Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

[Carols]

So really the way I see it Roglic would have needed his best time trial ever, surpassing himself, to win the TDF.

Totally agree. Even Indurain would have needed to be at his Best to beat Tadej yesterday!

 

[Red Rick]

Toatally agree. Even Indurain would have needed to be at his Best to beat Tadej yesterday!

I wish we could time travel back and have Indurain set up with modern ITT tech

 

[roundabout]

Roglic best time trial ever -> beating Remi Cavagna by 1 minute in a TT with a first category climb in it?

 

[DFA123]

To be fair, Porte saved some energy on the flat part it looked like. But yes, Roglic had an under-par/bad day.

Looked about par for him in the 3rd week of a GT.

 

[bajbar]

Looked about par for him in the 3rd week of a GT.

The fact is with every rider in last years form (yes, even Bernal) he would win quite comfortably. Unfortunatelly for him a certain rider made some huge steps forwards (not only from last year, but if you saw where he was at the start at the Dauphine where he lost more than a minute on the first MTF and was behind like 10 or 15 riders)

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Didnt Pog already beat Rog in a TT this year ?

Yes, by :9 in a non-target race. Surely that doesn’t indicate he will win the Tour TT by 1:21 over TT specialists?

He's the one who brought Armstrong up in regards to Pogacar's TT.

OK I exaggerated, but I just spot checked TYs from 1999, 2003, and 2005. Lance lost several of them and his biggest win was by :56, which is, of course, less than 1:21.

 

[BlueRoads]

I think Roglic could have been better on the climb, if he had paced himself for the best time. But they gave him the time splits and by the start of the climb I think he knew he had to risk everything and then cracked a bit on the climb. He was almost blue during the final k.
Still, Porte's time was amazing by itself, saying "look, he did not even beat Porte" does not do justice to everyone's performance, I think. The absolute times tell us a bit about how we can rate these rides.

 

[perico]

I wish we could time travel back and have Indurain set up with modern ITT tech

He would have set the best time and then had the same look on his face that Dumoulin did.

 

[Ripper]

But he should have attacked more.

LOL

 

[Mayomaniac]

Imo the main people overrating Roglic are the ones saying he didn't attack enough. I don't think his fans ever acted like he could just fly away from everyone. Then he drops half a minute to Dumoulin, probably the main standard in MTTs like this, doesn't make him insanely overrated imo.

if Dumoulin changes the bike he's between 1min and 1min 20sec faster than Roglic in that TT.

 

[Red Rick]

if Dumoulin changes the bike he's between 1min and 1min 20sec faster than Roglic in that TT.

I think he made a mistake, but over a minute difference?

 

[Mayomaniac]

I think he made a mistake, but over a minute difference?

He lost 40 seconds (?) to Van Aert on the climb, an in shape Dumoulin wouldn't loose time to Wout on such a steep climb after actually increasing his advantage before the climb (the plan was probably to ride a negative split, just like Wout). That makes me believe that he'd have been between 1min and 1min 20 seconds faster than Roglic at the end of the stage instead of just 30 seconds.

 

[Red Rick]

He lost 40 seconds (?) to Van Aert on the climb, an in shape Dumoulin wouldn't loose time to Wout on such a steep climb after actually increasing his advantage before the climb (the plan was probably to ride a negative split, just like Wout). That makes me believe that he'd have been between 1min and 1min 20 seconds faster than Roglic at the end of the stage instead of just 30 seconds.

I think he would've gone 30s faster max. 1'20 would have Dumoulin put out a Pogacar level climbing performance after being dropped all Tour. Perhaps you expect Dumoulin to just plow through an effort like that much better because his brain decides it's an ITT and thus he can just go harder but I don't think he would challenge for the win.

He said he rode 2017 Bergen level powers and he got destroyed.

 

[SafeBet]

I think he would've gone 30s faster max. 1'20 would have Dumoulin put out a Pogacar level climbing performance after being dropped all Tour.

I don't really understand your timings.
If Dumoulin goes 30 seconds faster on the climb he's already more than a minute better than Roglic overall.

