Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

[Krzysztof_O]

Not surprising that he withdrew, hopefully will recover quickly
12 stages against ETs is a perfect Vuelta preparation though, the whole Tour would be too much!

 

[Rackham]

Not surprising that he withdrew, hopefully will recover quickly
12 stages against ETs is a perfect Vuelta preparation though, the whole Tour would be too much!

I hope someone (either Vingegaard or Pog or both) absolutely smashes the coming weekend & the last week, i.e. so it leaves no doubt they're the best. Because if not & all 3 of them have bad days... then oh boy.

Imagine a scenario in which Pog's Loze collapse from last year happens to Vinge, Pog & Evenepoel at some point in the remaining stages?

Goddamn, that would redefine the definition of frustration.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I hope someone (either Vingegaard or Pog or both) absolutely smashes the coming weekend & the last week, i.e. so it leaves no doubt they're the best. Because if not & all 3 of them have bad days... then oh boy.

Imagine a scenario in which Pog's Loze collapse from last year happens to Vinge, Pog & Evenepoel at some point in the remaining stages?

Goddamn, that would redefine the definition of frustration.

Well, IMO there are question marks over 3-week consistency in case of both Pog and Vingo. But not necessarily Loze-format collapse. We will see, there is a decent chance that one of them avoids any major form lapse.

 

[CyclistAbi]

It just doesn't feel right. Rogla always respected this race, put months of work into it, changed teams, and then i feel that the race never really respected Rogla back. It just makes you question if it's still appropriate to respect this race that much, going forward. Season peak for sure, when participating, anything more than that, to not lose any sleep over it. There just needs to be some mutual respect involved, else on why bother. Why even to discuss things like age, peak level ... If you then can't even perform, as an elite athlete, on this specific race. In the end it's worthy, but not that worthy. I would never ever replace Rogličes professional career as a cyclist for a Tour win or two. Tour just doesn't come close. So if there is some specific issue with this race, that just doesn't suit Rogla, fourth year in a row. *** it.

 

[Rackham]

It just doesn't feel right. Rogla always respected this race, put months of work into it, changed teams, and then i feel that the race never really respected Rogla back. It just makes you question if it's still appropriate to respect this race that much, going forward. Season peak for sure, when participating, anything more than that, to not lose any sleep over it. There just needs to be some mutual respect involved, else on why bother. Why even to discuss things like age, peak level ... If you then can't even perform, as an elite athlete, on this specific race. In the end it's worthy, but not that worthy. I would never ever replace Rogličes professional career as a cyclist for a Tour win or two. Tour just doesn't come close. So if there is some specific issue with this race, that just doesn't suit Rogla, fourth year in a row. *** it.

I think the problem here is a problem of perception as well.

Roglič is the highest profile rider who suffers disasters at the Tour every time he goes. But there are lots of lesser known, lower profile riders who're suffering disasters all year long. I don't even know who to begin with just in this Tour, i.e. Pello Bilbao, Juan Ayuso & others. In other races we've seen Jay Vine fall again, again & again, hurting himself really badly in Itzulia.

Rog is basically a lightning rod for all things 'awful' in the Tour de France due to his history in the race. He causes arguments & crystallizes opinions regarding crashes & race safety. People only talk about him though because he's one of the best riders in the world.

Meanwhile I look at a rider like Fabio Jakobsen who was one of the best sprinters in the world a couple of seasons ago & now no one seems to care that he's had a horrible TdF with zero form. IMO that's a far worse fate than what Rog just suffered.

Better to go out with a bang, rather than a whimper.

 

[Sciatic]

I know. Zonnerveld was completely spot on here. As was Merijn Zeeman afterwards who said it was entirely the organization's fault.

Gouvenou is basically defending himself & the ASO by hiding behind a binary "leave it unmarked or pay 100,000 euros to remove them" choice which conveniently omits the fact there's a middle ground (indicating them) which you referred to.

