Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

[Peyroteo94]

No, he wouldn't be second at all. He is miles behind Jonas...

 

[Rackham]

No, he wouldn't be second at all. He is miles behind Jonas...

Dude who cares?

I mean look at Evenepoel, i.e. climbed better than he's ever done before & he got totally butchered out there.

I think a few GC riders in the peloton will be asking themselves existential questions tonight, aka in the "WTF am I doing with my career" variety.

There's no competing versus what we just watched.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Top 2 would've been on the cards dudes.

Here. This is nonsense. Roglic has no business against Jonas.

 

[Rackham]

Here. This is nonsense. Roglic has no business against Jonas.

I'll take that as a compliment tbh.

 

[Scarponi]

Dude who cares?

I mean look at Evenepoel, i.e. climbed better than he's ever done before & he got totally butchered out there.

I think a few GC riders in the peloton will be asking themselves existential questions tonight, aka in the "WTF am I doing with my career" variety.

There's no competing versus what we just watched.

Can’t even go stage hunt anymore. GT winners Hindley and Carapaz destroyed. Is everyone destined to help the big 2 lol

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Well, at least, as Rackham has been saying, it’s pretty tough to view this as a lost opportunity so far. As much as I love Roglic, I don’t see him beating Pantani’s time by 4 minutes. I’d like to thank he could have been with Remco. I don’t think he would have been with Vingegaard, nor in the Rodriguez group, but we’ll never know. You can now see why Roglic, Remco, Pogacar, and Vingegaard can paradoxically all be so confident: They’re likely putting up insane numbers in training and capable of beating Pantani apparently; it’s just some can beat him by more than others…

 

[proffate]

Can’t even go stage hunt anymore. GT winners Hindley and Carapaz destroyed. Is everyone destined to help the big 2 lol

Ugh not another two party system

 

[AmRacer]

Dude who cares?

I mean look at Evenepoel, i.e. climbed better than he's ever done before & he got totally butchered out there.

I think a few GC riders in the peloton will be asking themselves existential questions tonight, aka in the "WTF am I doing with my career" variety.

There's no competing versus what we just watched.

It has always been like that.

 

[svit]

No, he wouldn't be second at all. He is miles behind Jonas...

You don't know that. I don't know that. Nobody knows that because he wasn't there...

 

[Rackham]

Roggo - there is still time to build a time machine and go beat up schmucks like Bernal or Froome or Contador or whatever

I'd like to compare Primož Roglič to Sebastian Vettel.

Vettel was fast but his Ferrari was not fast enough, so he'd overdrive & invariably crash or spin.

Why is this relevant? Because people underestimate just how much energy is required to sit on the front of the bunch during a 200km transition stage, or fight for position constantly. Look at Vingegaard & Pog: Yes, they're very capable when it comes to positioning themselves (like during the echelon stage) but they clearly don't care about energy loss, in any scenario. They always have the punch to jump back to the front during the peloton's washing machine effect, no problem.

I've long theorized Rog is punching above his weight & is constantly energy saving way more than his rivals. This puts him at a disadvantage pretty much everywhere. Positioning isn't about simply having strong teammates or the nose for sensing what to do (or some mythical bike handling malarkey), it's also about legs. It always was.

So yeah, Roglič crashes. No, Rog isn't as good as these other guys aka Pog & Vinge. But a hell of a lot of his problems have come from overriding & being on the raggedy edge, just like an F1 driver overdriving an inferior car.

 

[Gargamel35]

It's just two aliens against mortals like Roglič and Remco who are still better then the rest of the bunch.

What can you do? They will keep trying to up each other and the rest are just observers. I hope Primož drops his Tour ideas. It's a playground for two top teams with two aliens. Why be there and fight for scraps?

Unfortunately Red Bull will probably send him in the slaughterhouse again next year.

 

[AmRacer]

I'd like to compare Primož Roglič to Sebastian Vettel.

Vettel was fast but his Ferrari was not fast enough, so he'd overdrive & invariably crash or spin.

Why is this relevant? Because people underestimate just how much energy is required to sit on the front of the bunch during a 200km transition stage, or fight for position constantly. Look at Vingegaard & Pog: Yes, they're very capable when it comes to positioning themselves (like during the echelon stage) but they clearly don't care about energy loss, in any scenario. They always have the punch to jump back to the front during the peloton's washing machine effect, no problem.

I've long theorized Rog is punching above his weight & is constantly energy saving way more than his rivals. This puts him at a disadvantage pretty much everywhere. Positioning isn't about simply having strong teammates or the nose for sensing what to do (or some mythical bike handling malarkey), it's also about legs. It always was.

