Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

[CyclistAbi]

@ftm

Stomp will return if the team will decide to support it, othervise we will manage just fine too. There are other tools in the toolbox.

Note that there is ultimately nothing wrong with you per se, just a normal Rogla fan wall of text that i see here. Being a Rogla fan you are encouraged to explore the full range of emotions.

See you at Itzulia.

 

[ftm]

@ftm

Stomp will return if the team will decide to support it, othervise we will manage just fine too. There are other tools in the toolbox.

Note that there is ultimately nothing wrong with you per se, just a normal Rogla fan wall of text that i see here. Being a Rogla fan you are encouraged to explore the full range of emotions.

See you at Itzulia.

I admire your optimism but I disagree. He doesn't have any extra tools compared to the other GC riders in the team and the current rivals.

-Without his stomp he won't find it easy to win, look at Lipo and similar riders, they are consistently good at high placements but struggle to get separation.
-He doesn't have the best hilly TT anymore, he's been surpassed by quite a few riders.
-He doesn't have the best endurance so LBL/Lombardia are out of the question, besides they already have Remco for those, he's the big favorite if Pogacar doesn't ride them.
-He is a top 5 climber at best judging by what we saw last year and all the rivals he will face have outclimbed him in recent races

He is undoubtedly a top rider and can podium under the right circumstances, but it's clear that the team have done everything they could to try to get him to the level required to be competitive against the youngsters and it hasn't worked. Don't forget that their head of performance also works with endurance athletes in their late 30s and early 40s so he is the ideal person to help Roglic and they clearly thought that the training done was enough to win Tirreno and Milano-Torino, but it wasn't. I don't think there is anything else to be done

We need to accept that age is something not even the greatest can overcome and enjoy his last season, hopefully full of good moments even if not as great as we were used to

 

[acm]

-He doesn't have the best hilly TT anymore, he's been surpassed by quite a few riders.

I don't agree with the rest you wrote, but whatever, you can have your opinion. I just don't get this. What do you mean by hilly TT? First TT at Giro last year, when he was less than a second behind the winner? Or second TT at TdF, when he was third, only behind two aliens? Or maybe Itzulia 2024, when he won? And who exactly are those "quite a few riders" who surpassed him?

 

[CyclistAbi]

He doesn't have any extra tools compared to the other GC riders in the team and the current rivals.

Now that is a rather long list of things Rogla supposedly doesn't have any more.

And who exactly are those "quite a few riders" who surpassed him?

Maybe Omi & Opi?

 

[ftm]

I don't agree with the rest you wrote, but whatever, you can have your opinion. I just don't get this. What do you mean by hilly TT? First TT at Giro last year, when he was less than a second behind the winner? Or second TT at TdF, when he was third, only behind two aliens? Or maybe Itzulia 2024, when he won? And who exactly are those "quite a few riders" who surpassed him?

I'll throw the questions back at you to hear your explanations and reasoning. Believe me, I wish I had your optimism and I didn't feel like he's already started to decline in a way that is not sustainable in today's fast-paced peloton, but I think that's what's happened:

1. Do you really think his TT has improved at RedBull? I think he has regressed, he used to be slightly better than Remco in hilly ITTs, now that gap has disappeared and others have also got close to him: Ayuso, Del Toro, even his teammates Lipo & Pellizzari. Don't forget that Seixas is also an excellent TTer so Roglic has lost his edge and an important advantage, they are all now equally matched. The second Tour TT you mention I think proves my point, he used to be much closer to the aliens but last year he lost more than 1min with Jonas and almost 2 min with Pogacar and I think that Lipo will be even closer this year since he's steadily improving
2. How do you explain his inability to perform after altitude like he used to? Paris-Nice 2024 we discussed the reasons and I accept that it was a one-off situation adapting to the new team after so many years in a better one. Last year he did perform in Catalunya coming from altitude, but he was racing Ayuso who was at the tail-end of his early season peak (the guy had been on fire at the start of the season, he was obviously tired), the rest were not aliens or youngsters that could've taken a step up. I think his win, despite being impressive, was not a reflection of his level compared to the rest of his strong rivals.
3. How do you explain the strange dip in performance after last year's Giro when the team has never mentioned anything being wrong? I know he said something about taking antibiotics after the Giro, but how does that explain the rest of the season? I can believe that the Tour was a hard one and he would need the perfect preparation for it, but he had plenty of time since he left the Giro a week earlier than originally planned to recover from the crashes and do the usual altitude camp before the Tour without any further complications or at least nothing was mentioned. And once the Tour was over he had again plenty of time to rest, but we know what happened afterwards: he went to altitude for the autumn races and was very subpar, he has started this season really slowly for the first time ever and is unable to win against a good number of riders
4. How do you explain that the team was expecting him to win and/or perform at the top level after altitude but they haven't said anything when he didn't, which leads me to be believe that they don't know what is wrong or that they have done everything to prepare him and it's not enough. He still has his coach, as far as I know, so they know how to get the most out of him and it hasn't worked for the first time.
5. How do you explain that he didn't try to test his limits and see whether he could get closer to his rivals in the three races he has done? Maybe Tirreno is a bad example since they were racing for Pellizzari and the team tactics to have them both in the podium didn't work so they were not going to risk the Italian's podium place, but what about Milano-Torino where he almost finished next to notoriously bad uphill sprinter blobloblo? Or MSR where he didn't even try to follow despite being in a perfect position and having nothing to lose?

