Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

[Devil's Elbow]

The race is missing him so f*cking badly. Pogacar would dominate regardless but right now every single rider in the top ten is happy about where they are, except maybe Rodriguez who just isn't strong enough. Nobody has any interest in doing anything.

I don't think it really matters. Had he been in a position where he needed to attack, I doubt he tries much more than Evenepoel did here. Had he been in a position where others needed to attack him, I doubt Evenepoel and Vingegaard had much more in them than they showed today.

 

[Red Rick]

The race is missing him so f*cking badly. Pogacar would dominate regardless but right now every single rider in the top ten is happy about where they are, except maybe Rodriguez who just isn't strong enough. Nobody has any interest in doing anything.

Will he crash will he do something for 3rd place is definitely 20x the excitement that Pogacar has brought in any race bar Sanremo

 

[CyclistAbi]

Primož Roglič o tem in onem pred dirko po Franciji

Nemško kolesarsko moštvo, za katero vozi slovenski junak Primož Roglič, je v Salzburgu predstavilo spremenjeno ime moštva. Po novem je zasavski orel kapetan ekipe Red Bull-Bora-Hansgrohe.

www.dnevnik.si

A nice pre Tour race interview. Interesting fact, the Douglac DC-6B was apparently commissioned by Tito. Anyway, when asked about tactics and stages. Rogla responded if you are strong then attacking for bonus seconds makes sense, otherwise better to save strength. His favourite stage being stage 21 and wishing to get to there.

Now we got to see the first part, rather saving strength then to push head through the wall. As for his favourite stage, stage 21, Rogla never made it, disaster struck and Rogla went MIA.

So in my opinion, Rogla would be happy to finish this race. I know he would never give up to finish in top one group or in the secondary, that is top 3 one, he would be fighting regardless. Now we know after all that Jorgenson was not just anybody, beaten at the Dauphiné.

Now on why a rider of such calibre didn't get a real chance, to perform, at the Tour for the past four years. In the end all things happen for a reason and i am sure that Tour has something great still installed for Rogla. They will find and come to peace, till then lets still do some racing!

 

[CyclistAbi]

Considering Olympics are just around the corner, here is a list of Slovenian Olympic gold medallists:

1. Leon Štukelj (1924, 1928)
2. Miro Cerar (1964, 1968)
3. Alenka Cuderman (1984)
4. Rolando Pušnik (1984)
5. Iztok Čop (2000)
6. Rajmond Debevec (2000)
7. Luka Špik (2000)
8. Primož Kozmus (2008)
9. Urška Žolnir (2012)
10. Tina Maze (2014)
11. Tina Trstenjak (2016)
12. Benjamin Savšek (2020)
13. Primož Roglič (2020)
14. Janja Garnbret (2020)

Olimpionik - Wikipedija, prosta enciklopedija

sl.wikipedia.org

This year marks 100th anniversary of the first Slovenian Olympic gold medallist, Leon Štukelj, won at the Summer Olympics 1924 held in Paris. After skipping the 1932 edition, here is a nice clip of Leon performing at the Berlin 1936 edition, aged 37, winning silver:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Wf0covd9tY


Some good company Rogla being in.

 

[red_flanders]

The race is missing him so f*cking badly. Pogacar would dominate regardless but right now every single rider in the top ten is happy about where they are, except maybe Rodriguez who just isn't strong enough. Nobody has any interest in doing anything.

Hmmm. His forte seems to be riding a pace in a group or in the wheel and using his powerful sprint to grab seconds at the line. Not sure how that would have changed the dynamics of the race that much. Maybe he pulls another 12-20 seconds in bonuses? Maybe none? I mean it would have been a bit more interesting if he was in the race, but I don't see where the "race is missing him so badly".

The race macro-dynamics have been a dominant Pogi, a shockingly strong but fading Vingo, and a surprisingly strong and consistent Remco. At best he would have been in there with them, at worst...well the worst happened unfortunately. Looking at what he actually did in the race, he just wasn't quite as strong as the others, but not far off.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Hmmm. His forte seems to be riding a pace in a group or in the wheel and using his powerful sprint to grab seconds at the line. Not sure how that would have changed the dynamics of the race that much. Maybe he pulls another 12-20 seconds in bonuses? Maybe none? I mean it would have been a bit more interesting if he was in the race, but I don't see where the "race is missing him so badly".

The race macro-dynamics have been a dominant Pogi, a shockingly strong but fading Vingo, and a surprisingly strong and consistent Remco. At best he would have been in there with them, at worst...well the worst happened unfortunately. Looking at what he actually did in the race, he just wasn't quite as strong as the others, but not far off.

