Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

[jmdirt]

I've seen many TdFs and these first 3 stages are some of the worst starts I've ever seen if you want to see an interesting GC battle. All that anticipation for Pog&Rog is now done. Unless you are a MVDP/Alpecin fan then everything is going great. If you are a Roglic fan then for sure this is the worst ever. And guess in which thread are you in now..."worst ever" it's all subjective.
Then ignore the sprinters discussion or don't come with *** facts.
So because Wiggo has a TdF that makes him bigger in the GC GOAT discussion than Roglic and many others greats who never won TdF? Pereiro also won a TdF, I guess all the GC guys who never did it are behind him.

Yes.
EDIT: I didn't post ars facts because this isn't their thread.

 

[Luthor]

Yes.

Good thing not everyone has tunnel vision only on TdF otherwise the other GTs would be boring.

 

[jmdirt]

Good thing not everyone has tunnel vision only on TdF otherwise the other GTs would be boring.

IMO, the other GT's are often better than the TdF.

 

[JosefK]

There are many GOATs.

Moral Goats
Hypothetical Goats
Popularity Goats
Objective Goats
Subjective Goats

The list goes on and on.

Great points. For instance, my subjective tennis GOAT is Björn Borg. He never won the U.S. Open, and his total number of Grand Slam wins has long since been dwarfed by Fed, Nadal, Joker, even Sampras, but he's my GOAT anyway. This also gives away my age, to some extent. I don't yet shout at kids to get off of my lawn, but I've become more tempted lately.

I will say that Primoz is not my own subjective GOAT cyclist (it's Eddy Merckx for me) . . . but Roglic is my favorite rider currently on the world tour. I do suffer with him. Maybe not as bad as with Pinot in the 2019 Tour, though. Also, I reserve the right to change my own subjective GOATs and favorites on a whim. It happens, from time to time.

 

[Rackham]

On the topic of "greatest of all time" (entirely subjective as always, i.e. stats don't tell the whole story, ever), just recently we've been hearing a lot about Raymond Poulidor.

In France, he was absolutely considered a GOAT & a legend. Yet he had no yellow, no Tour title. Ask anyone in the street (just randoms, not even cycling fans) & people know him... whereas ask someone about Wiggins, Cadel Evans or Carlos Sastre & you'll get a shrug which says "who the hell are they?".

And in this era of mass mass media & most races available to watch on TV/or streaming (& the competitiveness to win something in cycling), I'd wager winning a Giro or Vuelta is now worth much more to someone's reputation than 10 years ago. And more importantly, it's now the "journey" which makes riders famous & legendary (i.e. consistently doing something memorable & being involved in memorable races, whether winning or not).

Roglic certainly has that part covered in recent years.

 

[Pantani_lives]

There's an uncanny resemblance between Tony Rominger and Primoz Roglic.

Rominger
1992 Wins Vuelta, no Tour
1993 Wins Vuelta, second in Tour
1994 Wins Vuelta, DNF in Tour

Roglic
2019 Wins Vuelta, no Tour
2020 Wins Vuelta, second in Tour
2021 ???

 

[Gargamel35]

There's an uncanny resemblance between Tony Rominger and Primoz Roglic.

Rominger
1992 Wins Vuelta, no Tour
1993 Wins Vuelta, second in Tour
1994 Wins Vuelta, DNF in Tour

Roglic
2019 Wins Vuelta, no Tour
2020 Wins Vuelta, second in Tour
2021 ???

That's freaky.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

When is the last time a rider as banged up as Primoz is won the Tour? It doesn't happen.

Can't recall any such instance, either.

Froome was pretty banged up when he won the Giro, though. But they didn't distance him when they had the chance. Basically allowed him to recover.

Can't see UAE and INEOS (if Carapaz is okay) softpedalling stages 8 & 9, though. If Rogla loses less than a minute there I won't write him off completely.

 

[Pinot's goat]

I haven't call him GOAT in terms of GC, I'm just saying he is ahead of Wiggins.

I agree with Froome and Pog. Dumoulin and Nibali is debatable. Then why Carapaz and Thomas were seen less favorites than him this year if they had bigger peaks? Roglic was tired in Vuelta and did a lot of mistakes, still won the Vuelta against Carapaz.

Peak Thomas was 2018 and this course is not a standard grand tour route due to 60km ITT and only 3 summit finishes so Carapaz is rated lower. Carapaz was also tired in La Vuelta from his TDF exploits and had no team unlike Roglic. Unfortunately with Roglic's injury we might not get to see who is actually superior in this TDF.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

There's an uncanny resemblance between Tony Rominger and Primoz Roglic.

Rominger
1992 Wins Vuelta, no Tour
1993 Wins Vuelta, second in Tour
1994 Wins Vuelta, DNF in Tour

Roglic
2019 Wins Vuelta, no Tour
2020 Wins Vuelta, second in Tour
2021 ???

He's the second Rominger for a reason.

 

[Red Rick]

Peak Thomas was 2018 and this course is not a standard grand tour route due to 60km ITT and only 3 summit finishes so Carapaz is rated lower. Carapaz was also tired in La Vuelta from his TDF exploits and had no team unlike Roglic. Unfortunately with Roglic's injury we might not get to see who is actually superior in this TDF.

