However we'll see if they will start declining at a younger age (there's of course also a chance that some other super freak(s) will enter the scene soon).
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However we'll see if they will start declining at a younger age (there's of course also a chance that some other super freak(s) will enter the scene soon).
Multiple references to Remco’s legendary climb up Lo Port here. My memory must be failing me because I seem to remember someone finishing in front of him on that climb…
lanternerouge.com
Greatest Climbing Performances Of All-Time on Plateau de Beille | Tour de France 2024 Stage 15 - Lanterne Rouge
Tadej Pogačar and Jonas Vingegaard both did the best and second-best climbing performance of all time on the Plateau de Beille climb, making this the greatest climbing stage of all time.
lanternerouge.com
think he's toast when it comes to the tour. sadly, but it's just the way it is
Multiple references to Remco’s legendary climb up Lo Port here. My memory must be failing me because I seem to remember someone finishing in front of him on that climb…
Greatest Climbing Performances Of All-Time on Plateau de Beille | Tour de France 2024 Stage 15 - Lanterne Rouge
Tadej Pogačar and Jonas Vingegaard both did the best and second-best climbing performance of all time on the Plateau de Beille climb, making this the greatest climbing stage of all time.
These watts data nerds are so useless they boggle the mind.
It's just rampant fanboyism for their favorite riders combined with circlejerking over superpowers like we're watching an MCU movie.
We don't know the actual numbers. It's just guesswork. The teams don't exactly communicate rider weight, do they? Influencers have been surfing on the back of this sport in recent years whilst pedalling their own brand of snake oil with one purpose: clicks & engagement.
Yeah, for that reason we should just look to VAM (easy to calculate), time gaps and climbing records to assess performance. Yesterday Pogacar was phenomenal because he exceeded our expectations in all these 3 categories.
Depend mate. Of course most climbs have a weak record and easy to break for this new generation of riders (Galibier from south, Perthus, Grappa). But beating records from Pantani? Hum... this give us some information. Beating Pantani by almost 4 minutes where Froome was 2 minutes off? This is remarkable. If they bring Alpe d'Huez or Mont Ventoux back next year and Pogi/Vingo break Pantani's record, we know they made a legendary ride. I could say the same about Hautacam. These climbing records shouldn't be underestimated. So what Pogacar did yesterday, was really the best performance ever in a mountain stage.
Like I already said in the Remco topic, first of Pogacar got a big leadout that Pantani never got. On top of that he's riding in a completely different era. People like to say we can't take Merckx into account because that was a different era, but then compare Pantani of 26 years ago and use that as a correct benchmark.
Not saying what we saw yesterday wasn't immensely impressive, it was, but climb records don't say much, and definitely not with such a gap over time in it.
Fully believe Rog too would have done career best climbing numbers yesterday, even if dropped by Teddy and Johnny
In the end on who really cares, i don't, this race ended for Rogla on stage 12 so much more important races now to come.
As for some takeaways, in a way i look positively on what i seen, that is after stage 12 Rogla was still in the fight and on an upwards trajectory. So good results on GT races seem to still be possible, riding for the new team. That is actually great, especial when comparing on how far ahead UAE and Visma are. Jorgenson and Yates, for example, on how much they progressed, joining this two teams, compared to riding for their previous teams, not to talk about team leaders. So in no way am i taking it for granted, that Rogla stayed competitive, joining a new team. In regards to GT racing, the next goal hence being to finish and to finish high.
In regards to Olympics, the verbal agreement seems to be, for Rogla to decide in next day or two, then selector to visit finale of the Tour in Nice, to talk to other cyclists and for final decision to be made. At least that is what Murn said in an interview.
So i guess there is still a chance of Rogla doing Olympics. Fingers crossed.
As for some takeaways, in a way i look positively on what i seen, that is after stage 12 Rogla was still in the fight and on an upwards trajectory. So good results on GT races seem to still be possible, riding for the new team. That is actually great, especial when comparing on how far ahead UAE and Visma are. Jorgenson and Yates, for example, on how much they progressed, joining this two teams, compared to riding for their previous teams, not to talk about team leaders. So in no way am i taking it for granted, that Rogla stayed competitive, joining a new team. In regards to GT racing, the next goal hence being to finish and to finish high.
In regards to Olympics, the verbal agreement seems to be, for Rogla to decide in next day or two, then selector to visit finale of the Tour in Nice, to talk to other cyclists and for final decision to be made. At least that is what Murn said in an interview.