Pogacar was 1'20" faster than Dumoulin on the climb alone.

 

[bajbar]

Anyways, the Tour is over, it is what it is. I was asked by Armchair cyclist about the situation here in Slovenia, how do people see the things happening in the Tour and he encouraged me to share my little paragraph with everyone else as well. So here it is:

Well, the situation is pretty euphoric. Last week or so cycling is everything anyone has been talking about. First time since march the top news is not Covid. But the general consensus is that most of the people would prefer Roglič to win (myself included). Rogla is probably a more "typical" Slovenian, quiet, humble, hard working. And for the past three years he was everything everyone talked about. But especially since his TDF stage win in 2017. He was to be our TDF winner and no one had any doubt about it. The popularity rose even further with the Giro last year, the number of fans by the road was amazing and for the first time ever a lot of media houses got interested (before that it was only the national TV and mostly the Tour). And from last year onwards everyone was talking about Tour 2020. The Tour of Primož. Then of course there were the documentaries. The one made at Tour of Slovenia in 2018, the one Jumbo made about the Vuelta last year and then they made another one about his preparation for the Tour this year.

With La Vuelta win the hype got real last year. He got better of Dončić in the choice for Slovenian sportsman of the year, which says a lot. Pogačar on the other hand was always more in the shadow, that other guy who is also good. But with more people following a sport you always get those "instant" fans. That only follow the sport because "our guys" are doing well and don't have much idea about the sport itself. I admit, us "older" (though not by age haha) followers of cycling get slightly anoyed by them sometimes.

And about the Tour this year. Everyone was pretty sure Rogla was going to win. Especially since Ain and Dauphine. Though the crash was worrying to some of us a bit more informed (and I still think he lost some of that top level because of it even though he did really well to hide it). For Pogačar, people were hoping for him to fight for white or maybe the podium, no one ever thought that he was going to beat Primož. We basically took Jumbo Visma for our own, during the broadcast on our national TV more was said about Kuss and Wout then about Pogi. Whenever there was a crash it was always - Where is Primož, is he well positioned, how is the team doing etc. Some more enhusiastic fans believed that Tadej might challenge him in the mountains. But when Rogla dropped him on Loze, the race was pretty much over in the eyes of the fans and media here. Rogla has won the Tour. Some were worried if Pogi is even going to be able to keep second beacause he looked so tired. And then yesterday happened. And everyone was totally shocked. And it was really bitter sweet. Because if Primož won and Pogi was second - Slovenia would have two winners. But now we have one winner and one loser basically.

So yes, a lot of people are a bit (or very) dissapointed. Rogla has been a household name, the name everyone knew. Everyone's buddy. Everyone knew the team members. Sepp, Wout, Tony, George and Gesink are basically adopted Slovenians (Kuss actually has Slovenian roots). No one knows anything about UAE (except that Polanc is also there and that Hauptman is a DS haha), no one cares about UAE and Pogačar is just too new to get a lot of fans. And of course Primož's girlfriend also wrote that awesome book that let us even more into his life. We all hoped Primož would win to make the story complete and Tadej can have his Tour later. But he just came too quick.

So in the end, yes, very mixed feelings. Personally for me it is really hard since it is our biggest sporting succes ever (next to winning the Eurobasket in 2017) in my favourite sport that I have been following since 2007 (when for Slovenian even having someone in a breakaway was huge) but I am just not as happy as I should be because the plan failed. My mother isn't really a cycling expert but she said she doesn't like Pogačar. That he is sneaky and is just using Jumbo haha. And to be honest, after the performance yesterday there were a couple of eyebrows raised - preformance wise - about Pogi. The people would NEVER EVER doubt Rogla (about things we cannot discuss in here), no matter if he crushed everyone for 2 minutes yesterday.

 

[Mayomaniac]

I don't really understand your timings.
If Dumoulin goes 30 seconds faster on the climb he's already more than a minute better than Roglic overall.

Pogacar was 1'20" faster than Dumoulin on the climb alone.

