Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

[bNator]

I think to be considered a legend, a rider must be a defining character of his era. When you think of the 90’s - who do you think of? Indurain, right? He’s a legend. Btw I met the guy on the airport in Bilbao one time and I was with two coworkers there who never watched cycling. And they immediately knew him somehow but couldn’t quite say who he was. Thought he was a former football player… True legends transcend the sport.

I think Roglic will be a legend if he keeps this up for another year or two. He doesn’t need to win TDF to do it. He lost it in a pretty spectacular way and that narrative will surely help establish his legendary status. No one mentioned Fignon, but I think he’s a legend - partly because of how he lost TDF. And the fact that Roglic has narrative instead of just results means there’s a good chance that 20 years from now when thinking back to this era of cycling, Roglic will be one of the first names that come to mind…

 

[Rackham]

In terms of numbers i.e. if we conclude legendary status can be acquired via arithmetic alone, he's at 60 wins & has a current 3x winning streak in the Vuelta. Add another Vuelta next year & he'll mathematically become the most impressive performer in that GT in its history. 4x Vuelta in a row has never been done.

But then there's the battles of the particular era which mean more than numbers, i.e. the legendary fights people remember. It's one of the reasons Pantani is a legend (& yes, if Pantani is on the legendary list then so is Lance), i.e. people remember the crazy battles at the time between the best cyclists in the world. The Alpe D'Huez climb in 1997 was otherworldly (well, we now know what powered them but it was still impressive): Pantani, Ullrich & Virenque were on another planet that day & Ullrich himself was in one of the best forms you'll ever see a Tour winner in... yet Pantani still blew him off his wheel.

So truth be told Roglic could go to the Tour next year & lose against Pogacar, but as long as the fight is crazy & memorable, that's all it'll take to be "legendary" after the fact. And look at the riders Roglic fights against on every terrain all year: Pogacar, Bernal etc. in GT's, Ganna, Dumoulin, Dennis etc. in TT's & the likes of Alaphilippe in one day races. It's not like he's cruising around winning against nobodies.

This applies in other sports like F1 for example, i.e. where Ayrton Senna is considered "the best ever" despite only ever winning 3 titles because the competition & names he fought against made winning all the more impressive (& that's why Schumacher's best years were in the 1990's when he only won 2 titles whereas his 5 titles in the Ferrari aren't valued as much because of the sheer lack of adversity).

 

[Rackham]

And I'll be that guy who gives Lance some "legendary" recognition with a caveat: he was too Tour centric & he should have stopped at five.

The good stuff? The Tours in 2000, 2001 & especially 2003 had really good fights (cyclocross in a field after Beloki crashed being a highlight) & the way he pioneered the whole recon/homework for the Tour made his legacy matter, with also a very big focus on equipment & all the smaller "professionalism" details which were adopted by everyone.

But he got greedy, lost touch with reality & the rest is history. He became a monster by 2005 basically & it ended up destroying him (like that "believe in miracles" podium speech in 2005...). His comeback was insane as well (old man Lance powering up the Ventoux was cringe, as was his demented hypocritical feud with Contador).

But I guess even the sh*t stuff adds to the "legend" in a strange sort of way. And this is cycling, i.e. where the biggest legends (Anquetil, Indurain etc.) have a very similar rider profile in terms of the clinical stuff. It's just they were far less abrasive, polarizing & (let's face it) batshit crazy than Lance so they're remembered more fondly.

 

[Blanco]

Costante Girardengo
Alfredo Binda
Gino Bartali
Fausto Coppi
Rik Van Steenbergen
Louison Bobet
Jacques Anquetil
Rik Van Looy
Raymond Poulidor
Felice Gimondi
Eddy Merckx
Roger De Vlaeminck
Joop Zoetemelk
Francesco Moser
Bernard Hinault
Sean Kelly
Laurent Fignon
Greg Lemond
Miguel Indurain
Marco Pantani
Johan Museeuw
Paolo Bettini
Tom Boonen
Fabian Cancellara
Alejandro Valverde
Alberto Contador
Vincenzo Nibali
Philippe Gilbert
Chris Froome
Peter Sagan

