Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

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Denz about Roglič today: "He was super attentive, always riding at the front, feeling good, and I thought,here we go, he's in race mode. In a roundabout after the descent, Carapaz slipped and took Primoz down with him...then he was in pain and out."

I mean... Cycling gods must somehow repay him for this misfortune. :(

https://www.cyclingmagazine.de/2025/05/12/giro-2025-twitter-tagebuch-mit-nico-denz-via-bluesky/
I'd totally agree. I had projected he and Carapaz going away on today's stage when folks wrote him off last week. Knowing how he's ridden against Richard in the past he might've done OK today. No reason to feel that the wrecks up to today would have allowed him to win but at least get his training in.
As it stands he is likely in really good fitness/form if the nicks and dings allow him to train. I don't think this season will end without a result he likes.
 
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As much as I'd love to believe that he would have been with Pellizzari today, it wouldn't have made sense for him to abandon so promptly after a minor* crash if he were feeling so good. Not saying that this crash was an excuse, it might have been minor on its own but still exacerbated existing physical issues (and psychologically it probably was the straw that broke the camel's back).

*Assuming it was indeed minor, I'm going off of how other people described it.
I really think there is far more psychology involved than people think. Something tells me the stupid unlucky timelosses contributed to him dropping like a stone on sunday and abandoning today.
 
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And I don't deny at all that personal responsibility is a factor or that the TT recon crash was his own fault.

But people will call out positioning, cite Del Toro as the new prime example of how to do it, when he's like 10 places behind Roglic when the gravel crash happens, or Del Toro gets credited for avoiding trouble in the Nova Gorica crash where he also crashes just like everyone else. And then today, he's reportedly taken down by a direct competitor, who by the way ends up completely unharmed and being strongest of the GC favorites while Rog can't continue.

So "why isn't he just in the right place" doesn't hold much water for me, when it there's large crashes with many riders.
To the bolded, didn't del Toro also go down then or am I confusing it with another incident in which Roglic fell (there are so many it's hard to keep track)? I was asking about the "right place," however, in the context of so frequently being in the wrong place. There are some riders who seem to have an instinct for being positioned to avoided crashes, but Roglic is clearly not among them. I don't think this can only be chalked up to "good luck" any more than Roglic's situation can be primarilly ascribed to "bad luck," rather to better or worse racing craft.
 
So this is on how having the Giro blues feels like. Damn, it's deep.

Thank you Rogla for making me feel, master composer.

I was way more depressed after Paris-Nice 2022. And last year's Paris-Nice as well. Bad legs are always a concern. Hell, Dauphiné 2022 when Vingegaard climbed with a finger in his nose was a serious downer as well.

But crashes happen and DNF's are just a part of his story. I'm pretty sure he's got a good baseline here this season and he'll show his climbing form in July.
 
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I love the part where he claims someone else is a danger to other riders when he's gets taken out by other riders all the time and they never get called out for it.

This is just a guy needlessly kicking down because reasons.

And no, I don't have to respect the guy's take because hes a WT pro, because just like pro's bicyclists are not superhumans who are completely unbiased and who don't buy into memes and narrative.
 
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The Schachmann story is old and he's a hypocrite as well because he's crashed countless times himself. There's always one or two guys to mouth off and say something stupid about a fellow rider. Nils Politt was abusive in a podcast last year as well (saying Rog crashed in the TdF stage 11 where no one else crashed ergo haha what a joke) and then his leader Pogi decked it in Strade (really hard actually) where no one else did either.

Most of the time it's just mind-games and trying to find an angle to put pressure on a rival team and rider.
 
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yeah how about the Australian Ineos guy on the gravel stage who way out of position and completely useless for his team so he had to take a big risk to get back in position and crashed all on his own and took out like 4 GC contenders, where are all the posts about how he cant ride his bike?

The Australian guy Hamilton, who was at the head of the peleton with his team coming into the gravel sector. All riders make mistakes and crash because of their errors. Finally, stop making up false narratives and abusing riders.
 
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The Australian guy Hamilton, who was at the head of the peleton with his team coming into the gravel sector. All riders make mistakes and crash because of their errors. Finally, stop making up false narratives and abusing riders.

The only rider getting abused on the topic of Primož Roglič is of course Primož Roglič.

Again and always. He's the only rider who gets singled out when there's a pile up for not miraculously leaping over the mass of bodies falling before him.
 
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Not really true. Same is said about Evenepoel when you see him taking corners. These riders just get more attention because their results seem to be more impacted by their skills compared to others.

Sure. I won't argue with that. The whole Bambi thing was also just B.S.