I've been racking my brains for an explanation that makes sense but there isn't. We've seen this over and over again, a top level cyclist that improves season after season will suddenly lose his weapons in a short period of time once they hit their mid 30s. I hoped that Roglic would be the exception to the rule since he started his career so late, but it's now clear that he can't defeat age, no matter how badly we wish he did

 

[SHAD0W93]

When it’s a fresh effort Rogic is still one of the best in the business, like Contador when he got older.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@ftm

It's rather straightforward to answer all those questions. There where a lot of crashes at Giro 2025 and that first of all prevented a great GC result and for sure it had consequences for remainder of the season. As for races on where Rogla races with young stars, such as Giulio and Lipo. Here and at least for now the team doesn't sacrifice this young riders for Rogla to take the win. On top of that i sincerely doubt that Rogla has any interest at all in beating them for podium positions. Beyond that the team doesn't have any rider capable of being on duty for Rogla on the ultimate climb. So here we are ATM. As for Rogličes TT, it's still good. For sure more than good enough to win stage races. It's not in TT on where this team is currently lacking in terms of stage racing.

 

[ftm]

When it’s a fresh effort Rogic is still one of the best in the business, like Contador when he got older.

I don't think it's the case anymore, the only recent time we saw him do a fresh effort was last Tour's Ventoux stage and he was at a very similar level as Lipo and Onley, in fact Onley was distanced because both teammates 1-2'd him, if they all rode for different teams they've probably crossed the finish line together.

I'd also consider this past MSR as a sort of unipuerto stage, we know that Roglic struggles with long races but this one is notoriously easy until the final 20-25kms and he didn't do anything when he had nothing to lose. That's not normal for him

Besides this year's Vuelta has a very hard route and barely any unipuerto stages so it's unlikely that we will see him perform well this year since he isn't riding anything that would suit his current abilities

 

[CyclistAbi]

@ftm

FYI Rogla actually did great at MT and MS. Especially considering his best teammate was never sacrificed for his own result and could race for the result too. Actually both ending up with some good results.

 

[CyclistAbi]

All in all we can say Rogla has another tool in his toolbox. Confidence. Other, younger leaders, they would never make sure their teammate finish near or maybe even in front of them and being OK with that, knowing overall was out of reach anyway.

That is on why Rogla is a good ambassador for the BOSS brand, it takes a confident man to wear it right.

 

[Red Rick]

He did exactly what was expected in Sanremo, and I think all Sanremo did was him getting dropped by Pidcock into perspective.