So i guess there is still a chance of Rogla doing Olympics. Fingers crossed.
Sorry Primoz fans but he is way past his prime and will never win the Tour unless Tadaj, Jonas, and Remco are not in the race. His best chance of winning the TdF was when he was in his prime and beaten by a still developing Tadaj. Now Tadaj is even stronger than when he won his first TdF and Primoz is weaker, and will continue to get weaker year after year unless he finds he is missing something in his training and nutrition. But I think Visma would have identified any training or nutritional shortfalls when he was still riding for them.
Rog is probably not getting weaker. It's not an accurate assessment.
What's happening is he's not getting as strong as the others. I mean take Landa for example: he's stronger now than ever before. There's no 'decline' there.
It's just the progression curve of the main two is such that someone gaining a few % year-on-year will get obliterated by someone gaining 10%.
Current Rog probably demolishes 2020 Rog. But that's still nowhere near enough to win the Tour.
Totally agree, why we cannot even compare performances in the same time trial where a rider starts thirty minutes after another with speed wind changes, wind direction changes and even pressure changes.
That's a fun "what if" game to play, i.e. imagine Pogi Poggers in the 2002 Tour de France? He'd put 6 minutes into Lance on the Plateau de Beille.
Then he'd get to have dinner with the president of the United States & date Sheryl Crow.
Then he'd get to have dinner with the president of the United States & date Sheryl Crow.
Astana management would still convince him to babysit Aru
For context, Pantani put a full 1:30 seconds into noted climbing legend Bobby Julich, whose time was still in the Top 10 before yesterday. He was the best of the rest of the GC riders that day. I don’t think Pantani’s record was all that impressive on that particular climb, just that circumstances and race strategy have probably prevented it from being broken until yesterday. I don’t remember every finish I have seen at PdB, but the only other one I even remember being all that important was in 2007 when Contador vs The Chicken was a bunch of stop start accelerations. It was amazing to watch, but slowed them down.
Analysing crashes, 2021, 2022 and 2024 edition. So basically it's flat stages, on where disaster hit. It all started with getting crashed out while riding at the front, then three crashes happening somewhere in the belly of the peloton, some of them in the line of a chance meteor hitting. Going forward hence some risk will still be needed, at the end of flat stages, team keeping Rogla at the front. As for the rest of flat stages i feel the best strategy is to trade time for health and to ride further back in the peloton, to purposely avoid any risk. We'll see.
P.S. In 2023 Rogla didn't even had to crash out, he was not even selected, at 2024 edition he would likely be used to launch Jonas on stage 15, riding for Visma, all to no avail. So still some positives to take from it and to rather build on that, going forward. Crash and all taken into consideration, it's still better, then the alternative.
P.S. In 2023 Rogla didn't even had to crash out, he was not even selected, at 2024 edition he would likely be used to launch Jonas on stage 15, riding for Visma, all to no avail. So still some positives to take from it and to rather build on that, going forward. Crash and all taken into consideration, it's still better, then the alternative.
Question for him is if he wants to continue to chase the Tour pipe dream or if tries to maximize his palmares.
Maximize his palmarès with what?
Pog hinted he wanted to go back to the Giro. Vingegaard will try for the Vuelta at some point again (this year or next). Hell, Pog will probably try for the Vuelta at some point as well. Mrs. Vingegaard hinted last year Vingegaard could do all 3 GT's in one season (I read that in an article somewhere).
Everywhere you look, everywhere you turn, whenever you think you're alone... you're not. Pog & Vinge will be there to spoil the party.
The 'only' window he maybe has in this year's Vuelta but I won't hold my breath (just like the pros don't hold their breath when they're inhaling carbon monoxide at altitude training...).
Really hope he will make it to the Vuelta. He deserves a proper shot at a GT this year. I was being very sceptic and called him lucky to not sit further minutes behind Pog before the Pyrenees (and I stand by that), but his performance on stage 11 was an uplifting one in an otherwise mediocre year. Very high level and despite it not being being a "real" mountain stage, it was still hella hard. Now I know he won Dauphine, but I was not at all convinced by that performance, so the level is definitely still there somewhere if everything goes right, its just that we don't see that level that often anymore and the more worrying part is obviously that there's no way in hell you win against Pog and Vingegaard operating at these levels.
Think he can win the Vuelta this year depending on how long his crash and the injuries from that lingers him now.
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