Why? They where there in the big group with everyone except Pogi/Jonas/remco/Carapaz. So their form is good enough to support Remco. Don't know what people expect.
-
The Cycling News forum is still looking to add volunteer moderators with. If you're interested in helping keep our discussions on track, send a direct message to
In the meanwhile, please use the Report option if you see a post that doesn't fit within the forum rules.
Thanks!
Pog is not happy that he couldn't beat Vinge today. He will keep trying and in the third week explode. Vinge is ready for one to two weeks, he'll also explode in the third. Remco will lose 1 hour until week three and stage hunt. Guess who will reach his best form in week three? Yup, Roglič will demolish everyone and later crash in meaningless stage sprint and DNF. So that makes Carapaz the winner.
Yeah & it's trivial.
The most interesting piece of information I've had in recent weeks was from Johan Bruyneel of all people, i.e. with his insider scoop about Pog's improved watts since the Giro & the 'racing conditions' test UAE carried out in training a couple of weeks ago where they simulated stage 19 with a Pog attack in which he put over a minute into Yates & Almedia. That was very interesting.
The reason I've bounced off almost every other podcast/youtuber like Lanterne Rouge/news outlet is because their entire schtick is to chat for an hour about something I've just watched with my own eyes... & draw absolute conclusions from that. It's boring.
I mean what are we supposed to say this evening? Carapaz is better than Rog & will beat him in this Tour? It's one stage. I have no idea whether Rog will get worse or better but none of us know how this will end.
He's just not there. Not today. Way too much out of position, bad legs and crazy Pog and Vinge. Remco and Carapaz would also loose a lot of time if this hill would be longer.
They were fine (Vlasov better than Rogla), but it was mostly about the rest of the team. He's stayed out of trouble so far, and they have been good in protecting him.
Cannot blame the team. Hindley and Vlasov have been loyal. Vlasov looked stronger than Roglic today. Jungels was among the last 30-35 guys yesterday. Dropped after a leadout into the last climb. Today he did the same job prior to the 2nd round of San Luca.
Concerning part isn't that Roglic was dropped by VIngegaard and Pogacar. Thats in line with my pre race expectations. But he wasn't even close to being the best of the rest. Not even among the top 10 GC guys on "his" climb.
If this is an uphill finish he is losing even more time. Can be happy that Ineos looked just as bad. They limited the damage on the flat.
Concerning part isn't that Roglic was dropped by VIngegaard and Pogacar. Thats in line with my pre race expectations. But he wasn't even close to being the best of the rest. Not even among the top 10 GC guys on "his" climb.
If this is an uphill finish he is losing even more time. Can be happy that Ineos looked just as bad. They limited the damage on the flat.
I feel that the approach to the stage two was right, don't try to win it, as it's not a MTF, or to do anything about increasing other leaders chances in winning it. As for time loss, ideally that would not happen, still once over the ultimate climb both Vlasov and Hindley were there, so best to regroup and mitigate the losses. In my opinion the strongest team, as a whole, will win this Tour edition and Bora was rather cohesive today in that regards. Hopefully Galibier further reassures them that Pogi and Jonas are already fighting for second place and Rogla to come on top deeper into the race.
I don't mean to pile on. But Rog lost about 40sec in less than 1k in his preferred terrain, and was dropped by Jorgenson, Carapaz and remco to name but a few.
It is not the start we wanted or he needed.
It is not the start we wanted or he needed.
View: https://x.com/ammattipyoraily/status/1807457271586120154
This clearly shows before the attack just how already cooked roglic was.
This clearly shows before the attack just how already cooked roglic was.
That was just yet another (very) hard hit to my belief in Rogla somehow showing us the tour performance we have been denied a realization in all these years.
I am running out of "excuses" this season.
We can only hope this were by far the worst legs he will have in this tour, no other explanation asked, because this really looked bad, otherwise the whole season has to be put under examination as to what went wrong. And how many such seasons at that age can you have before you have to question if the time has caught up.
Maybe (just pure hypothesizing) he just went too lean even for his standards to the point its causing problems, specially in the cold but also just general inconsistency in performance.
Do we give up if stage 4 also disappoints, or do we wait for a grand comeback until the time loss is just too great excluding voodoo stuff?
It is really not that easy being his fan, when I cheer for Pogačar, things are so much easier and more straightforward.
I am running out of "excuses" this season.
We can only hope this were by far the worst legs he will have in this tour, no other explanation asked, because this really looked bad, otherwise the whole season has to be put under examination as to what went wrong. And how many such seasons at that age can you have before you have to question if the time has caught up.
Maybe (just pure hypothesizing) he just went too lean even for his standards to the point its causing problems, specially in the cold but also just general inconsistency in performance.
Do we give up if stage 4 also disappoints, or do we wait for a grand comeback until the time loss is just too great excluding voodoo stuff?
It is really not that easy being his fan, when I cheer for Pogačar, things are so much easier and more straightforward.
Last edited:
Yeah just bad legs today. No way he should be gapped by Mas on a climb like that. On the other hand, Vingegaard and Pogacar crushed the previous record, which was held by Roglic, on this climb. Vingegaard is somehow in extremely good form.