Roglic did Tour for GC then rode Worlds and LBL for the win, also raced harder before the Tour yadayadayada.

How anyone looks at that Vuelta and thinks it's says Carapaz has a similar peak to Roglic is beyond me. I don't think he finishes within 5 minutes when both are healthy.

 

[bNator]

Roglic did Tour for GC then rode Worlds and LBL for the win, also raced harder before the Tour yadayadayada.

How anyone looks at that Vuelta and thinks it's says Carapaz has a similar peak to Roglic is beyond me. I don't think he finishes within 5 minutes when both are healthy.

But he didnt have a team

 

[Red Rick]

But he didnt have a team

Alright where did Roglic gain huge because of his stronger team? Certainly not when the rain jacket incident happened? Other than that he dropped Roglic twice for like 30s total, got dropped once for about 12s, and got deleted in all the bonus sprints and in a time trial.

It was a Grand Tour with aobut 6 big MTFs, including the Angliru, 30km of flat ITT and most of Carapaz gains were due to a rain jacket.

 

[BigCoward]

Roglic did Tour for GC then rode Worlds and LBL for the win, also raced harder before the Tour yadayadayada.

How anyone looks at that Vuelta and thinks it's says Carapaz has a similar peak to Roglic is beyond me. I don't think he finishes within 5 minutes when both are healthy.

Roglic only beat 39 year old Valverde by 2 and a bit minutes, no way he is 5 mins better than Carapaz. He maybe better but that is just crazy talk.

 

[Red Rick]

Roglic only beat 39 year old Valverde by 2 and a bit minutes, no way he is 5 mins better than Carapaz. He maybe better but that is just crazy talk.

Carapaz was already half a minute down after 2 hilly stages lol. Everything this season indicates Roglic and Pogacar are miles ahead of the rest.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Lets see first how good injured Roglič does against some of the names some of you mentioned. As if injured Roglič will be able to cope then we would be discussing bollocks anyway.

 

[Red Rick]

Lets see first how good injured Roglič does against some of the names some of you mentioned. As if injured Roglič will be able to cope then we would be discussing bollocks anyway.

Thing is then you're jsut arguing about how severe the injury was and it's all just circular arguments.

 

[BigCoward]

Carapaz was already half a minute down after 2 hilly stages lol. Everything this season indicates Roglic and Pogacar are miles ahead of the rest.

5 minutes better? Because that is the discussion. Peak Froome never won a GT by 5 minutes (IIRC), and Roglic is no peak Froome. Its the hyperbole I am arguing with, not whether he is better than Carapaz.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Thing is then you're jsut arguing about how severe the injury was and it's all just circular arguments.

There are pictures in this thread and they would be applicable in any court of public opinion. In addition half of his team already went down and he lost Gesink.

Bottom line if Roglič will be able to cope against the names some people where mentioning then their claims where bogus.

 

[bNator]

Alright where did Roglic gain huge because of his stronger team? Certainly not when the rain jacket incident happened? Other than that he dropped Roglic twice for like 30s total, got dropped once for about 12s, and got deleted in all the bonus sprints and in a time trial.

It was a Grand Tour with aobut 6 big MTFs, including the Angliru, 30km of flat ITT and most of Carapaz gains were due to a rain jacket.

Oh no - I was just being sarcastic. I completey agree with you. It’s just a standard response that @Pinot's goat was going to use…

 

[Red Rick]

5 minutes better? Because that is the discussion. Peak Froome never won a GT by 5 minutes (IIRC), and Roglic is no peak Froome. Its the hyperbole I am arguing with, not whether he is better than Carapaz.

I don't think Carapaz would be 2nd.

 

[CyclistAbi]

As if some other riders are really that much better GT riders. As some people claim. It would in my opinion look bad, for them, if Roglič would still be able to cope.

It's a long shot anyway, but lets see the TT first and likely Pogačar and Co. will go for blood on the first mountain stage. If Roglič can handle that then i feel that healing and peaking could still come at the right time.

 

[cellardoor]

For instance, my subjective tennis GOAT is Björn Borg. He never won the U.S. Open, and his total number of Grand Slam wins has long since been dwarfed by Fed, Nadal, Joker, even Sampras, but he's my GOAT anyway.

Another tennis example is Ivan Lendl. Pretty sure a lot of people would consider him one of the all time greats, even though he never won Wimbledon.

 

[CyclistAbi]

I just called Karma and must say Karma was bitchy about it. Why do you call me was the first answer. Talk to Colbrelli as the whole thing is on the video. Before hanging up i heard something like jeez, why do everybody call me in such situations i am a Roglič fan too. Just as pissed about it as anybody.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Just read in the local media that cyclist demanded from ASO to make stage 3 safer otherwise there will be crashes. ASO refused to apply. After crashes happened UCI claimed somewhere in the lines of it was riders fault. Regarding Roglič and Co. And now stage 4 will go on as like nothing happened and nobody could have done anything. Just don't supertuck and all will be fine and lets find and fine that woman to prove something.

A really bad joke.