Long list, but all legends imo.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Cycling has too many legends to put in a short list

 

[tobydawq]

Costante Girardengo
Alfredo Binda
Gino Bartali
Fausto Coppi
Rik Van Steenbergen
Louison Bobet
Jacques Anquetil
Rik Van Looy
Raymond Poulidor
Felice Gimondi
Eddy Merckx
Roger De Vlaeminck
Joop Zoetemelk
Francesco Moser
Bernard Hinault
Sean Kelly
Laurent Fignon
Greg Lemond
Miguel Indurain
Marco Pantani
Johan Museeuw
Paolo Bettini
Tom Boonen
Fabian Cancellara
Alejandro Valverde
Alberto Contador
Vincenzo Nibali
Philippe Gilbert
Chris Froome
Peter Sagan

Long list, but all legends imo.

No Ullrich or Armstrong?

 

[topcat]

You are all legends, you legend listers.

 

[Blanco]

No Ullrich or Armstrong?

Ullrich no. He was a great rider, but I rate everyone on that list above him. He's the level below, together with Kubler, Koblet, Ocana, Maertens, Sarroni, Argentin, Raas, Rominger, Jalabert, Zabel, Cipollini, Bartoli, Freire, Cavendish...

Armstrong is a tricky one, obviously. I choose to leave him out of the list, too much controversies are around him.

 

[Carols]

Time will tell, but I think pure statistics (yeah, I'm suddenly descovering my mathematical side here) point to two of them becoming real legends at best. Well, depends on how tightly you define legend of course.
My list of cycling legends, containing some riders I have never seen live:

Coppi
Merckx
Anquetil
De Vlaeminck
Hinault
LeMond
Indurain
Pantani
Contador
Boonen
Froome
Sagan

In the end a "legend" is not just the sum of his wins I think, but also his reputation, his story; and often a legend is not just made from what the person themselves does, but how other people treat them, what they think about them, what they write about them, how they are inspired. There's a reason for the word "legend building". The narrative of a legend is at least as important as the achievements. Someone not so big can become a bigger legend with time. Someone with incredible achievements doesn't necessarily become a legend, and if he's forgotten there is no possibility to say "he's a legend, he's just forgotten", because legends are simply not the people who are forgotten, by definition I think.
Froome is in despite that many people will call him boring and a product, but he shaped a decade with his GT dominance and his Ventoux run I think is some serious legend stuff. Hence LeMond is in. Hence Valverde isn't, although he might be at one point simply for his longevity.


Oh, and a "legend" cannot be someone who's mostly remembered as the biggest cheater, sorry Lance...

At Last Someone who Understands

Re:Froome-I Detest the guy but can't argue his dominance and that he is likely to be remembered.

Sagan -- Just No

 

[Carols]

Think you.
I think you're a bit too crytical on the way you put "legend status", but fair enough. IMHO you've mised one name:
Felice Gimondi.
He's won all the GT's, 3 (??) Monuments and a rainbow. Deffo deserves the legends status, at least on my...and perhaps many other's list.

I told you I was stingy assigning the word. Age and watching thousands upon thousands of cyclists gives perspective. Many Champions but few Legends.
Right now Roglic is already a Champion in my estimation and may build himself into a Legend. He seems to progress constantly. Coming from being a Jr World Champion skijumper to the heights he has reached in cycling is legend building. He just needs to pile onto his accomplishments. Time will tell.

 

[Extinction]

I told you I was stingy assigning the word. Age and watching thousands upon thousands of cyclists gives perspective. Many Champions but few Legends.
Right now Roglic is already a Champion in my estimation and may build himself into a Legend. He seems to progress constantly. Coming from being a Jr World Champion skijumper to the heights he has reached in cycling is legend building. He just needs to pile onto his accomplishments. Time will tell.

He's only missing 5 Tours, 3 Giros, Milano San Remo, Flanders, Roubaix and the World's. Nothing to it.

 

[Carols]

He's only missing 5 Tours, 3 Giros, Milano San Remo, Flanders, Roubaix and the World's. Nothing to it.

Your list of Legends must be even far shorter than mine .
A list of One-Merckx?

