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Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

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CyclistAbi

May 29, 2019
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This just doesn't sit right. Again devoting months towards the Tour goal, changing teams, again being there with the best, regardless of team lacking. Just starting to respond to Pogi attacks, wheel sucking Jonas, Remco in need of some reassurance from Pogi, Pogi blaming Rogla for Jonas success ... Then this.

And year after year, only on this race.

Respect is in my opinion just not reciprocal, the race needs to do more. It can't be positioning if you are hit at every position in the peloton, front, back or in the middle.

It's time Tour starts respecting back. For starters providing a stage on where such elite athletes can perform, from start to the finish. It's their job to make that happen. Otherwise i feel that respect to this race is overrated and should be adjusted accordingly. Anyway, enough about the Tour, long gone and not on the radar in foreseeable future. This years edition left some sour taste and i just had to spit that out. Phew.
 
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CyclistAbi

May 29, 2019
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So Remco being a teammate, a good or a bad idea? At least wheel sucking wouldn't be an issue any more? Personality wise are they even compatible? Remco playing the alpha male in the team and Rogla mentoring his balls? Likely greater chance of success then to put two peacocks like Pogi and Remco in the same team? Although, they seem to be buddies now. Said that, each having their own team behind, that is something that seems to be the most attractive option for fans. Would Remco risk it with a team such as Ineos? Specialized likely to play an important role in decision, or not? From Specialized point of view Remco switching teams will have an effect on Rogla one way or another.

In the end it likely comes down to money and the richest offer to likely persuade Remco. Lets see if this two once fierce rivals will now become teammates.
 
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Carols

Carols

Mar 20, 2010
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bill1109 said:
I feel your pain. Have always been a roglic fan. But I like the new riders too. We must evolve.
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LOL, I'm older than dirt the first time my hero retired his name was Jacques and his magnificent career ended with a whimper. Another rider will come along and steal my heart. Meanwhile Rogla will always be in that place in my heart reserved for all the ones that were special to me.
 
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saunaking

Jul 22, 2010
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CyclistAbi said:
This just doesn't sit right. Again devoting months towards the Tour goal, changing teams, again being there with the best, regardless of team lacking. Just starting to respond to Pogi attacks, wheel sucking Jonas, Remco in need of some reassurance from Pogi, Pogi blaming Rogla for Jonas success ... Then this.

And year after year, only on this race.

Respect is in my opinion just not reciprocal, the race needs to do more. It can't be positioning if you are hit at every position in the peloton, front, back or in the middle.

It's time Tour starts respecting back. For starters providing a stage on where such elite athletes can perform, from start to the finish. It's their job to make that happen. Otherwise i feel that respect to this race is overrated and should be adjusted accordingly. Anyway, enough about the Tour, long gone and not on the radar in foreseeable future. This years edition left some sour taste and i just had to spit that out. Phew.
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settle down. Rog crashes all the time, nothing to do with the tour or their organizers. Its already the best managed race in the world. You think they should just race around the le mans circuit for 20 days??? He would fall anyway
 
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movingtarget

Aug 5, 2009
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Rackham said:
Still, Geraint Thomas was super strong in last year's Giro.

Modern sport also seems to favor longevity with its athletes more than in the past. I mean look at tennis, i.e. not just Djokovic but a guy like Struff who reached his career best level in his 30's.

We'll know more once the dust on this Tour has settled. Evidently the team isn't so great here (losing Vlasov pretty much sealed Rog's fate tbh considering he would have been very isolated in the mountains without him). There's also some Evenepoel to Red Bull transfer rumors flying around which we'll need to keep an eye on.

So who knows what the future holds. I have no particular 'hopes' either other than Rog finding his own peace & happiness, i.e. whether that's by coming back & smashing the Vuelta for number 4 or saying "f*ck it" & quitting the sport entirely because he's had enough. As a fan I'd obviously want him to return to his best & win big things but there's a form of selfishness to that which I can at least recognize. I mean the guy isn't immortal. He won't keep winning stuff just for our amusement forever.

And if this TdF has taught us anything it's that fairy-tales aren't universal. Winners get the fairy-tale, everyone else gets the disappointment.
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I'm only talking about the Tour which usually has the best field. Thomas has done very well in his later years and almost won the Giro against a pretty weak field and a Roglic below his best and Thomas lost the race in the TT where he was always very good in previously. Thomas had another podium in the Giro this year and if he had targeted the Tour he would have been a top five prospect but his current TT level would have made it hard against riders like Remco for the podium. Ineos stocks have dropped in grand tours as Bernal is nowhere near the rider he was.. If Roglic has a similar late career trajectory to Thomas it wouldn't surprise. I still think he can win another Giro or Vuelta but the Tour will be tough now.
 
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RedheadDane

RedheadDane

May 5, 2010
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saunaking said:
settle down. Rog crashes all the time, nothing to do with the tour or their organizers. Its already the best managed race in the world. You think they should just race around the le mans circuit for 20 days??? He would fall anyway
Click to expand...

Yeah, Roglic crashes a lot, but this time it was totally the organiserer's fault for leaving a bunch of unmarked traffic dividers on the route.
Best managed or not, this time they *** up.
 
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Rackham

Rackham

Jul 16, 2015
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CyclistAbi said:
So Remco being a teammate, a good or a bad idea? At least wheel sucking wouldn't be an issue any more? Personality wise are they even compatible? Remco playing the alpha male in the team and Rogla mentoring his balls? Likely greater chance of success then to put two peacocks like Pogi and Remco in the same team? Although, they seem to be buddies now. Said that, each having their own team behind, that is something that seems to be the most attractive option for fans. Would Remco risk it with a team such as Ineos? Specialized likely to play an important role in decision, or not? From Specialized point of view Remco switching teams will have an effect on Rogla one way or another.

