Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

[entre nous]

It was in the national press, if I remember well by Čerin (his confidant)

 

[entre nous]

Some - also here - do not like his media appearances because of 'lack of panache'. He's not in the sport to entertain with words, 'for sure'. In this mediatised world this - and having a wrong passport - will cost him financially (and perhaps even a Velo d'Or or two).
But but - there's more subtlety in his words that is easy to miss. When he said that he was racing the Vuelta and as if is was a set of one-day races, this surely explains his 'punching approach' (his strength THIS TIME) but also that he was not sure about his legs to last another day. He got both, the roja and many (4) stages, at the end. La roja looks like a pure bonus. He was - unlike le Tour - very relaxed with much less pressure from the management which is over the moon with the result, if you read Dutch press today

 

[Gargamel35]

Tell

Some - also here - do not like his media appearances because of 'lack of panache'. He's not in the sport to entertain with words, 'for sure'. In this mediatised world this - and having a wrong passport - will cost him financially (and perhaps even a Velo d'Or or two).
But but - there's more subtlety in his words that is easy to miss. When he said that he was racing the Vuelta and as if is was a set of one-day races, this surely explains his 'punching approach' (his strength THIS TIME) but also that he was not sure about his legs to last another day. He got both, the roja and many (4) stages, at the end. La roja looks like a pure bonus. He was - unlike le Tour - very relaxed with much less pressure from the management which is over the moon with the result, if you read Dutch press today

Tell me more about the Dutch press! I always wondered how to they look at Roglič. A "noname" that became nr. 1 in a Dutch team with many great Dutch riders. I thought it's game over for Roglič when JV signed big Tom, but looks like he's just too good.

 

[Red Rick]

Tell

Tell me more about the Dutch press! I always wondered how to they look at Roglič. A "noname" that became nr. 1 in a Dutch team with many great Dutch riders. I thought it's game over for Roglič when JV signed big Tom, but looks like he's just too good.

Lot of respect for Roglic imho, even though there's always gonna be a few to be disappointed with the Dutch riders underperforming. It does help that it's not like Dumoulin/Kruijswijk had to sacrifice chances to win.

 

[entre nous]

Well, the TJV's main reason to be is to bring the yellow jersey to the NL after 40+ years. This is its emotional DNA with mostly Dutch sponsors behind the team. The management is not stupid and Primoz is the rational element in the story because he is simply a tier above the other two GC riders and does the job needed for the machine to remain oiled. But make no mistake: his GT chances are always contingent upon being better than Dumo and Krudo first (have you seen them congratulating him??) and only then he will get the support to go against Pog, Car etc.
The Dutch (and the Flemish even more) are a very nationalistic cycling nation.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I don't see Roglic as having a climbing potential of peak Froome/Contador/Nibali. I think him doing slightly worse in ITTs this year because he worked on his climbing might indicate he's near his peak?

I know van Aert barely touched his ITT bike this year, maybe Roglic or the team itself didn't think it was that important with only one ITT in the Tour? You might be right that he lost a tiny edge in ITT's but i'm not seeing a real dip compared to last year. Last year he won some shorter ITT's early in the season, by a few seconds. In the Giro he was only best in the climbing prologue and in the Vuelta he beat Bevin and Cavagna with less than half a minute over nearly 40k.

You can check out the time differences of his wins: https://www.procyclingstats.com/rid...ins=1&type=itt&year=&stripped=0&filter=Filter
This is why i already mentioned it in the stage topic, that people have a skewed view of Roglic as a dominant ITT'er. So again here, if you have only a small buffer on guys like Campenaerts or Bevin, it's not surprising that when new kids emerge, you get overtaken before you know it, even when maintaining the same level. Even in the TDF, i don't see any evidence of him performing worse, really. I think van Aert, Dumoulin are better ITT'ers, and Porte and Pogacar rode a (for them) perfect race and didn't fade as much.

 

[IndurainsTdF1994]

I also think he isn't the strongest guy from a mental point of view.

His bounce after the TdF TT defeat speaks otherwise. Also, keeping a cool head during all the mountain attacks in Vuelta this year.

 

[Bolder]

Not really.
His sprint might be good enough against the GT climbers, but he doesn't stand a chance against the top notch classic riders (Ala, WVA, Hirschi, MVdP). He's not prime Valverde.

On the other hand, I agree his overall potential is still unclear. He has an insanely high base level. Can that translate to an insanely high peak performance a la Froome? I'm not sure, but you can't rule it out just yet. I'm curious if Jumbo will try a different approach for next year. His consistency is kind of unprecedented among GC riders this century. He's basically a Valverde who can podium any GT he rides. Perhaps they could sacrifice a bit of that consistency to have him fresher for his main target of the season?

I think he actually can sprint as well as some of those guys. Ok, well, not the CX guys, but some of the lighter puncheurs like Hirschi and Alaf. He's about their size, and at LBL he had just finished a pretty grueling stretch of racing without any rest days.

Anyone who has his kick at the end of a shortish MTF surely can take on the Ardennes, at least.

On your second point, agree fully.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

His bounce after the TdF TT defeat speaks otherwise. Also, keeping a cool head during all the mountain attacks in Vuelta this year.

It's possible it's just an impression based on him fading in the third week and his demeanor. It's also not the main point of what i was saying.