Cycling 'influencers', journalists and podcasters in particular can be real jerks. There's a race to the bottom where clickbait is achieved by posting the most asinine takes to generate traffic. Dumping on Rog right now is one of the usual go-to methods, but it impacts others as well. But I mean no offense to someone like Bernal because we all like the guy but he's had way, way more embarrassing crashes in recent years (like yesterday) and no one says anything.

It means actual bias against certain riders spills into every aspect of the rider's racing, included in the appraisal of his crashes.

As for Rog, his coach believes he's mentally fine right now and will prepare for the Tour with an altitude camp in Tignes (& on the positive side of things now has an extra week's prep towards the Tour):

 
Sure. I won't argue with that. The whole Bambi thing was also just B.S.

Cycling 'influencers', journalists and podcasters in particular can be real jerks. There's a race to the bottom where clickbait is achieved by posting the most asinine takes to generate traffic. Dumping on Rog right now is one of the usual go-to methods, but it impacts others as well. But I mean no offense to someone like Bernal because we all like the guy but he's had way, way more embarrassing crashes in recent years (like yesterday) and no one says anything.

It means actual bias against certain riders spills into every aspect of the rider's racing, included in the appraisal of his crashes.

As for Rog, his coach believes he's mentally fine right now and will prepare for the Tour with an altitude camp in Tignes (& on the positive side of things now has an extra week's prep towards the Tour):

Pogacar -> everyone bows down to the overlord.

Vingegaard ->> haha fish factory boy doesn't race enough

Evenepoel ->> ragequits a monument but barely anyone questions the excuses

Van der Poel ->> Basically the son of God himself over here, and when he crashes in RVV because he decided to sit in 400th position where he shouldn't be nobody cares, nor does anyone care about going a full 4/4 in first lap DNFs in MTB

Van Aert ->> when he crashes heavily he's the poorest boi out there. He's also too precious to do any domestique work for anyone and the only pressure he does get is he gets called washed quickly. Mostly his team gets the blame half the time

Pedersen ->> Calls everyone around him stupid while riding like he's allergic to neurons

The only rider who's anywhere close to getting the same amount of *** for dumb reasons is Ayuso at the moment.
 
I agree it's all about the cost of their crashes. Rogla lost at least 3 GT podiums by crashing out of the GT and I can't think of another rider who's done that. Of course this may have at least as much to do with his superior GT form consistency over the years as with his average bike handling/positioning skills but that cost is out for all to see and it's understandable Roglic gets criticized more than guys who are missing top 10 spot due to crashing out.

There is an issue however that Roglic is becoming a meme for crashing out and that's just not fair. There are so many much more positive aspects of his career pundits could focus on such as borrowing his friends MTB at 22 to kick ass on amateur road races and proceeding to be better than 99% of lifelong bike racers or overcoming psychological adversity to actually have a meaningful career after losing out in a manner that should have crushed his spirit for good.

I don't think the narratives are balanced here and I really hope his career won't be summed up by "the guy who always crashed"...
 
I agree it's all about the cost of their crashes. Rogla lost at least 3 GT podiums by crashing out of the GT and I can't think of another rider who's done that. Of course this may have at least as much to do with his superior GT form consistency over the years as with his average bike handling/positioning skills but that cost is out for all to see and it's understandable Roglic gets criticized more than guys who are missing top 10 spot due to crashing out.

There is an issue however that Roglic is becoming a meme for crashing out and that's just not fair. There are so many much more positive aspects of his career pundits could focus on such as borrowing his friends MTB at 22 to kick ass on amateur road races and proceeding to be better than 99% of lifelong bike racers or overcoming psychological adversity to actually have a meaningful career after losing out in a manner that should have crushed his spirit for good.

I don't think the narratives are balanced here and I really hope his career won't be summed up by "the guy who always crashed"...

Bias from pundits from particularly overrepresented countries. Geraint Thomas 'lost' the chance to seriously win the 2020 Giro when he hit a bidon in the neutral zone before a stage and crashed out. But he's "one of the lads" and his Eurosport buddies go super easy on him. Tony Martin was the panzewagen who ended up visiting various ditches of Europe on a regular basis. Again, no one really said anything.

But let's be honest here the real thing that makes all of these people throw mud at Rogla's "bike handling" is because he skipped all the junior categories and clubs. He's a self-made champ basically and that riles up the system jockeys so they cling to something that undermines his achievements.
 
Pogacar -> everyone bows down to the overlord.