I would say that is his best relative strength and the strategy he uses when he thinks it will be successful, which is often, but he has shown a willingness to ride aggressively (some would say recklessly) when he thinks that is necessary to win. See how he crashed out of the 2023 Vuelta. Often, though, he either has it (mountain sprint) or does not (hangs in until he cracks), so he hasn't showcased that too much. I think we would have seen some interesting moves, attacking over the top of penultimate climbs, etc. But Remco did make a similar type move yesterday so I wouldn't say everyone is being complacent. Vingegaard has certainly tried, too.

 

[red_flanders]

I would say that is his best relative strength and the strategy he uses when he thinks it will be successful, which is often, but he has shown a willingness to ride aggressively (some would say recklessly) when he thinks that is necessary to win. See how he crashed out of the 2023 Vuelta. Often, though, he either has it (mountain sprint) or does not (hangs in until he cracks), so he hasn't showcased that too much. I think we would have seen some interesting moves, attacking over the top of penultimate climbs, etc. But Remco did make a similar type move yesterday so I wouldn't say everyone is being complacent. Vingegaard has certainly tried, too.

I don't think we're saying anything different about what his main tactic is and what his strengths are. I said "forte", you said often...

I saw no evidence of him being fit enough to make an attack on a penultimate climb, but more to the point we didn't see him do it, because if he tried he would have simply been marked. What we saw was him slipping off the back on several stages, and on one stage following an attack until he blew.

And I agree, Vingo and Remco have not been complacent. They're just at the limit, they've done all they can.

 

[CyclistAbi]

And I agree, Vingo and Remco have not been complacent. They're just at the limit, they've done all they can.

So you assume that would be enough? To hold Rogla back? Anyway, there will be races to come and for such dynamics to again be at play.

P.S. Apparently Rogla was almost hit by a car, one day before his Olympics Tokyo ITT performance. Training on the route was made possible and public traffic was there too. Damn.

 

[Miha81]

So if I read correctly the decision about Vuelta 2024 will be made after end of Tour?

 

[red_flanders]

So you assume that would be enough? To hold Rogla back? Anyway, there will be races to come and for such dynamics to again be at play.

Is that what I said? I made a comment about Vingo and Remco, in response to a comment which I quoted. Had nothing to do with Roglič. It was a comment about their efforts over the last couple of days, Roglič is literally not in the race.

Maybe you aren't a native english-speaker and some things are getting lost in translation, but several times in the last few weeks you've responded to my posts as if I've said something (or many things) which I didn't say. In the US that's known as a straw man fallacy.

I would appreciate if in the future, you could more carefully read what I'm saying and respond to that, rather than a straw man you've created. I won't respond in the future except to maybe point out a straw man argument. I'm more than happy to respond to questions/refutations/arguments against things I've actually said.

Respectfully, this isn't a good way to interact with someone's content.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@red_flanders

No, nothing got lost in translations. @Gigs_98 argued still having Rogla in the race would likely attribute to different dynamics, compared to now on where the state of thing look rather settled. Your respond went more in the direction that no, it wouldn't make much difference at this point.

In my opinion it would make all the difference. That is if Rogla would be fighting to finish in top 5, he would make a move today or tomorrow, if Rogla would be fighting to finish on the podium, he would make a move today or tomorrow, if Rogla would be fighting to finish second overall, he would make a move today or tomorrow, if he would still be in position to win the overall, he would make a move today or tomorrow.

Like he always has in the past. So the dynamics would indeed likely be different. After all, he already finished second, at the Tour, he wants to finish higher.

 

[red_flanders]

@red_flanders

No, nothing got lost in translations. @Gigs_98 argued still having Rogla in the race would likely attribute to different dynamics, compared to now on when things look settled. Your respond went more in the direction that no, it wouldn't make much difference at this point.

In my opinion it woudl make all the difference. That is if Rogla would be fighting to finish in top 5, he would make a move today or tomorrow, if Rogla would be fighting to finish on the podium, he would make a move today or tomorrow, if Rogla would be fighting to finish second overall, he would make a move today or tomorrow, if he would still be in position to win the overall, he would make a move today or tomorrow.

Like he always has in the past. So the dynamics would indeed likely be different. After all, he already finished second, at the Tour, he want to finish higher.

Your general point in this post is reasonable, even if I disagree with your position. You do see however, that you didn't make this general comment last time, you asked a very specific question which totally misrepresented my comment, a comment which had nothing to do with Roglič. That's a strawman. Not the first time.

Speculating where a rider might have finished...well I'm not sure where that gets ya. What we saw while he was in the race was a rider a bit over a minute back of 3rd, who had been distanced by the top 3 numerous times. He was somewhat lucky not to be down a fair bit more. But he was stronger than anyone else, that seemed clear. He showed that he was 4th best, until it became moot. Unfortunate, but not changing the dynamics of the race in any big way that I can see. Certainly it's always better if all the top riders are there until the end. But that's about all I can say.