 

[Red Rick]

Lmao I didn't know this was a thing

 

[Carols]

Lmao I didn't know this was a thing

Wow he can play drums also!

 

[Gargamel35]

Question is, is there anything he can't do? There's a rumour he was thinking about going to politics (president of USA) a while back (since, he's no good at cycling according to some on this forum) and world just decided to create a fake pandemic and lock countries down to keep him away. When asked about this, he said: "You think i can't do that? Hold my beer!" Since he drank Corona beer at the time, world called fake pandemic the same. So now he can't travel to USA, elections are over and he needs to continue cycling for another 3 - 4 years.

That was such a bad joke...

 

[Red Rick]

Can confirm. That was awful.

 

[Red Rick]

Lmao they made a medal for the guy who pushed Roglic in the ITT

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Lmao I didn't know this was a thing

Not bad, but It's no Kim Kim Kimi Kirchen

 

[bajbar]

Lmao they made a medal for the guy who pushed Roglic in the ITT

Made out of a bike chain no less!

 

[topt]

I honestly think he's hit his peak, or about as close to it as we'll see him. And even if i'm wrong, i'm not so sure whatever he can still gain, will matter all that much. Pogacar is only going to get better and get better support. Carapaz is still going to get better (and get actual support), Dumoulin is a year younger, and he hasn't been "worn out" either and is sure to return significantly better than in 2020. Bernal is going to come back better. Carthy, Mas, Evenepoel, Hindley... all have a much bigger chance to leapfrog him, than him finding a so called magical "other gear". Having seen him winning plenty of one week stageraces comfortably, i can't help but get the impression three weeks is seriously "stretching him thin". I also think he isn't the strongest guy from a mental point of view.

In a sense he's caught between generations, and in his case, that may very well have been his luck. Froome, Thomas, Nibali... are all done (not to mention Contador etc), but Bernal, Pogacar are much younger and already hit a higher peak, caught a bigger fish than him. Even if he still has a small margin of improvement, there are guys waiting in line, who still have a much bigger margin of improvement while they almost or already surpassed him. It may very well have been his only real shot at winning the Tour, and i wouldn't bet my house on him ever winning any other GT either. Just like the window of opportunity has closed for Landa, Bardet, Pinot, Yates and others in their late 20's to early 30's.

In any case, i sincerely hope we get a less formulaic version of Roglic in 2021, because he's bored the snot out of me this year. In fact, imho it is an extra indicator there is no other gear. The scripted manner in which he rides (or the team for him), seldom if ever (since becoming an actual GT GC contender) attacking further than 400 meters away, tells me that is all he can spare in order to get the job done. Barely and in unspectacular fashion.

There is a hell lot of wrong with this post but I think you really miss times when all the riders had asthma

 

[topt]

Man, this forum is really quickly throwing fresh GT winner under a bus. He's just not good enough for this couch potatoes.

I think its more about some people here want the EPO times back

 

[BlueRoads]

I think its more about some people here want the EPO times back

Clinic talk, nah?
You can have differing opinions, but I think Logic has made a fair post.

 

[topt]

Clinic talk, nah?
You can have differing opinions, but I think Logic has made a fair post.

is it ? times when riders just went away and didnt feel legs are gone, Roglic gets criticized cause he doesnt do that. There are extremely small differences betwen the top riders

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

There is a hell lot of wrong with this post but I think you really miss times when all the riders had asthma

Nothing wrong with that post. Not in the slightest. Or are you insinuating Carapaz, Carthy, Pogacar... are all doping? Because they all ride a hell of a lot more attractively.

 

[Gargamel35]

Don't spend your time with Logic guy. He's a known Roglič hater so any time arguing with him is time thrown away.

 

[BlueRoads]

Don't spend your time with Logic guy. He's a known Roglič hater so any time arguing with him is time thrown away.

Logic is a Roglic hater? The only thing I know is he's quite a fan of van Aert and Evenepoel. But they are not yet rivals of Roglic.
Just because someone critizes a few aspects of a rider does not mean he's a hater. And certainly just because someone is not a huge fan of someone he's not immediately a hater. Does this thread have to be a cathedral?

 

[Gargamel35]

Logic is a Roglic hater? The only thing I know is he's quite a fan of van Aert and Evenepoel. But they are not yet rivals of Roglic.
Just because someone critizes a few aspects of a rider does not mean he's a hater. And certainly just because someone is not a huge fan of someone he's not immediately a hater. Does this thread have to be a cathedral?

Check his posts. Every time he talks about Roglič is only when he can talk bad about him. Even if he wins, he didn't win exiting enough for couch Logic. It's never good enough for this guy and he manages to find a problem in any topic about Roglič.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Logic is a Roglic hater? The only thing I know is he's quite a fan of van Aert and Evenepoel. But they are not yet rivals of Roglic.
Just because someone critizes a few aspects of a rider does not mean he's a hater. And certainly just because someone is not a huge fan of someone he's not immediately a hater. Does this thread have to be a cathedral?

I don't know who you're responding to, so i assume it's a user i blocked.

I was actually quite supportive of Roglic in past seasons. Even last year i never had any problems with him or his way of riding. But this year he really rubbed me the wrong way. Very formulaic and imho boring. Of course, it's most likely the team management that is to blame for that more than him. I did say his way of talking (in interviews) annoys me a lot. So maybe that's where it came from.