Of course he didn't win enough to be regarded as a legend for that alone, but still being able to do something that hadn't been accomplished in almost 40 years of racing should certainly make people remember him for longer than Cunego.
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Of course he didn't win enough to be regarded as a legend for that alone, but still being able to do something that hadn't been accomplished in almost 40 years of racing should certainly make people remember him for longer than Cunego.
That's a solid list.
They all have better palmares than any current rider. Of the current crop, obviously the Big 5 have the best chance for legend status. Pogacar, Roglic, van der Poel, van Aert and Alaphilippe, with Evenepoel and Bernal as slightly less likely. Pogacar probably is the most probable legend on that list for a number of reasons, but I agree that one more monument and a Tour win would help Roglic's cause.
Just looking at some of the names thrown around as "legends" tells me I'm the worst person to objectively judge on this issue. Why? Because I don't like most of them & actively supported their rivals whenever they were dominant. For me they're not legends & I'll never speak of them as such.
Roglic though is different, i.e. I take great satisfaction in seeing how far he's climbed (pun unintended) as a cyclist since the 2017 season (when I first really started paying attention & following his results). Everything always seems like a work in progress & he puts so much commitment & heart into everything (yes, more so than others) so to see where he is now... wow, amazing.
Even something as subtle as his climbing technique (big gear this year! i.e. even the camera showed it at the end of the race today) has progressed. And no matter how much sh*t hits him in the face, he always gets right back to work & thinks/rides positively. No playing games either, i.e. with other riders we read how some might be taking it easy to save form (for example for Saturday & Lombardia), whereas Roglic rides hard & fast no matter the race & takes anything he can when he gets the chance.
Oh & he's the best climber puncheur combo I've ever seen. He's like peak Valverde but actually capable of winning GT's & beating the best over long climbs, whilst also fighting the best short distance puncheurs (like Alaphilippe) on their own favorite terrain. And he gives his fans constant all-year action whilst other riders will appear asleep at the wheel after they've won their biggest goals. So there's never a dull moment (& win or lose on Saturday I assure you all he'll be right there in the thick of the action, one way or another, good or bad).
That's how I see it & I can also foresee even post-peak Roglic being a premier source of entertainment whenever he gets the chance.
Roglic though is different, i.e. I take great satisfaction in seeing how far he's climbed (pun unintended) as a cyclist since the 2017 season (when I first really started paying attention & following his results). Everything always seems like a work in progress & he puts so much commitment & heart into everything (yes, more so than others) so to see where he is now... wow, amazing.
Even something as subtle as his climbing technique (big gear this year! i.e. even the camera showed it at the end of the race today) has progressed. And no matter how much sh*t hits him in the face, he always gets right back to work & thinks/rides positively. No playing games either, i.e. with other riders we read how some might be taking it easy to save form (for example for Saturday & Lombardia), whereas Roglic rides hard & fast no matter the race & takes anything he can when he gets the chance.
Oh & he's the best climber puncheur combo I've ever seen. He's like peak Valverde but actually capable of winning GT's & beating the best over long climbs, whilst also fighting the best short distance puncheurs (like Alaphilippe) on their own favorite terrain. And he gives his fans constant all-year action whilst other riders will appear asleep at the wheel after they've won their biggest goals. So there's never a dull moment (& win or lose on Saturday I assure you all he'll be right there in the thick of the action, one way or another, good or bad).
That's how I see it & I can also foresee even post-peak Roglic being a premier source of entertainment whenever he gets the chance.
Obviously it's personal preference but at certain point you have to say that a rider with, say, à palmares like Sagan's deserves consideration and respect.
Bettini too.
But I would say that I will expect a lot of the current best riders to enter the realm of legends too (Wout, Mathieu, Pogacar, Roglic, Alaphilippe, Remco).
What's really impressive with Roglic is that stat about winning a GT stage in every GT he finishes for 6 years. Which for not a sprinter is fairly impressive. Especially considering he's won the on many different ways. TT, breakaway, solo downhill attack, 50 km attack, MTF, murito, and uphill small group...
Oh yeah definitely Bettini.
For me the laziest way to make a cutoff would probably to include any rider has 5 wins in monuments/GTs/WCRR/ORR, and then include additional riders who are close and who have stellar careers outside of that. I would still include Valverde if he'd won 2 LBLs less for example. Cavs Tour stage record is just too big to ignore IMO.
For the current guys I would say Pogacar and Roglic are already very close, and I'm holding a bit back on Van Aert and Van der Poel yet cause I think monuments are harder to predict and for me they need to win quite a few more.
this year looks like the exact repeat of autum 19 for Rogla; he won San Luca and Varesine that year before Lombardia.
So who else noticed Adam Yates spray champagne in his eyes today on the podium? Roglic rubbed his eyes pretty hard afterwards (if you have Eurosport player, check the race replay at the time 01:39:50):
Winning can be dangerous.
Winning can be dangerous.
I think Wout and Mathieu do so many other crazy things that I would think they don't need very many monument wins to be legends.
Time will tell, but I think pure statistics (yeah, I'm suddenly descovering my mathematical side here) point to two of them becoming real legends at best. Well, depends on how tightly you define legend of course.
