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@Froome

Rogla wanted to be under such pressure, that is at JV, but that was off the table. Now at Bora Rogla is even pressuring them into it. So i don't feel that Rogla is running away from such pressure.

Now if Jonas and Visma are really thinking in the way you wrote. We already won two ... If that is really the case, then they already lost. Personally i don't believe that. They have to win the Tour or the reality will hit hard.
 
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Can.



Somehow i feel that, at least until in contention, Rogla, Pogi and Jonas will only race to win. Remco likely trying to get at least one in difficultly.



The pressure is surely on Visma due to Jonas being the defending champion.



Rogla and Pogi could get aggressive and with few exchanges put Jonas in difficulty. Personally i feel that plan A should be for Jonas to be the initiator. And to try to make Jonas misfire once or twice.



This indeed makes more sense to me, Pogi might be too aggressive for that, though. Anyway, either case, Rogla must not lose time, going deep into the race, that will be the key. Bora playing a crucial role in supporting that.
I didn't said that Visma and vingegaard doesn't have pressure for the Tour. Certainly they have.

I was saying they are not the only one with pressure to win the Tour. Bora and roglic also have as many as pressure as them to win the Tour.

You said "the pressure is surely on Visma due to jonas being the champion", things don't work like that. A rider that never won the Tour, with not many chances left to win the Tour, and a team investing a lot in him, also have the pressure to win the Tour.
 
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I didn't said that Visma and vingegaard doesn't have pressure for the Tour. Certainly they have.

I was saying they are not the only one with pressure to win the Tour. Bora and roglic also have as many as pressure as them to win the Tour.

You said "the pressure is surely on Visma due to jonas being the champion", things don't work like that. A rider that never won the Tour, with not many chances left to win the Tour, and a team investing a lot in him, also have the pressure to win the Tour.

Yup, Rogla will likely have the biggest pressure of the Big4 (or on par with Vingo). It's Remco's debut and few expect him to win, Vingo and Pogacar are already multiple TdF champions and the latter will lower the pressure if he wins the Giro.
 
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I think Vingegaard has the greatest pressure _to win_ the Tour. It's much more of a failure for him if he ends up 2nd than it'd be for Rogla. His greatest pressure is to make it through and perform at his highest level. So it will be a success if he reaches his highest level in the Tour and avoids bad luck, even if that is not enough for the victory.
 
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I think Vingegaard has the greatest pressure _to win_ the Tour. It's much more of a failure for him if he ends up 2nd than it'd be for Rogla. His greatest pressure is to make it through and perform at his highest level. So it will be a success if he reaches his highest level in the Tour and avoids bad luck, even if that is not enough for the victory.
Doesn't the same go for Vingegaard though? If he has his best level, but somehow the Tour win evades him, that's not really a failure. It would probably involve some bad luck, or someone who's simply stronger. Everyone keeps saying Pogacar is the best cyclist on earth and Vingegaard can only beat him because he focuses on the Tour... so if Pogacar then beats him it's only a confirmation of what everyone already thinks.
 
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Doesn't the same go for Vingegaard though? If he has his best level, but somehow the Tour win evades him, that's not really a failure. It would probably involve some bad luck, or someone who's simply stronger. Everyone keeps saying Pogacar is the best cyclist on earth and Vingegaard can only beat him because he focuses on the Tour... so if Pogacar then beats him it's only a confirmation of what everyone already thinks.
I don't think so. He is expected to win, and if an opponent improves beyond Vingegaard's current level, it will be a failure for Vingegaard not to improve enough to beat him.
 
I didn't said that Visma and vingegaard doesn't have pressure for the Tour. Certainly they have.

I was saying they are not the only one with pressure to win the Tour. Bora and roglic also have as many as pressure as them to win the Tour.

You said "the pressure is surely on Visma due to jonas being the champion", things don't work like that. A rider that never won the Tour, with not many chances left to win the Tour, and a team investing a lot in him, also have the pressure to win the Tour.

When it comes to the Tour 2024 and given all the circumstances involved and in my opinion the biggest pressure to win is on Jonas and Visma. If they won't, then they kinda blew it.

They are the defending champion(s), arguably the best team in the peloton and they have made a choice, on what is in their opinion the best for them. Not winning the Tour is hence something that would demand answers and would leave consequences. The same can be said for their team car and the Tour DS(es).