Yes, that's what I was trying to say.

 

[Red Rick]

Oh my bad I thought he meant he'd have been 1'20 faster than himself.

 

[Volderke]

I thought this was fitting:

“At approximately 10km of the race, my Pioneer [power meter] flies from my handlebars and hits the ground,” Roglic added.
“I tried to show to my team car that I have lost something, but had no luck with that either. I was angry and felt good on the climb, and since I’ve lost the meter I had to go all in, full gas.”
So next time something goes wrong for you before a race or a time trial, remember that all is not lost and you can go on to win. It helps if you’re an elite athlete though…and have a really good time trial bike…"

Primoz Roglic, after winning the Chianti TT in the Giro, May 2016.

 

[Volderke]

A quick remark: I was watching on my telephone with bad internet, but I think I saw that Roglic's bike was being measured by the commissaires just before the start of the TT, and I remember they said something about the saddle being too close to the bottom bracket... So the team mechanic had to set back the saddle by some centimers?

Is this true? If so, I reckon this makes a BIG difference. Setback is the single most important parameter to get your legs going smoothly, especially in a TT. Too much setback than used to can easily result in building up much more lactic acid, less power and an overal uncomfortable feel on the TT bike.

I also see that Roglic was really on the tip of his (not looking very comfortable) saddle. Opinions appreciated (I can't find the little videoclip with his bike check, it was somewhere on twitter)!

 

[Escarabajo]

I think Roglic could have been better on the climb, if he had paced himself for the best time. But they gave him the time splits and by the start of the climb I think he knew he had to risk everything and then cracked a bit on the climb. He was almost blue during the final k.
Still, Porte's time was amazing by itself, saying "look, he did not even beat Porte" does not do justice to everyone's performance, I think. The absolute times tell us a bit about how we can rate these rides.

I heard somewhere some ex-riders that are now commentators that there are different school of coaches on how to deliver the news to riders. To the point that some of them don't deliver bad news because is going to make more harm than good. It would be interesting to know what they told him really.

 

[bob.a.feet]

A quick remark: I was watching on my telephone with bad internet, but I think I saw that Roglic's bike was being measured by the commissaires just before the start of the TT, and I remember they said something about the saddle being too close to the bottom bracket... So the team mechanic had to set back the saddle by some centimers?

Is this true? If so, I reckon this makes a BIG difference. Setback is the single most important parameter to get your legs going smoothly, especially in a TT. Too much setback than used to can easily result in building up much more lactic acid, less power and an overal uncomfortable feel on the TT bike.

I also see that Roglic was really on the tip of his (not looking very comfortable) saddle. Opinions appreciated (I can't find the little videoclip with his bike check, it was somewhere on twitter)!

Sometime ago I moved my saddle back about 2mm before an interval session and ended up tearing my hamstring. I feel like that was a pretty rare occurrence but if Roglic did have to move his saddle back it would definitely impact his race.

 

[DFA123]

A quick remark: I was watching on my telephone with bad internet, but I think I saw that Roglic's bike was being measured by the commissaires just before the start of the TT, and I remember they said something about the saddle being too close to the bottom bracket... So the team mechanic had to set back the saddle by some centimers?

Is this true? If so, I reckon this makes a BIG difference. Setback is the single most important parameter to get your legs going smoothly, especially in a TT. Too much setback than used to can easily result in building up much more lactic acid, less power and an overal uncomfortable feel on the TT bike.

I also see that Roglic was really on the tip of his (not looking very comfortable) saddle. Opinions appreciated (I can't find the little videoclip with his bike check, it was somewhere on twitter)!

Wow, if true, that sounds like another Rabofail to add to the list. Illegally setting up the bike in the most important TT of the team's history. Incredible.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Yes, by :9 in a non-target race. Surely that doesn’t indicate he will win the Tour TT by 1:21 over TT specialists?



OK I exaggerated, but I just spot checked TYs from 1999, 2003, and 2005. Lance lost several of them and his biggest win was by :56, which is, of course, less than 1:21.