My list of cycling legends, containing some riders I have never seen live:
Coppi
Merckx
Anquetil
De Vlaeminck
Hinault
LeMond
Indurain
Pantani
Contador
Boonen
Froome
Sagan
In the end a "legend" is not just the sum of his wins I think, but also his reputation, his story; and often a legend is not just made from what the person themselves does, but how other people treat them, what they think about them, what they write about them, how they are inspired. There's a reason for the word "legend building". The narrative of a legend is at least as important as the achievements. Someone not so big can become a bigger legend with time. Someone with incredible achievements doesn't necessarily become a legend, and if he's forgotten there is no possibility to say "he's a legend, he's just forgotten", because legends are simply not the people who are forgotten, by definition I think.
And has Marilyn Monroe really done something so extra-ordinary in her life? But I don't think there's any doubt she's a legend. A legend is a kind of myth, in the end. Hence I'm leaving out Sean Kelly, Cancellara and Gilbert (although with Cancellara I'm really on the edge here.) Hence Boonen is in although I seriously dislike him. Froome is in despite that many people will call him boring and a product, but he shaped a decade with his GT dominance and his Ventoux run I think is some serious legend stuff. Hence LeMond is in. Hence Valverde isn't, although he might be at one point simply for his longevity.
Oh, and a "legend" cannot be someone who's mostly remembered as the biggest cheater, sorry Lance...
How can you put froom and Sagan and Contador but not nibaliTime will tell, but I think pure statistics (yeah, I'm suddenly descovering my mathematical side here) point to two of them becoming real legends at best. Well, depends on how tightly you define legend of course.
My list of cycling legends, containing some riders I have never seen live:
Coppi
Merckx
Anquetil
De Vlaeminck
Hinault
LeMond
Indurain
Pantani
Contador
Boonen
Froome
Sagan
In the end a "legend" is not just the sum of his wins I think, but also his reputation, his story; and often a legend is not just made from what the person themselves does, but how other people treat them, what they think about them, what they write about them, how they are inspired. There's a reason for the word "legend building". The narrative of a legend is at least as important as the achievements. Someone not so big can become a bigger legend with time. Someone with incredible achievements doesn't necessarily become a legend, and if he's forgotten there is no possibility to say "he's a legend, he's just forgotten", because legends are simply not the people who are forgotten, by definition I think.
And has Marilyn Monroe really done something so extra-ordinary in her life? But I don't think there's any doubt she's a legend. A legend is a kind of myth, in the end. Hence I'm leaving out Sean Kelly, Cancellara and Gilbert (although with Cancellara I'm really on the edge here.) Hence Boonen is in although I seriously dislike him. Froome is in despite that many people will call him boring and a product, but he shaped a decade with his GT dominance and his Ventoux run I think is some serious legend stuff. Hence LeMond is in. Hence Valverde isn't, although he might be at one point simply for his longevity.
Oh, and a "legend" cannot be someone who's mostly remembered as the biggest cheater, sorry Lance...
How exactly can you put Boonen but not Cancellara? Because he (Cancellara) didn't do cocaine in his spare time?
It's just my very personal list, I wouldn't fight over who's on it and who's not. But I think that if you ask "people on the street", or let's say people who watch some cycling now and then, Froome and Sagan and Contador would be bigger names to them than Nibali.
Well, something like that, yeah... For some reason I think Boonen has made that name of himself that Cancellara hasn't as much, as a "hard-man" and "charismatic guy" and someone everybody mentions and who inspired people and such... I think he's just a step ahead in that regard. (Unfortunately.)
Finally we agree on something, BlueRoads doesn't have a good list
No, but seriously, I just don't get it at all? Cancellara even had his time trial which won him four World titles, two Olympic golds and five opening Tour stages which meant that he was almost always in yellow. And he was just as good on the cobbles as Boonen and even won Strade Bianche three times. And MSR (okay, Boonen got one rainbow).
And he even got his own dialect named after him.
Well, it's just based on my impression. If it was about results I would absolutely have to include someone like Sean Kelly. But my impression might be very personal and rightfully contested. Cavendish would probably also be a very contested omission. I'm just trying to imagine what people in 30, 40 years would think, who they would remember as "legends".
I did! It was pretty hilariousSo who else noticed Adam Yates spray champagne in his eyes today on the podium? Roglic rubbed his eyes pretty hard afterwards (if you have Eurosport player, check the race replay at the time 01:39:50):
Winning can be dangerous.
Izjemni Roglič dobil najstarejšo klasiko na svetu
Slovenija ima zmagovalca tudi na enodnevni klasiki Milano-Torino. To je Primož Roglič, ki je opravil s tekmeci na 190 km dolgi preizkušnji. Četrto mesto je osvojil Tadej Pogačar.
www.rtvslo.si
Great route, strong field and a beautiful win! Now that's how you celebrate your 60th!
Think you.
I think you're a bit too crytical on the way you put "legend status", but fair enough. IMHO you've mised one name:
Felice Gimondi.
He's won all the GT's, 3 (??) Monuments and a rainbow. Deffo deserves the legends status, at least on my...and perhaps many other's list.
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