It’s a crazy bit of infrastructure even for cars. If they just want a solid meridian why are there gaps (apparently to switch lanes, but then why have a meridian at all?

 

[Sciatic]

So what was the big red and white marking we could see?

The marking was only at the very beginning of that meridian, which then ended, and then appeared again with no markings whatsoever.

 

[11-34]

Today in an interview in German TV with Denk (Bora manager): "The team did nothing wrong. Not everyone can be in the front. "

True, so why even try ...

Denk: "The team was directly behind UAE".

Either he never saw the crash on TV or he meant Uno-X.

Its crazy how many teams are ahead of Bora. Looking at the replay it's also crazy how the three Uno-X riders avoided Lutsenko but Primoz is asleep at the wheel.

In this situation apparently Roglic is trying to pull his team back to the front. But just because of his crash proneness and lack of race awareness, you can't have him ride alone in front in a situation like this. Bora IMO is bad and lazy.

 

[Red Rick]

Today in an interview in German TV with Denk (Bora manager): "The team did nothing wrong. Not everyone can be in the front. "

True, so why even try ...

Denk: "The team was directly behind UAE".

Either he never saw the crash on TV or he meant Uno-X.

Its crazy how many teams are ahead of Bora. Looking at the replay it's also crazy how the three Uno-X riders avoided Lutsenko but Primoz is asleep at the wheel.

In this situation apparently Roglic is trying to pull his team back to the front. But just because of his crash proneness and lack of race awareness, you can't have him ride alone in front in a situation like this. Bora IMO is bad and lazy.

Anyone with half a brain can see Roglic' positioning issues. Jumbo managed it much better.

I also think now is not the time I'd talk much to Roglic about his positioning.

 

[Rackham]

Today in an interview in German TV with Denk (Bora manager): "The team did nothing wrong. Not everyone can be in the front. "

True, so why even try ...

Denk: "The team was directly behind UAE".

Either he never saw the crash on TV or he meant Uno-X.

Its crazy how many teams are ahead of Bora. Looking at the replay it's also crazy how the three Uno-X riders avoided Lutsenko but Primoz is asleep at the wheel.

In this situation apparently Roglic is trying to pull his team back to the front. But just because of his crash proneness and lack of race awareness, you can't have him ride alone in front in a situation like this. Bora IMO is bad and lazy.

Denk is covering for his team. Behind closed doors there will be an inquest as always & they'll determine what could have been done.

It was a huge disaster in any case.

Anyone with half a brain can see Roglic' positioning issues. Jumbo managed it much better.

I also think now is not the time I'd talk much to Roglic about his positioning.

What troubled me yesterday was at about the 20km to go mark, we could see Rog sitting on Evenepoel's wheel right on the front row, alone, without any teammates anywhere near him.

Then a few km's later he slipped back down the bunch to where his team was but continued riding in front of them until the crash.

 

[Carols]

Damn. Not surprised but very disappointed. I’ve said it on here many times, but being a Roglic fan = being a 2011-2017 Contador fan. I know firsthand. Nothing seems to come together, bad luck always strikes, but there are still moments of greatness and victory (but not the big one).

He Ruled for a couple of years before it became being like 2011-2017 Contador.

 

[bill1109]

He Ruled for a couple of years before it became being like 2011-2017 Contador.

I feel your pain. Have always been a roglic fan. But I like the new riders too. We must evolve.

 

[Carols]

Roglic is obviously prone to crash whatever the situation yesterday in the middle of the peloton the day before basically alone. Previously involved in the sprint or crashing in to hay. Changing the rules to adept to such a special rider compared to the others non crashers seems weird.

No rules were changed. What are you talking about?

 

[CyclistAbi]

This just doesn't sit right. Again devoting months towards the Tour goal, changing teams, again being there with the best, regardless of team lacking. Just starting to respond to Pogi attacks, wheel sucking Jonas, Remco in need of some reassurance from Pogi, Pogi blaming Rogla for Jonas success ... Then this.