It's a rollercoaster & always has been.
I mean sure I sort of watched that finale unfold with my head in my hands. That's clearly not what any of his fans wanted. Respect to Pog for seizing the moment though, i.e. it looked like he was the only rider who thought it was a good time to attack & take time on Rogla whereas the others either did very little (Vinge did the bare minimum pulling) or nothing at all. Maybe they'll regret that.
That's not copium BTW, i.e. Rog has a long history of proving doubters wrong - namely through displaying a helter-skelter form curve in which a very bad performance (like the Olympics road race) is followed by one of his best ever (Olympics ITT), or Monte Bondone in the Giro last year followed a few days later by Monte Lussari. There's also some historic 'scars' in there as well like the 2018 TdF with the podium loss in the ITT after his epic win in Laruns, i.e. in that respect the near 'collapse' we saw in the Dauphiné was totally in character. FYI his peaks are usually super performances that offset his time losses elsewhere. There's basically a 'narrative' which says he's a consistent performer all year long which misses the finer details, namely the fact he has serious ups & downs (this is a rider who gets dropped & always has done).
When do we 'give up'? If he gets dropped by his podium rivals on stage 14 on Pla d'Adet, it'll be game-over more or less. He could even afford to lose more time on Tuesday (it's not exactly unusual for a podium finisher to start slowly & finish strong) but by stage 14, he must have form.
That's because this Tour is very, very backended & other than the Galibier on stage 4, there's no real climbing test until stage 14.
The fluctuations you talk about can still lead to victory when your highs are a fair bit higher than your competition, but when you race Pogi and maybe a Jonas that can go the distance, fluctuations are not really allowed. There really have to manifest a very particular set of circumstances, before he can pull a rabbit out the hat after showing worrying form.
I don't think anyone is even talking about Pog & Vinge here or fighting them for the win, i.e. simply about the more pressing & immediate concern about Rog's prospects for the podium. It's about some of the conversations which are happening right now whereby Vlasov should be given freedom based on yesterday's stage results. Stuff like that.
What I'm saying is wait & see. Following every Formigal, there's often a Moncalvillo. Again, I'm not talking about winning the Tour, I'm simply talking about Rog showing what he can do in the GT & getting a good result.
I get your point and agree, still think he has a fair shot at the podium. I was mixing your views up with Albi's
I'll be honest here, i.e. of course I dream of him winning the TdF. I mean obviously. I don't want to drag another 'famous' name into this thread but I'd wager Evenepoel fans secretly dream of a TdF win as well. It's normal.
But life isn't a fairy-tale & I'm a total realist. I don't go around saying "he's going to win!" because life doesn't work like that & it also invites all sorts of problems, namely when it predictably doesn't materialize. There's a thousand other issues between now & a prospective podium anyway, such as A/showing decent enough legs tomorrow (without shipping too much time if does drop), B/surviving without incidents (especially today but also the gravel stage) & C/showing decent enough ITT form.
Then, if he gets through that little set of potential snafus, we can start to think about the Pyrenees.
That would be nice. Vlasov and Hindley in addition to Landa and Van Wilder gives Remco quite brilliant mountain support.
In my opinion is a bit deluded to say 'oh it's his bad day and if a bad day is 21 seconds lost then it's all ok'
For sure if Roglic cracked on plateau de belle and limited the loss to 21 seconds, maybe
But we have stage 2 on a climb were Roglic was not beaten by anyone from 2019-23, in conditions that suit him, and he totally flopped.
It's too early for it to be a bad day, he's literally just not good at the moment.
The one silver linning is that what happens in stage 2 is usually irrelevant by state 20
For sure if Roglic cracked on plateau de belle and limited the loss to 21 seconds, maybe
But we have stage 2 on a climb were Roglic was not beaten by anyone from 2019-23, in conditions that suit him, and he totally flopped.
It's too early for it to be a bad day, he's literally just not good at the moment.
The one silver linning is that what happens in stage 2 is usually irrelevant by state 20
I think it's to be expected it will probably take Bora as a team around 4-5 years to catch up with the likes of UAE, Jumbo & Ineos to be capable of winning Le Tour and they're really only in their third year proper as a GT squad after Sagan years. It took Sky 3 years and a lot of investment to catch up with Saxobank. If we take UAE being a reset of Lampre's darker years, them 4 years, if we take Lotto Jumbo being the reset of Rabobanks darker years then them 7 years to catch up with Sky.
Last edited:
Actually he was closing the gap to Vlasov and Ciccone here. Check some videos on X or IG. He was caught too far back, otherwise there's no way he wouldn't have been able to keep up with the first group.
TRENDING THREADS
-
Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread- Started by DNP-Old
- Replies: 29K
-
Teams & Riders The Great Big Cycling Transfers, Extensions, and Rumours Thread- Started by RedheadDane
- Replies: 11K
-
Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread- Started by LaFlorecita
- Replies: 51K
-
Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread- Started by Lequack
- Replies: 23K
-
-
Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives- Started by johnymax
- Replies: 19K
-
Teams & Riders Chris Froome Discussion Thread.- Started by Miburo
- Replies: 21K
Facebook
Twitter
Instagram