Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

[CyclistAbi]

It's not great, losing around 40s, but what can one do, from Rogla perspective he stayed healthy and the fight for GC continues. As for this dual objective teams, having sprinters and GC, both SOQ and RBH, it was demonstrated today, on why GC orientated AAA teams don't do that. And Lipo having some troubles, in the end better to acknowledge Rogla is mostly on his own in terms of GC ambitions at this race.

P.S. Maybe Rogla and Remco can delegate their sprinters in a separate team and to join forces with their GC support, that might look like a decent Tour team. Joking aside lets at least see if a team of sprinters can lead-out Rogla properly tomorow on stage 2.

 

[Peyroteo94]

I still think it's better for him to ride at the back of the peloton than risk a crash. I just want him to arrive healthy to Hautacam.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@Peyroteo94

Nah, they need to push more now, lets see on how positioning and leading out of their second sprinter will go.

 

[cen]

 

[Unterlenkerfahrend]

There's no way the nonchalant statements have played a reason here, he has always been like that and in no scenario ever would he just gift away significant time in GC because he couldn't be arsed.

I actually almost agree with Aldags statement regarding preference of staying safe instead of risking it all especially as it seemed at first that Echelons won't happen. With Roglics history of crashes thats a reasonable gamble to take. However what doesn't excuse anything whatsoever is refusing to use your guys to close the gap once the groups were split. At that point there's no bigger danger and what do you gain for playing it safe? Saving your guys for the laughable chance of a Meeus victory?
Pretty pathetic from Bora to bring a bunch of rouleurs with the aim of taking Roglic and Lipowitz without losses to Hautacam and then get destroyed like that on literally the first stage.

 

[Filippo_3467]

Well if that's the case we have a massive form crisis and racing the Tour was a bigger waste of time than my 3rd reread of all the ASOIAF books.

I would guess that's the case. Roglic seems to me straight up depressed in his interviews and not his normal self where he just gives nonsenese answers and seems bored. Also why should he be in abetter form then in the Giro where he was already bad before his problems started?

Maybe he comes good in the third week but he could be already minutes behind by then.

 

[Carols]

I would guess that's the case. Roglic seems to me straight up depressed in his interviews and not his normal self where he just gives nonsenese answers and seems bored. Also why should he be in abetter form then in the Giro where he was already bad before his problems started?

Maybe he comes good in the third week but he could be already minutes behind by then.

Actually it was Denk who instructed them to come in safely and not worry about time lost.

 

[hfer07]

You know what? If Roglic survives this week and finishes in the top 5 with a stage win, I'd consider his performance as a big accomplishment, given his TDF record...... of not being able to finish it in the last 4 editions...

 

[veganrob]

I think complete loser mentality from Roglic, RBH, and his fans. Did he really come into this tour with the intention of riding for third place against Remco so it's ok? Or hoping something happens to top two? Vingo and Pogi rode like winners .

 

[CyclistAbi]

I mean Rogla, blaming. It was a sprint stage and they brought a sprinter, what should he do? Pull back the gap? Safety? I don't feel safety had much to do with it.

Both SOQ and RBH where thinking about what is best for their sprinters on this stage and ultimately paid for it on where it comes to GC. Rogla was a non factor, unfortunately. Hopefully today to go better, on where team secondary sprinter will be at play.

 

[SHAD0W93]

I still think it's better for him to ride at the back of the peloton than risk a crash. I just want him to arrive healthy to Hautacam.

Same, and four was with the group I think he’d have been in the O’Connor crash. Didn’t lose any time to third place threats besides Mas but he should be able to overcome that in great shape. Just has to keep out of trouble.

 

[Rackham]

There's no way the nonchalant statements have played a reason here, he has always been like that and in no scenario ever would he just gift away significant time in GC because he couldn't be arsed.

I actually almost agree with Aldags statement regarding preference of staying safe instead of risking it all especially as it seemed at first that Echelons won't happen. With Roglics history of crashes thats a reasonable gamble to take. However what doesn't excuse anything whatsoever is refusing to use your guys to close the gap once the groups were split. At that point there's no bigger danger and what do you gain for playing it safe? Saving your guys for the laughable chance of a Meeus victory?
Pretty pathetic from Bora to bring a bunch of rouleurs with the aim of taking Roglic and Lipowitz without losses to Hautacam and then get destroyed like that on literally the first stage.

Yes. Avoiding crashes and losing time was always an acceptable proposition for Rog in the first week of this Tour. It might even grant a little leeway later - or maybe not - but the material point is UAE and Visma are going to drill it so hard in the mountains anyway that whoever holds on for longest will gain time relative the rest. So the podium is totally doable.

But mother of god seeing sprinters race with a sub Teletubby IQ (& the ds's) will never not be one of the most egregious things when sitting on the couch watching a bike race. I'm not even sure Van Poppel was even riding for Meeus tbh. He made some pretty ambiguous comments after winning the Dutch nationals last weekend so from my point of view he raced like someone with an idea at the back of his mind to go for glory himself.