And year after year, only on this race.

Respect is in my opinion just not reciprocal, the race needs to do more. It can't be positioning if you are hit at every position in the peloton, front, back or in the middle.

It's time Tour starts respecting back. For starters providing a stage on where such elite athletes can perform, from start to the finish. It's their job to make that happen. Otherwise i feel that respect to this race is overrated and should be adjusted accordingly. Anyway, enough about the Tour, long gone and not on the radar in foreseeable future. This years edition left some sour taste and i just had to spit that out. Phew.

 

[CyclistAbi]

So Remco being a teammate, a good or a bad idea? At least wheel sucking wouldn't be an issue any more? Personality wise are they even compatible? Remco playing the alpha male in the team and Rogla mentoring his balls? Likely greater chance of success then to put two peacocks like Pogi and Remco in the same team? Although, they seem to be buddies now. Said that, each having their own team behind, that is something that seems to be the most attractive option for fans. Would Remco risk it with a team such as Ineos? Specialized likely to play an important role in decision, or not? From Specialized point of view Remco switching teams will have an effect on Rogla one way or another.

In the end it likely comes down to money and the richest offer to likely persuade Remco. Lets see if this two once fierce rivals will now become teammates.

 

[Carols]

I feel your pain. Have always been a roglic fan. But I like the new riders too. We must evolve.

LOL, I'm older than dirt the first time my hero retired his name was Jacques and his magnificent career ended with a whimper. Another rider will come along and steal my heart. Meanwhile Rogla will always be in that place in my heart reserved for all the ones that were special to me.

 

[saunaking]

This just doesn't sit right. Again devoting months towards the Tour goal, changing teams, again being there with the best, regardless of team lacking. Just starting to respond to Pogi attacks, wheel sucking Jonas, Remco in need of some reassurance from Pogi, Pogi blaming Rogla for Jonas success ... Then this.

And year after year, only on this race.

Respect is in my opinion just not reciprocal, the race needs to do more. It can't be positioning if you are hit at every position in the peloton, front, back or in the middle.

It's time Tour starts respecting back. For starters providing a stage on where such elite athletes can perform, from start to the finish. It's their job to make that happen. Otherwise i feel that respect to this race is overrated and should be adjusted accordingly. Anyway, enough about the Tour, long gone and not on the radar in foreseeable future. This years edition left some sour taste and i just had to spit that out. Phew.

settle down. Rog crashes all the time, nothing to do with the tour or their organizers. Its already the best managed race in the world. You think they should just race around the le mans circuit for 20 days??? He would fall anyway

 

[movingtarget]

Still, Geraint Thomas was super strong in last year's Giro.

Modern sport also seems to favor longevity with its athletes more than in the past. I mean look at tennis, i.e. not just Djokovic but a guy like Struff who reached his career best level in his 30's.

We'll know more once the dust on this Tour has settled. Evidently the team isn't so great here (losing Vlasov pretty much sealed Rog's fate tbh considering he would have been very isolated in the mountains without him). There's also some Evenepoel to Red Bull transfer rumors flying around which we'll need to keep an eye on.

So who knows what the future holds. I have no particular 'hopes' either other than Rog finding his own peace & happiness, i.e. whether that's by coming back & smashing the Vuelta for number 4 or saying "f*ck it" & quitting the sport entirely because he's had enough. As a fan I'd obviously want him to return to his best & win big things but there's a form of selfishness to that which I can at least recognize. I mean the guy isn't immortal. He won't keep winning stuff just for our amusement forever.

And if this TdF has taught us anything it's that fairy-tales aren't universal. Winners get the fairy-tale, everyone else gets the disappointment.