 

[acm]

P.S. Apparently Rogla was almost hit by a car, one day before his Olympics Tokyo ITT performance. Training on the route was made possible and public traffic was there too. Damn.

What?

 

[CyclistAbi]

@red_flanders

OK, i hear you, but this is Rogličes thread and @Gigs_98 made an argument about Roglič. So i could have indeed easily missed the point.

@acm

Rogla mentioned it in series about Olympics, on RTV Slo.

 

[Gargamel35]

Looks like this is now an era of two aliens with record numbers and ugly heads are beginning to rise. More and more people are questioning the results and future will tell us what breakfast made them both so incredible. One is toying with everybody race after race all season and his team looks to be just as incredible. The other spent weeks in hospital with heavy injuries, barely comes back and kicks 200 cyclists - 1 in the ass with no problems at all. And than crys because he didn't beat the other alien. What the hell?

As a pro rider that's not part of this program in UAE and Visma, what do you do?

I think Remco is next and he will also reach alien hights in next years.

As of Roglič, he will remain known as being the best human among aliens of this era. He tried. Time to ride into the sunset with couple final stomps on races that don't include aliens.

 

[Rackham]

I agree that this one feels different.

It's like previously when he had a huge slice of bad luck he'd always bounce back, but now? I don't know anymore. I don't even know what the point is tbh i.e. beyond adding a few lines to his palmarès with some stuff.

I've said before that the one week races are becoming harder & harder to win because big teams & riders are now aiming for them (like Paris-Nice which had Jorgenson peaking for the spring classics dominate the race). As Rog said himself, there are a lot of rockets. These are not preparation races anymore, i.e. they're integral to collecting UCI points for teams like UAE & Visma in the 'race' they're engaged in with each other to be the best.

The Vuelta? It'll be UAE's duo Almeida/Yates versus everyone else. It won't be easy - especially if Rog is carrying some sort of back problem or has a bad preparation (we saw what that resulted in 2022 when Rog was dropped in the first week by Evenepoel & Mas). Do I still believe he can win stuff? Hell yes. Am I way more cautious with regards to predicting possible victories than I was 3 years ago? Hell yes as well.

The numbers we've seen in the Tour were delirious. The days of Pog versus Rog seem like a lifetime ago. Now it's Nils freaking Politt b*tch slapping the peloton in the mountains whilst Visma's leader cries because he didn't win the biggest bike race in the world.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

It would have been nice to see him competing for second here against Vingegaard and Remco. I think he would have taken some time back these last couple of days.

 

[svit]

Roglic, if able, should try to win Vuelta 2024 and then try again in the next Tour and then again.

He should keep trying until he finishes the Tour thoroughly beaten by aliens ...

 

[zlev11]

he would've won the stage today

 

[CyclistAbi]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lv3muTWxk9k

 

[CyclistAbi]

Tour as a stage race indeed is a tough cookie for Rogla. In past four years achieving nothing, on where at minimum, if finishing, Rogla likely to podium each year. Said that and luckily Rogla is a a tough cookie too, i am sure that desired results at the Tour are still to come.

 

[acm]

Tough times for Rog. I heard rumours he is thinking about ending his career... hope that's not true.

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

Tough times for Rog. I heard rumours he is thinking about ending his career... hope that's not true.

That would suck, not a good way to go out.
I hope he'll be back in shape for the Vuelta, should usually have a pretty good shot at it. Also Martinez and Lipowitz should make for good support in the mountains (if the latter lives up to his promise)

 

[Rackham]

Tough times for Rog. I heard rumours he is thinking about ending his career... hope that's not true.

I'll admit that thought had crossed my mind since the crash (without any info either).

The whole reason he left Jumbo & went to Bora was for the Tour. It was his motivation.

Zeeman even tried to talk him out of the Tour two years ago but Rog didn't want to hear it. So I don't think it's a stretch to imagine this is probably a sort of pivotal moment in his career.

 

[Salvarani]

I'll admit that thought had crossed my mind since the crash (without any info either).

The whole reason he left Jumbo & went to Bora was for the Tour. It was his motivation.

Zeeman even tried to talk him out of the Tour two years ago but Rog didn't want to hear it. So I don't think it's a stretch to imagine this is probably a sort of pivotal moment in his career.

He cant compete with Pog or Vinge. After this Tour you have to include Remco as well.

They are too good now and arguably has been for at least the past two years (2023-2024).

2022, he maybe could have hanged with them (Pog and Vinge).

Now it is over.

Whats the talk? Will he do the Vuelta now this season?

Next year he probably should do Giro+Vuelta. Then maybe retire. His contract will be up and he will be 36.

And if Remco going to RB, he will do Tour. Unless PL stands on business and says you have contract with me. We will see, I guess.