Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

[CyclistAbi]

There is still potential and lately i have seen it in a stage or two, regarding Kruijswijk. Age therefore can't be the main problem.

Dismissing a cyclist of such calibre is the easiest thing to do but then what. At minimum you need to find a replacement. They for sure got lucky with Vingegaard but it is not like that can happen each year. It usually takes a couple of years to get to the same level.

Long story short manage Kruijswijk better and the results of that will come on the Tour. On the other races you are sending Roglič more or less alone anyway. Couple of youngsters to support him, at best.

 

[CyclistAbi]

And i guess lets wait a bit longer. I doubt Kruijswijk (and Kuss) came to this race to support Roglič in this early stages.

When the crunch time will come we will obviously know if they are still good at that or not.

 

[Oldermanish]

And i guess lets wait a bit longer. I doubt Kruijswijk (and Kuss) came to this race to support Roglič in this early stages.

When the crunch time will come we will obviously know if they are still good at that or not.

They need to come around soon because there is some topography coming....

 

[bNator]

There is still potential and lately i have seen it in a stage or two, regarding Kruijswijk. Age therefore can't be the main problem.

Dismissing a cyclist of such calibre is the easiest thing to do but then what. At minimum you need to find a replacement. They for sure got lucky with Vingegaard but it is not like that can happen each year. It usually takes a couple of years to get to the same level.

Long story short manage Kruijswijk better and the results of that will come on the Tour. On the other races you are sending Roglič more or less alone anyway. Couple of youngsters to support him, at best.

What stages are you talking about?

And yes, I agree they should manage Kruijswijk better in terms that they should convince him to drop his personal goals and motivate him to give his best for his team. But that’s not what we were talking about earlier - you were talking about him being podium contender again… and any illusion of him capable of doing that is bad for him and a waste for TJV. Waiting for Kruijswijk to bounce back into being podium contender is a chance lost to work on his domestique skills (or finding a real domestique)…

 

[CyclistAbi]

@Oldermanish

Starting with stage 7 and 9 that will i guess tell.

@bNator

I actually mention that here on the forum. When he does a good job. And i remember doing that once or twice in the past year or so. I could search the forum to get the exact stages but best to wait for stage 7 and 9. And obviously more or less the whole week 3. There is massive amount of support needed on the schedule and lets see how he will cope.

As for motivating Kruijswijk by holding him back. By now i am rather sure we established that this formula doesn't work at all.

 

[SafeBet]

Kruijswijk has been so bad the past 2 years that his personal ambition is irrelevant. The reason for him being of zero help is the lack of legs, not the lack of motivation.

 

[CyclistAbi]

I checked some pictures and the legs are still attached. He didn't have such injuries that would explain such drop in form. Age could start to be a problem but not to this extent.

It's rather obvious where the problem is. Now it's up to JV to manage that better.

 

[Red Rick]

Anyway if Nibali does not win the Giro and a monument next year I'm gonna sack Vino from Astana.

 

[bNator]

As for motivating Kruijswijk by holding him back. By now i am rather sure we established that this formula doesn't work at all.

But how was he ever held back? Whenever he attended a stage race in the past what, 5/6 years, he was there as a leader or at least co-leader. Even for this years TDF he was officially named co-leader. And even if he wasn't - he knows that if he has the legs, he will get his chance... I'm sure there is not a single example of Kruijswijk being held back by his team. Of course, I'm ready to be proven otherwise...

It's rather obvious where the problem is. Now it's up to JV to manage that better.

It's not obvious at all. By applying this logic, a rider is never at fault for anything - it's always team's mismanagement.

 

[CyclistAbi]

I feel that it was a good thing to establish the hierarchy where on a race such as the Tour Roglič is the leader. Beyond that good individual and team management doesn't come down to saying OK Roglič is not participating in this race, hence Kuss and Kruijswijk are free to do whatever they want. As the result is nor Kuss or Kruijswijk will win anything. Here they should do a better job. Be more serious about achieving such goals. Races where Roglič and van Aert don't participate are painful to watch if you are a JV fan. Total lack of motivation, strategy, results ... Like why are you making me do it. What is the point. And this approach for sure affects "higher" goals in the season.

 

[CyclistAbi]

All i know is on a race like Tour 2022 they will need 4 climbers (for support) in top shape if they want to win it. Without Kruijswijk in top shape they don't have that. And you don't have to be an expert to see current management regarding Kruijswijk doesn't bear fruit. Read the Rogličes thread on how people are constantly complaining. Saying well it is his fault. Fine. But how exactly does that help with anything? Finger pointing won't help. Team needs to do a better job. That is why they are there for.

 

[Carols]

All i know is on a race like Tour 2022 they will need 4 climbers (for support) in top shape if they want to win it. Without Kruijswijk in top shape they don't have that. And you don't have to be an expert to see current management regarding Kruijswijk doesn't bear fruit. Read the Rogličes thread on how people are constantly complaining. Saying well it is his fault. Fine. But how exactly does that help with anything? Finger pointing won't help. Team needs to do a better job. That is why they are there for.

This horse is dead, so maybe stop beating it?

 

[Red Rick]

They have Kuss, Vingegaard en Van Aert. 95% of the rest of the equation is if Roglic can beat Pogacar head on and if he doesn't crash.

 

[Luthor]

They have Kuss, Vingegaard en Van Aert. 95% of the rest of the equation is if Roglic can beat Pogacar head on and if he doesn't crash.