P.S. When it comes to Rogla, some pressure will for sure be presented early in the season, till the first win, then it should be all good again.
 
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Of course Vingegaard is under the greatest pressure to win the Tour - he is twice defending champion and the overwhelming favorite. If he doesn't win the tour absolutely that would be viewed as a failure.

But I will still be hoping for an upset. I'd be pleased if it was either Pogacar or Roglic, but if Rogla can pull it off that would be a real fairy tail after 2020.
 
Doesn't the same go for Vingegaard though? If he has his best level, but somehow the Tour win evades him, that's not really a failure. It would probably involve some bad luck, or someone who's simply stronger. Everyone keeps saying Pogacar is the best cyclist on earth and Vingegaard can only beat him because he focuses on the Tour... so if Pogacar then beats him it's only a confirmation of what everyone already thinks.
The problem with this situation is Vingo cannot win a big race the whole year if he doesn’t deliver. It’s not clear he can peak again in the Fall to salvage the season
 
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The problem with this situation is Vingo cannot win a big race the whole year if he doesn’t deliver. It’s not clear he can peak again in the Fall to salvage the season
He was at a very high level all season and won lots. You think he didn't have the form to win the Vuelta after the tour peak?
 
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No. He said he was sick and couldn’t make a distinction from rivals (and teammates) on the time trial
What does a stomach bug have too do with his base shape and the possibility of coming to the fall with similar shape this year?

Saying he can't win a "big" race the whole year if he doesn't win the tour is just not what I take away from last season.
 
During the off season we have been hearing, by some, on how Jonas will annihilate everybody at the Tour. So now, when we are talking about the pressure, to win. Suddenly Jonas should be under no pressure, to win, and if he doesn't, it won't mean much?

Right.
 
What does a stomach bug have too do with his base shape and the possibility of coming to the fall with similar shape this year?

Saying he can't win a "big" race the whole year if he doesn't win the tour is just not what I take away from last season.
He’s raced all of these other things through the year. And never won any of them. How about he shows up and wins them before assigning victories ahead of time
 
During the off season we have been hearing, by some, on how Jonas will annihilate everybody at the Tour. So now, when we are talking about the pressure, to win. Suddenly Jonas should be under no pressure, to win, and if he doesn't, it won't mean much?

Right.
Who said that?


Even Remco will have pressure to win, because deep down he will put that pressure on him. That's his mentality.

The same for Roglic after his failure in 2020 + the fact he is not getting new and doesn't have a lot of opportunities to win the Tour + the pressure of deliver to Bora who is paying 4.5 M salary for him to win the Tour, not the Iztulia Tour.

If in your opinion you think he can beat Vingegaard in "a direct fight", why he shouldn't be with have a lot of pressure?

My opinion is Roglic’s can't beat directly Vingegaard because he can't even beat Pogacar. Pogacar's level is superior to Roglic’s level, that’s a realistic way of how things are, but if Roglic and Bora says his main goal is winning the Tour, then they have the pressure, just like Visma put a lot of pressure on themselves in the Tour 2022, because they're main goal was to win the Tour for the first time.
 
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Who said that?

Some claims were made that went in the direction of if Jonas doesn't win the Tour 2024, that would be a no biggie. Considering on how his supposed Tour superiority is praised, by some, well, that then just doesn't add up.

If in your opinion you think he can beat Vingegaard in "a direct fight", why he shouldn't be with have a lot of pressure?

My opinion is Roglic’s can't beat directly Vingegaard because he can't even beat Pogacar. Pogacar's level is superior to Roglic’s level, that’s a realistic way of how things are, but if Roglic and Bora says his main goal is winning the Tour, then they have the pressure, just like Visma put a lot of pressure on themselves in the Tour 2022, because they're main goal was to win the Tour for the first time.

Still, somehow i feel it's Rogla pressuring Bora into it. And meanwhile Rogla doesn't even race yet and already moving up:


Rather relaxed way of doing things if you ask me. March is near, though.
 
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During the last seasons some have even seen him do it, twice.

Exactly.

So saying Jonas and Visma are not under severe pressure, to repeat it in 2024, considering all the circumstances involved, that is just BS.

So in "prep" races i would say Roglič is under the biggest pressure, to win. As that would signal Rogla and Bora are on the right track. At the Tour, there Jonas and Visma basically must win, otherwise the season is lost, for them. Unless i guess van Aert & Co. has a breakthrough and wins a lot.