Vingegaard ->> haha fish factory boy doesn't race enough

Evenepoel ->> ragequits a monument but barely anyone questions the excuses

Van der Poel ->> Basically the son of God himself over here, and when he crashes in RVV because he decided to sit in 400th position where he shouldn't be nobody cares, nor does anyone care about going a full 4/4 in first lap DNFs in MTB

Van Aert ->> when he crashes heavily he's the poorest boi out there. He's also too precious to do any domestique work for anyone and the only pressure he does get is he gets called washed quickly. Mostly his team gets the blame half the time

Pedersen ->> Calls everyone around him stupid while riding like he's allergic to neurons

The only rider who's anywhere close to getting the same amount of *** for dumb reasons is Ayuso at the moment.
I think you are exaggerating on how much *** Roglic gets thrown at him.
 
This is just an attempt at relativization. Basically similar to saying it doesn't really matter if 100 riders crash or 1 crash, as there will always be crashes. This in the end is just such a meme, an excuse if you will, for being lazy and for not taking any responsibility for it. And indeed as a result then we get the whole GC bunch crashing at mini SB at Giro.

Well any sort of putting things into perspective can be called 'relativization'. There is nothing to conclude from my post that would justify accusing me of making a statement logically equivalent of "if 100 riders crash or 1 crash" doesn't matter. Mass crashes aren't even the issue with gravel and cobbled stages at all because the selection makes this increasingly unlikely. You just hold the dogmatic assumption that cobbles and gravel are much more dangerous and produce an unacceptable amount of crashes relative to other surfaces.
It's not that we didn't have crashes, severe ones, on the standard surfaces as well. And many standard surfaces hold similar risks, especially given bad weather. That was my point. You in turn, instead of at least addressing what I am saying turn around to insult me. Bad style.

Lack of any sort of basic decency, when it comes to improving riders safety. Commentators on ES apologising all the time, this is just what cycling is, all about injuring athletes. Day after day after day. Do you really feel that doing it like that, this sport has any meaningful future, outside die hard fans? Until this improves cycling won't be a mainstream sport, the overall public image, on when it comes to safety, is just too bad.

I am not, as you suggesting, against rider safety. But what I am is against trying to eliminate all risks from life. My point was that I don't think you'll have road racing as a super safe sport. Hell you can't even ride your bike privately without risks, especially when not wearing a helmet, and that's not factoring in traffic.
Also I don't think that the safety aspect is what keeps cycling from being mainstream. It's really not very healthy to play football or egg-shaped football at all. The only way to make them safer would be to ban the way they are played altogether. And this is in many cases true for cycling as well. Being a pro athlete is not healthy in general in the long run for most people.
Which is not to say that absurd risks should be taken, or super dangerous stuff should be included in the races. I just don't think that the idea holds up that cobbles and gravel are so much more dangerous than say a hilly race on narrow roads on wet roads and a technical course. There's risk involved in taking part in these races and take it up as a job. But then the risk comes with the job. And cycling is much less dangerous than a lot of the work humans have to do on this planet for worse pay, less interest in their safety and much worse medical assistance. Your moral revulsion would be better employed there. That doesn't mean though that dangerous jobs should be banned, some are necessary, some just pay well and people decide to take the risk. It's not that cyclist are lied to about what their sport entails before they join and are then forced to stay in cycling for example.
So my point is: there are risks that can be expected to be taken by cyclists, and I don't think the risk of going over cobbles/gravel falls into the category of risks that aren't asked of pro-cyclist per se just by being pro-cyclists.

But I guess here lies where we really disagree: I think humans are allowed to do risky stuff.
 
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Imagine if Steven Kruijswijk (I love the guy but this is a real point here) was contesting GC in every race he entered? His win/DNF ratio would be just as impressive as Rog's.

And that's something else going on here, i.e. Rog literally fights for GC in every race he's in - usually without a huge buffer in terms of level so it's a real dogfight most of the time. So crashes have a big impact.
 
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I think you are exaggerating on how much *** Roglic gets thrown at him.
I don't.

Narratives are situational, they aren't always around. But the bias shows when something does happen and then you can clearly see it in how much people pile on.

Roglic is pretty much the only rider where multiple other riders have thought it was perfectly fine to just go "lol he crashes a lot" despite the fact that plenty other riders crash more often and get injured more often.
 
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Where people are heavily invested in a rider, they will focus on any perceived weakness of the main rivals of said rider. 90% of "Roglic can't handle a bike" could be rephrased as "Roglic's latest fall is good news to me because it gives me a feeling of one-upmanship for having chosen the rider I did as my favourite."

And the same applies to "Pogacar is predictable", "Vingegaard doesn't race enough", "Evenepoel is temperamental" etc etc

All of these guys are phenomenal, and most of us would give our proverbial right arms to have the ability and courage of any one of them. (literally trading a limb would be self defeating). How dare we let partisanship blind us to that?