In the end it likely comes down to money and the richest offer to likely persuade Remco. Lets see if this two once fierce rivals will now become teammates.
Click to expand...

One thing is obvious, i.e. having a dedicated team supposedly riding just for Rog made absolutely no difference whatsoever in this TdF 2024. After Vlasov's DNF he was a one man army in the mountains & his rouleurs for flat stages didn't exactly do anything for him on Thursday. I suspect yesterday's echelon stage probably would have gone to sh*t as well if he'd still been in the race.

So I really, really don't care about the Evenepoel rumors. Red Bull can do whatever they want with their money.

movingtarget said:
I'm only talking about the Tour which usually has the best field. Thomas has done very well in his later years and almost won the Giro against a pretty weak field and a Roglic below his best and Thomas lost the race in the TT where he was always very good in previously. Thomas had another podium in the Giro this year and if he had targeted the Tour he would have been a top five prospect but his current TT level would have made it hard against riders like Remco for the podium. Ineos stocks have dropped in grand tours as Bernal is nowhere near the rider he was.. If Roglic has a similar late career trajectory to Thomas it wouldn't surprise. I still think he can win another Giro or Vuelta but the Tour will be tough now.
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I think we're way past the time for saying "winning the Tour will be tough now".

I think right here & now I'm mostly concerned about just how much Rog was riding based on his motivation to do well in the Tour. It was the whole point for leaving Visma in the first place, i.e. to have his own team leadership in the TdF.

That went up in smoke. So... we have to see whether the rider still has motivation to put in the massive effort required to win stuff in the remaining races this season. That's the mental aspect Rolf Aldag was talking about yesterday.
 
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Valv.Piti

Valv.Piti

Aug 3, 2015
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SHAD0W93 said:
When Roglic does retire, hopefully he doesn’t have any regrets about the Tour de France. Especially 2020 and 2024. He’s had a stellar career if a win doesn’t come up in the future and can add his own piece of history winning TdS next year.
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Its only natural to have regrets about 2020. They played it very conservatively and that looked to be a fine strategy, but Pog decided to make his entrance. You can't account for that really, nobody did, because Roglic had shown previously that in theory he should be the hot favorite to win a stage like that, so the time gap seemed like it should be enough 95 of 100 times. Thats bike racing and Pog won it fair and square, but that was obviusly a big blow for him as he was the best GT (or at least considered) in that season specifically. He was the man.

2021 was more a case of 50/50 on paper going into the race, but everything suggests to me Pog would still have made a different to Grand Bornand. From there on its everyone's guess whether he could claw back some time. With Jonas being extremely good, and Pog looking human later in the race, Rog could have made a really interesting race and could have won the race potentially. Jonas stood no chance, but Rog would have made it closer.

2022 I think his overall level was visibly lower than 19 and 21 and specifically 20 and Jonas was flat out just stronger. He contributed to his downfall on Galibier, but Jonas would in all likelyhood still have won. He was simply the best rider in the race, so no regrets here IMO. It was out of reach due to his level being a bit lower and Pog and specifically Jonas being mutant.

2024, realistically he was in trouble on every single stage that mattered from San Luca, Galibier, Troyes and Le Lioran. To make matters worse he wasn't actually respected as a genuine contender to win on San Luca (they visibly slowed), Galibier (UAE could have put the nail in the coffin) or Troyes (was dropped multiple times, but Visma and UAE didn't seem to care that much about it). Put in a very good effort in the TT, but unless Pog and Vinge crashes or has HUGE offdays, he wouldn't stand a chance of winning the whole thing, but after Le Lioran he looked like a slight favorite for podium against C-Rod and Remco which IMO was the best display of the season.
 
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svit

May 20, 2023
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Rogla planned to be in his best form in 3rd week at 2024 TDF. And his form actually improved as shown in 11th stage. So yes, it's really a bummer that Lutsenko "decided" to take out as many rides as possible in that curve.

The thing I hate the most is that we will never know how good he would be and whether he can realistically try again next year.

I know that he has 2 max 3 shots to win the tour and I hope he will die trying to win it.
 
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CyclistAbi

May 29, 2019
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SHAD0W93 said:
When Roglic does retire, hopefully he doesn’t have any regrets about the Tour de France. Especially 2020 and 2024. He’s had a stellar career if a win doesn’t come up in the future and can add his own piece of history winning TdS next year.
Click to expand...

Rogla already is record holder in this regards so technically he doesn't need to go after ToS. As for all the Tour nonsense talk. No need to respect this race ATM, by talking or dwelling about it. It's a GT stage race, whenever participating it makes sense to invest around two months into it, anything more than that, thanks but no thanks. So Tour will become relevant in around 10 months time again, if other things won't get in the way.

At this moment races like Clásica de San Sebastián takes precedence. Facts.
 
benzwire

benzwire

Jul 27, 2010
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Red Rick said:
Here's my take.

Roglic will never race Tour de Suisse.
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He needs to do the opposite of what he's been doing. He needs to pull a Constanza, it may work out!

opposite.jpeg
 
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CyclistAbi

May 29, 2019
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I agree that changing ways and respecting Tour less, as a stage race, that is indeed the way to go forward, to not listen to the instincts telling you otherwise. If they still are. Having the outmost respect and doing everything in your power, that was not rewarded. So continuing to approach it in such way, Einstein said it well, on when it comes to such repetitional things in terms of the outcome. So a bit fat, unshaven, making babies during the race ... You name it. Last thing is to take it seriously again and for the race to again repaying you in such way. Thanks but no thanks.

As for the rest of the season. That seem to work just fine, no need to change much there, the more important part of the season.
 
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