 

[acm]

I'll throw the questions back at you to hear your explanations and reasoning. Believe me, I wish I had your optimism and I didn't feel like he's already started to decline in a way that is not sustainable in today's fast-paced peloton, but I think that's what's happened:

1. Do you really think his TT has improved at RedBull? I think he has regressed, he used to be slightly better than Remco in hilly ITTs, now that gap has disappeared and others have also got close to him: Ayuso, Del Toro, even his teammates Lipo & Pellizzari. Don't forget that Seixas is also an excellent TTer so Roglic has lost his edge and an important advantage, they are all now equally matched. The second Tour TT you mention I think proves my point, he used to be much closer to the aliens but last year he lost more than 1min with Jonas and almost 2 min with Pogacar and I think that Lipo will be even closer this year since he's steadily improving
2. How do you explain his inability to perform after altitude like he used to? Paris-Nice 2024 we discussed the reasons and I accept that it was a one-off situation adapting to the new team after so many years in a better one. Last year he did perform in Catalunya coming from altitude, but he was racing Ayuso who was at the tail-end of his early season peak (the guy had been on fire at the start of the season, he was obviously tired), the rest were not aliens or youngsters that could've taken a step up. I think his win, despite being impressive, was not a reflection of his level compared to the rest of his strong rivals.
3. How do you explain the strange dip in performance after last year's Giro when the team has never mentioned anything being wrong? I know he said something about taking antibiotics after the Giro, but how does that explain the rest of the season? I can believe that the Tour was a hard one and he would need the perfect preparation for it, but he had plenty of time since he left the Giro a week earlier than originally planned to recover from the crashes and do the usual altitude camp before the Tour without any further complications or at least nothing was mentioned. And once the Tour was over he had again plenty of time to rest, but we know what happened afterwards: he went to altitude for the autumn races and was very subpar, he has started this season really slowly for the first time ever and is unable to win against a good number of riders
4. How do you explain that the team was expecting him to win and/or perform at the top level after altitude but they haven't said anything when he didn't, which leads me to be believe that they don't know what is wrong or that they have done everything to prepare him and it's not enough. He still has his coach, as far as I know, so they know how to get the most out of him and it hasn't worked for the first time.
5. How do you explain that he didn't try to test his limits and see whether he could get closer to his rivals in the three races he has done? Maybe Tirreno is a bad example since they were racing for Pellizzari and the team tactics to have them both in the podium didn't work so they were not going to risk the Italian's podium place, but what about Milano-Torino where he almost finished next to notoriously bad uphill sprinter blobloblo? Or MSR where he didn't even try to follow despite being in a perfect position and having nothing to lose?

I've been racking my brains for an explanation that makes sense but there isn't. We've seen this over and over again, a top level cyclist that improves season after season will suddenly lose his weapons in a short period of time once they hit their mid 30s. I hoped that Roglic would be the exception to the rule since he started his career so late, but it's now clear that he can't defeat age, no matter how badly we wish he did

Optimism? Oh, I wish. Maybe I'm just resigned to the fact that this is no longer Rogla of a few years ago. But he's still one of the best time trialists. All those youngsters that you mentioned, are great TTers. And probably they'll get better and better each year. But still I can't say that they surpassed Roglič. Remco is just in a league of his own at TT and Pogi and Jonas are the best climbers, so being third in MTT at TdF last year, was a great result for Roglič. Maybe you expect too much from him. Fact is that everyone else is so much better than few years ago, they are racing full gas from km 0, and we know that's not perfect for Primož. It never was.
In my opinion his numbers are still improving, but it's just not enough for today's way of racing.

About Giro last year, that's true, he was on antibiotics after. Maybe it would be better if he didn't go to TdF. Preparations were far from perfect and I also know a reason why he wasn't mentally 100% there. But that's not on me to tell everyone.
His coach said last year that they changed training, they work on endurance and as a result, he is less explosive imo.
Marc Lamberts: “Over the years we have worked hard together to build that [aerobic power] up bit by bit through endurance training. Year after year we kept an eye on that, and it kept increasing. His pace that he can maintain for half an hour and longer, had to be better. That worked out. What he used to do was follow, follow, follow. And if he was still there in the last five hundred meters, he would win. But racing is different. With the same profile as five years ago, he would no longer be riding in the top 5 in a Grand Tour." Lamberts assures however, being clear that constant evolution is necessary, specially at an age where the top riders in the sport continue to put on stronger and stronger performances.
https://cyclinguptodate.com/cycling...m-a-puncheur-to-a-five-time-grand-tour-winner

About Milano-Torino, I think that with better team support and not attacking the first time on Superga, he would be better. MSR was never his race, it's just too long and even in his prime he wasn't good there. I was actually positively surprised by how he raced this year.
And let's not forget, his biggest goal is in August. Still a plenty of time to prepare and maybe Rog and his coach are planning to reach one super peak only then.