I'm only talking about the Tour which usually has the best field. Thomas has done very well in his later years and almost won the Giro against a pretty weak field and a Roglic below his best and Thomas lost the race in the TT where he was always very good in previously. Thomas had another podium in the Giro this year and if he had targeted the Tour he would have been a top five prospect but his current TT level would have made it hard against riders like Remco for the podium. Ineos stocks have dropped in grand tours as Bernal is nowhere near the rider he was.. If Roglic has a similar late career trajectory to Thomas it wouldn't surprise. I still think he can win another Giro or Vuelta but the Tour will be tough now.

 

[RedheadDane]

settle down. Rog crashes all the time, nothing to do with the tour or their organizers. Its already the best managed race in the world. You think they should just race around the le mans circuit for 20 days??? He would fall anyway

Yeah, Roglic crashes a lot, but this time it was totally the organiserer's fault for leaving a bunch of unmarked traffic dividers on the route.
Best managed or not, this time they *** up.

 

[Rackham]

So Remco being a teammate, a good or a bad idea? At least wheel sucking wouldn't be an issue any more? Personality wise are they even compatible? Remco playing the alpha male in the team and Rogla mentoring his balls? Likely greater chance of success then to put two peacocks like Pogi and Remco in the same team? Although, they seem to be buddies now. Said that, each having their own team behind, that is something that seems to be the most attractive option for fans. Would Remco risk it with a team such as Ineos? Specialized likely to play an important role in decision, or not? From Specialized point of view Remco switching teams will have an effect on Rogla one way or another.

In the end it likely comes down to money and the richest offer to likely persuade Remco. Lets see if this two once fierce rivals will now become teammates.

One thing is obvious, i.e. having a dedicated team supposedly riding just for Rog made absolutely no difference whatsoever in this TdF 2024. After Vlasov's DNF he was a one man army in the mountains & his rouleurs for flat stages didn't exactly do anything for him on Thursday. I suspect yesterday's echelon stage probably would have gone to sh*t as well if he'd still been in the race.

So I really, really don't care about the Evenepoel rumors. Red Bull can do whatever they want with their money.

I'm only talking about the Tour which usually has the best field. Thomas has done very well in his later years and almost won the Giro against a pretty weak field and a Roglic below his best and Thomas lost the race in the TT where he was always very good in previously. Thomas had another podium in the Giro this year and if he had targeted the Tour he would have been a top five prospect but his current TT level would have made it hard against riders like Remco for the podium. Ineos stocks have dropped in grand tours as Bernal is nowhere near the rider he was.. If Roglic has a similar late career trajectory to Thomas it wouldn't surprise. I still think he can win another Giro or Vuelta but the Tour will be tough now.

I think we're way past the time for saying "winning the Tour will be tough now".

I think right here & now I'm mostly concerned about just how much Rog was riding based on his motivation to do well in the Tour. It was the whole point for leaving Visma in the first place, i.e. to have his own team leadership in the TdF.

That went up in smoke. So... we have to see whether the rider still has motivation to put in the massive effort required to win stuff in the remaining races this season. That's the mental aspect Rolf Aldag was talking about yesterday.

 

[Low is rhe new high]

No rules were changed. What are you talking about?

You have to read what i was replying to, otherwise you will not get the context. My reply was to a discussion were some guys wanted to apply the 3km rulle for 10 km.

 

[SHAD0W93]

When Roglic does retire, hopefully he doesn’t have any regrets about the Tour de France. Especially 2020 and 2024. He’s had a stellar career if a win doesn’t come up in the future and can add his own piece of history winning TdS next year.

 

[BullsFan22]

When Roglic does retire, hopefully he doesn’t have any regrets about the Tour de France. Especially 2020 and 2024. He’s had a stellar career if a win doesn’t come up in the future and can add his own piece of history winning TdS next year.

Maybe he can win the TDS this year? Will he have enough time to fully recover?

 

[Red Rick]

Here's my take.

Roglic will never race Tour de Suisse.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Maybe he can win the TDS this year? Will he have enough time to fully recover?

Unfortunately he cannot win TdS this year but he did win at CdD. The race is in June.