That's a big if. What happens if Roglic is slightly worse than Pog and would lose about 1 minute in a fair battle. How would TJV overcome the deficit? It's kinda easy to plan when you have the strongest rider but if you don't it's a challenge. The answers are obviously Jonas, Kuss and maybe to some extent Dumo. But will they be good enough to put Pog under pressure? That's my equation tbh.

I don't see Kruijswijk bouncing back tbh. He had all year to improve and his form is not there in any race. I hope he proves me wrong. At this point his place in TDF 2022 is far from safe.

 

[bNator]

That's a big if. What happens if Roglic is slightly worse than Pog and would lose about 1 minute in a fair battle. How would TJV overcome the deficit? It's kinda easy to plan when you have the strongest rider but if you don't it's a challenge. The answers are obviously Jonas, Kuss and maybe to some extent Dumo. But will they be good enough to put Pog under pressure? That's my equation tbh.

I don't see Kruijswijk bouncing back tbh. He had all year to improve and his form is not there in any race. I hope he proves me wrong. At this point his place in TDF 2022 is far from safe.

If Pogačar is way better than Roglič then there's not much they can do. But one minute deficit can be overcome by the cunning use of Vingegaard. If Vingegaard at least keeps this years form, he should be able to put Pogacar under pressure. After all, Vingegaard lost significant time to Pogacar this year only on one stage where he fell and weather was terrible. And he did drop him on Mont Ventoux…

 

[Krzysztof_O]

If Pogačar is way better than Roglič then there not much they can do. But one minute deficit can be overcome by the cunning use of Vingegaard. If Vingegaard at least keeps this years form, he should be able to put Pogacar under pressure. After all, Vingegaard lost significant time to Pogacar this year only on one stage where he fell and weather was terrible. And he did drop him…

Exactly. Vingegaard would be Roglic's biggest weapon forcing Pog to chase and expand more energy (or even helping Rog to escape from Pog - it could have been the case on Ventoux). Obviously if Pog knocks out at least one of Roglic/Vingegaard on the first mountain stage (like this year) then this tactic would be more difficult to implement.

 

[Oldermanish]

Dammit! Couldn't Roglic lose a few seconds and let Movistar flail about for a week or so?

 

[IndurainsTdF1994]

Dammit! Couldn't Roglic lose a few seconds and let Movistar flail about for a week or so?

As if they won’t now…

But Roglic overtaking Cort in the last meters was Schachman’s (and Bernal’s etc) last chance at the gc.

 

[johnymax]

As if they won’t now…

But Roglic overtaking Cort in the last meters was Schachman’s (and Bernal’s etc) last chance at the gc.

I don't get it.

 

[Eeslliw]

I don't get it.

He is referring to this years Paris-Nice where Roglic crashed 2x in last stage and lost yellow (and Schachmann won). Many has said it was karma for overtaking Mader stage before (stupid, but this is internet ).

 

[johnymax]

He is referring to this years Paris-Nice where Roglic crashed 2x in last stage and lost yellow (and Schachmann won). Many has said it was karma for overtaking Mader stage before (stupid, but this is internet ).

Thanks. Now it makes sense

 

[CyclistAbi]

They have Kuss, Vingegaard en Van Aert. 95% of the rest of the equation is if Roglic can beat Pogacar head on and if he doesn't crash.

In the end Roglič will need to beat Pogačar that much is true. But that is merely a moment on a GT race. They have four spots left for climbers (for support). I don't consider van Aert to fit in this group but he already has a spot. Vingegaard and Kuss yes but this is simply not enough. Pogačar will have Almeida and the other two are not that bad either. Bottom line JV needs another two in top form. If you take Kruijswijk from the equation i don't see it ATM on how it could work. If they believe Roglič will cope just fine for a couple of days, like on this Vuelta. Then best to do the Giro first.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Pogačar has around 2 minutes head start. With Rohan they shaved 30s, team stability. Another 30s by putting more emphasis on ITT. They should lobby a bit to get another 30s from TTT. Four climbers for support in top shape to frustrate Pogačar when attacking should bring that additional 30s. If they will bring only one or two then they lost upfront.

As for the rest. For sure that is on Roglič to beat Pogačar. Likely mano a mano.

 

[southwards]

Dammit! Couldn't Roglic lose a few seconds and let Movistar flail about for a week or so?

I expect tomorrow the break getting a monster lead. They did this last year, shall do this tomorrow.

 

[bNator]

In the end Roglič will need to beat Pogačar that much is true. But that is merely a moment on a GT race. They have four spots left for climbers (for support). I don't consider van Aert to fit in this group but he already has a spot. Vingegaard and Kuss yes but this is simply not enough. Pogačar will have Almeida and the other two are not that bad either. Bottom line JV needs another two in top form. If you take Kruijswijk from the equation i don't see it ATM on how it could work. If they believe Roglič will cope just fine for a couple of days, like on this Vuelta. Then best to do the Giro first.

Look, i don’t know what your obsession with Kruijswijk is all of a sudden, but constantly suggesting he is some kind of missing ingredient to TJV domination (while completely ignoring all the counter arguments that are presented to you) is getting a bit annoying. Kruijswijk is a diesel, he has always been a diesel and he is not putting anyone under pressure, let alone Pogacar. Not on his best day, even less now or next year. I have yet to see Kruijswijk doing anything else other than following wheels up the climb…