 

[Extinction]

Your list of Legends must be even far shorter than mine .

In fact, and I think Roglic is an incredibly awesome example of tenacity, humility and courage, in the way he stoicly comes back from massive setbacks and graciously accepts defeat. That alone is worthy of a legend. Nothing but my sincere admiration, however meaningless. Unfortunately he needs to win, if not all the races I mentioned, then certainly the Tour, the Giro and Milano San Remo to enter legendary status as far as results are concered. He's strong and badf a$$ enough to do it for sure. In bocca al lupo Primoz!

 

[DoYouEvenRideBruh]

Izjemni Roglič dobil najstarejšo klasiko na svetu

Slovenija ima zmagovalca tudi na enodnevni klasiki Milano-Torino. To je Primož Roglič, ki je opravil s tekmeci na 190 km dolgi preizkušnji. Četrto mesto je osvojil Tadej Pogačar.

www.rtvslo.si

Great route, strong field and a beautiful win! Now that's how you celebrate your 60th!

What a cool f*cking trophy btw. Also mito (Mi-To) translates as myth or even legend, so it is fitting in his hands

 

[Carols]

Nothing but my sincere admiration, however meaningless. Unfortunately he needs to win, if not all the races I mentioned, then certainly the Tour, the Giro and Milano San Remo to enter legendary status as far as results are concered. He's strong and badf a$$ enough to do it for sure. In bocca al lupo Primoz!

Certainly the Tour, more than one would help and Giro + at least one more Monument. He has LBL needs at least one different Monument.

"I think Roglic is an incredibly awesome example of tenacity, humility and courage, in the way he stoicly comes back from massive setbacks and graciously accepts defeat"

I agree completely, one of the most Resilient riders I've ever seen. Humble in his tremendous success and gracious in defeat. He is special, there is No Doubt about that.

 

[Carols]

What a cool f*cking trophy btw. Also mito (Mi-To) translates as myth or even legend, so it is fitting in his hands

Isn't it though! Right behind the Trident IMO!

 

[DoYouEvenRideBruh]

Isn't it though! Right behind the Trident IMO!

The trident, the cobble, and the Trofeo Senza Fine are definitely the best, maybe also the Lombardia wheel.

 

[Extinction]

A list of One-Merckx?

No because legends do legendary things, like saying "its all wrong we need to do it again" on the way to winning the Tour or being the "one man in command" between Italy and France or winning 4 Roubaixs or being the Sheriff or the Badger or slaying the Badger and winning by 8 seconds on the Champs-Élysées after gunshot wounds or crushing the TTs and mastering the mountains of France and Italy or pulverizing the competition on the Galibier in horrific atmospheric conditions or irresistably dancing on the pedals.

 

[CyclistAbi]

What a cool f*cking trophy btw. Also mito (Mi-To) translates as myth or even legend, so it is fitting in his hands

There you have it. The ancients have spoken.

 

[Salvarani]

I would like to see him try Flanders and PR.

See what he can do.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Likely when he is a bit older and can gain a kilo or two without sacrificing the rest of the season. Then yes he should try.

Why not?

 

[Red Rick]

He's not made for those races

 

[CyclistAbi]

I have my doubts.

 

[Oldermanish]

Costante Girardengo
Alfredo Binda
Gino Bartali
Fausto Coppi
Rik Van Steenbergen
Louison Bobet
Jacques Anquetil
Rik Van Looy
Raymond Poulidor
Felice Gimondi
Eddy Merckx
Roger De Vlaeminck
Joop Zoetemelk
Francesco Moser
Bernard Hinault
Sean Kelly
Laurent Fignon
Greg Lemond
Miguel Indurain
Marco Pantani
Johan Museeuw
Paolo Bettini
Tom Boonen
Fabian Cancellara
Alejandro Valverde
Alberto Contador
Vincenzo Nibali
Philippe Gilbert
Chris Froome
Peter Sagan

Long list, but all legends imo.

Add Major Taylor, please

 

[CyclistAbi]

During an off season he should test if he is capable of maintaining a high speed ride through the middle of the cobbles section. If yes do it. If no do a Tour or two more.