 

[AmRacer]

Optimism? Oh, I wish. Maybe I'm just resigned to the fact that this is no longer Rogla of a few years ago. But he's still one of the best time trialists. All those youngsters that you mentioned, are great TTers. And probably they'll get better and better each year. But still I can't say that they surpassed Roglič. Remco is just in a league of his own at TT and Pogi and Jonas are the best climbers, so being third in MTT at TdF last year, was a great result for Roglič. Maybe you expect too much from him. Fact is that everyone else is so much better than few years ago, they are racing full gas from km 0, and we know that's not perfect for Primož. It never was.
In my opinion his numbers are still improving, but it's just not enough for today's way of racing.

About Giro last year, that's true, he was on antibiotics after. Maybe it would be better if he didn't go to TdF. Preparations were far from perfect and I also know a reason why he wasn't mentally 100% there. But that's not on me to tell everyone.
His coach said last year that they changed training, they work on endurance and as a result, he is less explosive imo.
Marc Lamberts: “Over the years we have worked hard together to build that [aerobic power] up bit by bit through endurance training. Year after year we kept an eye on that, and it kept increasing. His pace that he can maintain for half an hour and longer, had to be better. That worked out. What he used to do was follow, follow, follow. And if he was still there in the last five hundred meters, he would win. But racing is different. With the same profile as five years ago, he would no longer be riding in the top 5 in a Grand Tour." Lamberts assures however, being clear that constant evolution is necessary, specially at an age where the top riders in the sport continue to put on stronger and stronger performances.
https://cyclinguptodate.com/cycling...m-a-puncheur-to-a-five-time-grand-tour-winner

About Milano-Torino, I think that with better team support and not attacking the first time on Superga, he would be better. MSR was never his race, it's just too long and even in his prime he wasn't good there. I was actually positively surprised by how he raced this year.
And let's not forget, his biggest goal is in August. Still a plenty of time to prepare and maybe Rog and his coach are planning to reach one super peak only then.

Re: The Tour, Rogla was very happy seeing in Paris.

 

[CyclistAbi]

I am optimistic that Rogla still has it and has a few more good years in cycling. Hopefully first win of the season at Itzulia already.

 

[Red Rick]

Optimism? Oh, I wish. Maybe I'm just resigned to the fact that this is no longer Rogla of a few years ago. But he's still one of the best time trialists. All those youngsters that you mentioned, are great TTers. And probably they'll get better and better each year. But still I can't say that they surpassed Roglič. Remco is just in a league of his own at TT and Pogi and Jonas are the best climbers, so being third in MTT at TdF last year, was a great result for Roglič. Maybe you expect too much from him. Fact is that everyone else is so much better than few years ago, they are racing full gas from km 0, and we know that's not perfect for Primož. It never was.
In my opinion his numbers are still improving, but it's just not enough for today's way of racing.

About Giro last year, that's true, he was on antibiotics after. Maybe it would be better if he didn't go to TdF. Preparations were far from perfect and I also know a reason why he wasn't mentally 100% there. But that's not on me to tell everyone.
His coach said last year that they changed training, they work on endurance and as a result, he is less explosive imo.
Marc Lamberts: “Over the years we have worked hard together to build that [aerobic power] up bit by bit through endurance training. Year after year we kept an eye on that, and it kept increasing. His pace that he can maintain for half an hour and longer, had to be better. That worked out. What he used to do was follow, follow, follow. And if he was still there in the last five hundred meters, he would win. But racing is different. With the same profile as five years ago, he would no longer be riding in the top 5 in a Grand Tour." Lamberts assures however, being clear that constant evolution is necessary, specially at an age where the top riders in the sport continue to put on stronger and stronger performances.
https://cyclinguptodate.com/cycling...m-a-puncheur-to-a-five-time-grand-tour-winner

About Milano-Torino, I think that with better team support and not attacking the first time on Superga, he would be better. MSR was never his race, it's just too long and even in his prime he wasn't good there. I was actually positively surprised by how he raced this year.
And let's not forget, his biggest goal is in August. Still a plenty of time to prepare and maybe Rog and his coach are planning to reach one super peak only then.

In Tirreno he was also helping Pellizzari, which probably made him look slightly worse than he actually was. It seems mostly that he's lacking that super high end power.