Why only the 3 years? In 2001 was 1:24 ahead of second. Which was once that high but kept the average of the ones he won close to a minute over second.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Because I had other things to do than go deep on Lance Armstrong’s (tainted) ITT performances

 

[BlueRoads]

Anyways, the Tour is over, it is what it is. I was asked by Armchair cyclist about the situation here in Slovenia, how do people see the things happening in the Tour and he encouraged me to share my little paragraph with everyone else as well. So here it is:

Well, the situation is pretty euphoric. Last week or so cycling is everything anyone has been talking about. First time since march the top news is not Covid. But the general consensus is that most of the people would prefer Roglič to win (myself included). Rogla is probably a more "typical" Slovenian, quiet, humble, hard working. And for the past three years he was everything everyone talked about. But especially since his TDF stage win in 2017. He was to be our TDF winner and no one had any doubt about it. The popularity rose even further with the Giro last year, the number of fans by the road was amazing and for the first time ever a lot of media houses got interested (before that it was only the national TV and mostly the Tour). And from last year onwards everyone was talking about Tour 2020. The Tour of Primož. Then of course there were the documentaries. The one made at Tour of Slovenia in 2018, the one Jumbo made about the Vuelta last year and then they made another one about his preparation for the Tour this year.

With La Vuelta win the hype got real last year. He got better of Dončić in the choice for Slovenian sportsman of the year, which says a lot. Pogačar on the other hand was always more in the shadow, that other guy who is also good. But with more people following a sport you always get those "instant" fans. That only follow the sport because "our guys" are doing well and don't have much idea about the sport itself. I admit, us "older" (though not by age haha) followers of cycling get slightly anoyed by them sometimes.

And about the Tour this year. Everyone was pretty sure Rogla was going to win. Especially since Ain and Dauphine. Though the crash was worrying to some of us a bit more informed (and I still think he lost some of that top level because of it even though he did really well to hide it). For Pogačar, people were hoping for him to fight for white or maybe the podium, no one ever thought that he was going to beat Primož. We basically took Jumbo Visma for our own, during the broadcast on our national TV more was said about Kuss and Wout then about Pogi. Whenever there was a crash it was always - Where is Primož, is he well positioned, how is the team doing etc. Some more enhusiastic fans believed that Tadej might challenge him in the mountains. But when Rogla dropped him on Loze, the race was pretty much over in the eyes of the fans and media here. Rogla has won the Tour. Some were worried if Pogi is even going to be able to keep second beacause he looked so tired. And then yesterday happened. And everyone was totally shocked. And it was really bitter sweet. Because if Primož won and Pogi was second - Slovenia would have two winners. But now we have one winner and one loser basically.

So yes, a lot of people are a bit (or very) dissapointed. Rogla has been a household name, the name everyone knew. Everyone's buddy. Everyone knew the team members. Sepp, Wout, Tony, George and Gesink are basically adopted Slovenians (Kuss actually has Slovenian roots). No one knows anything about UAE (except that Polanc is also there and that Hauptman is a DS haha), no one cares about UAE and Pogačar is just too new to get a lot of fans. And of course Primož's girlfriend also wrote that awesome book that let us even more into his life. We all hoped Primož would win to make the story complete and Tadej can have his Tour later. But he just came too quick.

So in the end, yes, very mixed feelings. Personally for me it is really hard since it is our biggest sporting succes ever (next to winning the Eurobasket in 2017) in my favourite sport that I have been following since 2007 (when for Slovenian even having someone in a breakaway was huge) but I am just not as happy as I should be because the plan failed. My mother isn't really a cycling expert but she said she doesn't like Pogačar. That he is sneaky and is just using Jumbo haha. And to be honest, after the performance yesterday there were a couple of eyebrows raised - preformance wise - about Pogi. The people would NEVER EVER doubt Rogla (about things we cannot discuss in here), no matter if he crushed everyone for 2 minutes yesterday.

This actually sounds like a textbook about how to build a narrative around a person. For this much pressure Primoz takes it very, very well.