks like pantani and contador did, attacks like pogi and vingegaard did, that's what bring more fans to the sport. There's a reason why the audiences in the last Tour de France were the best since 2006.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

So does anybody have a realistic chance to beat Skeletor at the Tour? Is Primoz the only hope for rest of the world? His maiden Tour victory would be something special. I dont have high hopes regarding Teddy with Giro in his legs.

 

[Potomac]

So does anybody has a realistic chance to beat Skeletor at the Tour? Is Primoz the only hope for rest of the world? His maiden Tour victory would be something special. I dont have high hopes regarding Teddy with Giro in his legs.

Skeletor is certainly the favorite from 6 months away, but winning the TdF isn't guaranteed by any stretch. Not that long ago Roglic was the heavy favorite, then Pogacar,.... now JV but for how long?

 

[Froome]

Skeletor is certainly the favorite from 6 months away, but winning the TdF isn't guaranteed by any stretch. Not that long ago Roglic was the heavy favorite, then Pogacar,.... now JV but for how long?

Unfortunately one crash and everything changes.

 

[Oldermanish]

Each rider does the strategy he wants, wheelsucking is not illegal, so if they think they have more chances to win with that style of race.... that's ok. Personally i don't like that style of race, and for sure the majority of cycling fans also don't like that. It's not the style of race that made cycling popular, people want to see in grand tours attacks like pantani and contador did, attacks like pogi and vingegaard did, that's what bring more fans to the sport. There's a reason why the audiences in the last Tour de France were the best since 2006.

Well....no, they don't. The team plans the effort so Jose' Rouleur doesn't go off on a glory escapade, bonk and fall out of the time limit costing them a valuable asset for 3 weeks. Also; the protected riders spend every second in a peloton and out of the wind (wheelsucking as you'd define it) until they reach a tactical feature and time that maximizes the effort to gain a gap or win. They don't freelance much because the team support has to respond. Tadej and Jonas going at it were part of two team plans that featured the same stage. It wasn't a sudden urge that made either of them go...far from it. They are prisoners of their wattage numbers and work within a plan or suffer the consequences.
Pantani and, to some extent Contador belonged to an era where there was much less parity on their specialty. Both climbers that could provide efforts that were virtually unchallengeable by their adversaries. There were other reasons for that dominance but they were very good.
Again, if Pogacar, Jonas or Roglic find a frisky Remco wheel they will follow it until he dies or until sprint time. They win, he loses. No special honor goes to the tractor.

 

[AmRacer]

Well....no, they don't. The team plans the effort so Jose' Rouleur doesn't go off on a glory escapade, bonk and fall out of the time limit costing them a valuable asset for 3 weeks. Also; the protected riders spend every second in a peloton and out of the wind (wheelsucking as you'd define it) until they reach a tactical feature and time that maximizes the effort to gain a gap or win. They don't freelance much because the team support has to respond. Tadej and Jonas going at it were part of two team plans that featured the same stage. It wasn't a sudden urge that made either of them go...far from it. They are prisoners of their wattage numbers and work within a plan or suffer the consequences.
Pantani and, to some extent Contador belonged to an era where there was much less parity on their specialty. Both climbers that could provide efforts that were virtually unchallengeable by their adversaries. There were other reasons for that dominance but they were very good.
Again, if Pogacar, Jonas or Roglic find a frisky Remco wheel they will follow it until he dies or until sprint time. They win, he loses. No special honor goes to the tractor.

Vinge's and Teddy's strategy is to drop Rogla and Remco. Jonas won't win an MTF sprint against any of the three others.

 

[Bolder]

Can't wait for 2024 Tour when Remco implodes Vuelta style on stage 14 on Tourmalet or some random hill with a random illness.

Can't tell if serious, but I want them all in the GC mix as long as possible. Stagehunter Remco is no fun.

 

[Gargamel35]

I would just like for all of them to be healthy and come to Tour with 100% preparation. Jonas came to last two Tours like that and went through them without any real injuries or sickness. That means A LOT. Pog was injured and had bad preparation, Rog crashed before or during Tour every single time in last how many years, Remco needs to show up finally.

So it's really hard not to consider Jonas as a big favourite. With 100% preparation and no problems during Tour, he looks incredibly good. Not just in mountains, even in TTs. Pog comes next, but loosing the last two Tours made him reconsider everything so now he'll have Giro in his legs. Not ideal.
Roglič is older, new team and equipment. If he manages to get to Tour with 100% preparation and no injuries (big IF) and manages NOT to crash during (big IF), then he can challenge for podium spot. Winning...even more IFs.
Remco is a wild card. I hope he doesn't put himself out of a race early. He can make it interesting. More there are, more chances to put a dent into skeletor.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Regarding crashes. Here i feel that although Roglič DNF his last two Tour editions he rode, one must still take circumstances under consideration. That is it was not due to things like bad bike handling skills or similar. Hay bale and Opi & Omi is just something beyond your control. You can't train for that. With Sony it might have been possible to play hard ball. But still, Opi & Omi already did the damage. In some cases JV could have done more protecting. So Bora this one is on you now.

So the chance of Rogla crashing is in my opinion no more significant then when looking at the other favourites. The only known and reliable fact is all of them will crash at the Tour at some point in their career. That is more or less a guaranty. Beyond that you try to improve and Rogla in my opinion did that. He is great on the bike now, mitigating a guarantee that comes with the job, such as a crash. For sure one of the best in doing that.

 

[CyclistAbi]

So does anybody have a realistic chance to beat Skeletor at the Tour? Is Primoz the only hope for rest of the world? His maiden Tour victory would be something special.

Yes.

I dont have high hopes regarding Teddy with Giro in his legs.

The time is right in my opinion, for riders attempting to achieve this. Pogi in my opinion should forget about the Tour for now. Winning Giro should be his main goal now. At the Tour he is still a type of rider that can crack riders like Jonas early. So any Giro-Tour attempt by Rogla, Pogi or Jonas should at this point in time be considered as realistic, extremely hard, but possible.