But this is the Tour de France. Watching those two guys ride for glory for 39th (!!!) yesterday was like seeing some guys unironically sprint from the gruppetto at the top of a col. Worse though because their actual GC leaders were sitting with them and could have benefitted from a pull or two.

 

[Rackham]

The TdF always finds new ways to annoy me. Yesterday was a different flavor of annoyance compared to the usual dish we're served but annoying nonetheless.

Fair warning: it could get worse today as well. If Red Bull have neither the team ethos to stick together and work together in difficult times (or the strategic imperative because there's split objectives) nor the actual power in the legs to make anything happen anyway (and this is where Red Bull's horrible classics campaign becomes an issue because these riders have been pretty bad all year save for intermittent purple patches), then they'll get absolutely obliterated throughout this punchy first week in which positioning is super important.

 

[Filippo_3467]

I mean Rogla, blaming. It was a sprint stage and they brought a sprinter, what should he do? Pull back the gap? Safety? I don't feel safety had much to do with it.

Both SOQ and RBH where thinking about what is best for their sprinters on this stage and ultimately paid for it on where it comes to GC. Rogla was a non factor, unfortunately. Hopefully today to go better, on where team secondary sprinter will be at play.

Yeah he was a total nonfactor because he was completely asleep as his own DS said. That was not a surprising split. Even the commentators at Eurosport said it and they are normally completely useless when it comes to actual race commentary.

All this talk about safety is of course total BS. The team is just bad, Roglic is bad, the DS seem to have no control over their riders (see Lipowitz fighting alone for a long time, van Poppel leading out Meeus for 38th). That race is over for Red Bull before it really started. But they are really good at finding excuses. They will find ways to tell you why a eigth place from Lipo and a 3rd Place on Stage XYZ from Roglic means this Tour was a big success,

 

[QueenStagiaire]

All this talk about safety is BS. They‘re in the middle of the pack, you know, where all the crashes happen. This basically only worked because Soudal-Quickstep and Ineos were also doing the same sleeping thing. I don‘t think hoping that all your opponents also don‘t care and stay out of the fight for position is a sustainable strategy.

 

[Links2003]

Actually it was Denk who instructed them to come in safely and not worry about time lost.

Denk makes it clear in interviews and in his podcast that he is not happy about what has happened. And that they probably misjudged it because they thought the gap would close again as Merlier, Evenepoel, Milan etc were also there. But there was probably no good cooperation.

And otherwise if they want to protect Roglic like that: they wanted to ride for victory with Meeus. Then you at least have to position him somewhere else.

For Roglic, it's not too bad if you think it's about 3rd place, but since the team has just built for these stages, it's a damper on morale on day 1.

 

[Rackham]

The good thing about the Tour de France is today is another day, so whatever happens today will cancel out yesterday's events and conversations. For better or for worse.

 

[Rackham]

Survival mode today and good team effort tbh. Much better than yesterday.

 

[Red Rick]

Clearly not a single fast twitch fiber left.

Roglobasso will hit unexpected. Roglobasso will hit true.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

Roglič looked on par with Buchmann in the hills today, his fast-twitch fibres must have been destroyed completely or something.

 

[Rackham]

Roglič looked on par with Buchmann in the hills today, his fast-twitch fibres must have been destroyed completely or something.

Those aren't hills, they're 'bad position' killers. It's why Rog doesn't win the worlds. That and the distance of course.

He could still sprint in Catalunya though for what it's worth.

 

[Links2003]

Survival mode today and good team effort tbh. Much better than yesterday.

Better. Yes. But in the end only Lipo there. He must close the gap. Then he attacked. Roglic only at the end at the group. At a finish which normaly is good for him. Like at the Giro from day 1.

 

[Red Rick]

Those aren't hills, they're 'bad position' killers. It's why Rog doesn't win the worlds. That and the distance of course.

He could still sprint in Catalunya though for what it's worth.

Roglic just isn't quite ready yet. That's why he was training eating the extra wind at 12km to go.

Just get to the TT unscathed, see what happens there, and go from there.

 

[Rackham]

Better. Yes. But in the end only Lipo there. He must close the gap. Then he attacked. Roglic only at the end at the group. At a finish which normaly is good for him. Like at the Giro from day 1.

We pick and choose our meltdowns wisely here.

Yesterday featured #teamchaos and was thus worthy of a meltdown, but Rog getting caught in a split on a 1k 9% climb in a classics type finale? Or not sprinting at the end versus Pog and Van der Poel on that type of finish with a large bunch? Nah. I'd consider this stage a good day at the office tbh.

Let's get to that ITT on Wednesday and then we can see what he's got in those legs.

 

[Red Rick]

We pick and choose our meltdowns wisely here.

Yesterday featured #teamchaos and was thus worthy of a meltdown, but Rog getting caught in a split on a 1k 9% climb in a classics type finale? Or not sprinting at the end versus Pog and Van der Poel on that type of finish with a large bunch? Nah. I'd consider this stage a good day at the office tbh.

Let's get to that ITT on Wednesday and then we can see what he's got in those legs.

He looked fine to me on the penultimate hill and I think he just decided very early on he wasn't gonna take any bonus seconds on the line and in that case he usually finishes near the back of the group.