So yeah, Roglič crashes. No, Rog isn't as good as these other guys aka Pog & Vinge. But a hell of a lot of his problems have come from overriding & being on the raggedy edge, just like an F1 driver overdriving an inferior car.

But Rogla changed car and it didn't seems to help.

 

[acm]

He exchanged the best car for a worse one.

 

[Rackham]

But Rogla changed car and it didn't seems to help.

Saving energy for week 3.

The fact this was so emphasised says it all, really. He didn't stand a chance unless he saved bullets. It obviously still wouldn't have been enough & he would have been somewhere in no man's land between Vingegaard & Evenepoel today IMO.

 

[Rackham]

He exchanged the best car for a worse one.

I wonder how Bora are honestly going to talk about 'winning the Tour' next year like they're totally serious.

I mean they can go ahead & add Evenepoel if they want (if the rumors are to be believed) but they'd only be assuring 3 & 4 on the podium in whatever order depending on the route & race scenario.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I wonder how Bora are honestly going to talk about 'winning the Tour' next year like they're totally serious.

I mean they can go ahead & add Evenepoel if they want (if the rumors are to be believed) but they'd only be assuring 3 & 4 on the podium in whatever order depending on the route & race scenario.

They are going for 4th consecutive TdF top2 (no pair in history achieved that, even in a non-consecutive way). The scariest thing about it is that they are still only 25 and 27 yo!

 

[AmRacer]

They are going for 4th consecutive TdF top2 (no pair in history achieved that, even in a non-consecutive way). The scariest thing about it is that they are still only 25 and 27 yo!

Mental stats

 

[Samu Cuenca]

They are going for 4th consecutive TdF top2 (no pair in history achieved that, even in a non-consecutive way). The scariest thing about it is that they are still only 25 and 27 yo!

However we'll see if they will start declining at a younger age (there's of course also a chance that some other super freak(s) will enter the scene soon).

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Multiple references to Remco’s legendary climb up Lo Port here. My memory must be failing me because I seem to remember someone finishing in front of him on that climb…

Greatest Climbing Performances Of All-Time on Plateau de Beille | Tour de France 2024 Stage 15 - Lanterne Rouge

Tadej Pogačar and Jonas Vingegaard both did the best and second-best climbing performance of all time on the Plateau de Beille climb, making this the greatest climbing stage of all time.

lanternerouge.com

 

[acm]

I wonder how Bora are honestly going to talk about 'winning the Tour' next year like they're totally serious.

I mean they can go ahead & add Evenepoel if they want (if the rumors are to be believed) but they'd only be assuring 3 & 4 on the podium in whatever order depending on the route & race scenario.

No idea...

 

[lenric]

think he's toast when it comes to the tour. sadly, but it's just the way it is

 

[CyclistAbi]

think he's toast when it comes to the tour. sadly, but it's just the way it is

Yeah, Rogla abandoned the race after stage 12.

 

[Rackham]

Multiple references to Remco’s legendary climb up Lo Port here. My memory must be failing me because I seem to remember someone finishing in front of him on that climb…

Greatest Climbing Performances Of All-Time on Plateau de Beille | Tour de France 2024 Stage 15 - Lanterne Rouge

Tadej Pogačar and Jonas Vingegaard both did the best and second-best climbing performance of all time on the Plateau de Beille climb, making this the greatest climbing stage of all time.

lanternerouge.com

These watts data nerds are so useless they boggle the mind.

It's just rampant fanboyism for their favorite riders combined with circlejerking over superpowers like we're watching an MCU movie.

We don't know the actual numbers. It's just guesswork. The teams don't exactly communicate rider weight, do they? Influencers have been surfing on the back of this sport in recent years whilst pedalling their own brand of snake oil with one purpose: clicks & engagement.

 

[Peyroteo94]

These watts data nerds are so useless they boggle the mind.

It's just rampant fanboyism for their favorite riders combined with circlejerking over superpowers like we're watching an MCU movie.

We don't know the actual numbers. It's just guesswork. The teams don't exactly communicate rider weight, do they? Influencers have been surfing on the back of this sport in recent years whilst pedalling their own brand of snake oil with one purpose: clicks & engagement.

Yeah, for that reason we should just look to VAM (easy to calculate), time gaps and climbing records to assess performance. Yesterday Pogacar was phenomenal because he exceeded our expectations in all these 3 categories.

 

[Berniece]

Yeah, for that reason we should just look to VAM (easy to calculate), time gaps and climbing records to assess performance. Yesterday Pogacar was phenomenal because he exceeded our expectations in all these 3 categories.

Climbing records don't say anything really.