 

[acm]

In Tirreno he was also helping Pellizzari, which probably made him look slightly worse than he actually was. It seems mostly that he's lacking that super high end power.

Exactly. I just hope he and the team know the reason for this and how to improve it.

 

[CyclistAbi]

If we are talking about the stomp then the solution is not that hard to imagine. One example. The team to deploy Rogla when climbing Superga for the second time.

 

[ice&fire]

Exactly. I just hope he and the team know the reason for this and how to improve it.

They need a flux condenser

 

[Oldman]

Roglic is the best RBH TT rider that is the least likely to ride into a pothole on a pristine paved finish.

 

[ftm]

@ftm

As for races on where Rogla races with young stars, such as Giulio and Lipo. Here and at least for now the team doesn't sacrifice this young riders for Rogla to take the win. On top of that i sincerely doubt that Rogla has any interest at all in beating them for podium positions. Beyond that the team doesn't have any rider capable of being on duty for Rogla on the ultimate climb

And that's how it works in such a team. They all need to assert their alpha maleness so it's a problem with an easy solution, you either have the legs and become the leader or you don't and have to either domestique or wait for team tactics

Maybe you expect too much from him. Fact is that everyone else is so much better than few years ago, they are racing full gas from km 0, and we know that's not perfect for Primož. It never was.
In my opinion his numbers are still improving, but it's just not enough for today's way of racing.
[...]
His coach said last year that they changed training, they work on endurance and as a result, he is less explosive imo.
https://cyclinguptodate.com/cycling...m-a-puncheur-to-a-five-time-grand-tour-winner

I am honestly not expecting anything from Roglic. He's had an illustrious career and doesn't have anything else to prove. I'm good with him just racing until he decides to retire, however both he and the team have hinted that he was good enough to win the races he targeted last half of '25 (Emilia) and so far this year (Tirreno and Milano-Torino) and that's why I'm trying to understand whether there is something wrong in their approach or it's out of their control, which might be the case.

Thanks for that interview, I think it confirms what I suspected, he's maxed out and everybody else just took too many steps forward and it's impossible to keep up when he's a good 10-15 years older than them kids

In Tirreno he was also helping Pellizzari, which probably made him look slightly worse than he actually was. It seems mostly that he's lacking that super high end power.

I think the team would trade a Pellizzari podium for a Roglic win if he had the legs. I think both did best they could

Exactly. I just hope he and the team know the reason for this and how to improve it.

Unless Remco and Lipo climbing is again very sus in Catalunya, I doubt Red Bull are incredibly worried about an ageing asset that will probably either retire or leave the team. But I hope I'm wrong!

 

[CyclistAbi]

And that's how it works in such a team. They all need to assert their alpha maleness so it's a problem with an easy solution, you either have the legs and become the leader or you don't and have to either domestique or wait for team tactics

Currently no, that is currently RBH doesn't support that and one can still pursue individual goals. Lets say if you are in top 5 climbers section you still get to pursue your own results. At UAE and Visma forget that.

I am honestly not expecting anything from Roglic. He's had an illustrious career and doesn't have anything else to prove.

True but why not, he can for example still prove you wrong, hopefully at Itzulia already. Another important thing to prove for example is there is still life after 30s in pro road peloton. No other rider you mentioned in this discussion likely won't have that privilege. And considering 40s are the new 30s ... We'll see.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Currently no, that is currently RBH doesn't support that and one can still pursue individual goals. Lets say if you are in top 5 climbers section you still get to pursue your own results. At UAE and Visma forget that.

That’s literally not true. UAE and Visma let their riders have sole or shared leadership in multiple races. Even Grand Tours or monuments. The only caveat is when Pogacar or Vingegaard are present.

 

[YavorD]

That’s literally not true. UAE and Visma let their riders have sole or shared leadership in multiple races. Even Grand Tours or monuments. The only caveat is when Pogacar or Vingegaard are present.

And even with Vingegaard in, they literally gifted a whole GT.

 

[CyclistAbi]

That’s literally not true. UAE and Visma let their riders have sole or shared leadership in multiple races. Even Grand Tours or monuments. The only caveat is when Pogacar or Vingegaard are present.

Of course i was speaking of the most prestigious stage races in the season, targeted by team leaders.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Plus who exactly at RBH is riding for Rogla on the ultimate climbs? Compared to UAE and Visma this is different universe.