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It´s not the team doing anything. Just WVA doing WVA stuff.
Exactly. With all the freedom and room for personal ambitions involved. I expected he will be one of the key players for Rogla on stage 5. Not just on 2, 3, 4 and 6.
Anyway. They should own it and possibly fix it. I don't plan to watch this Tour edition with Rogla out of contention.
Fix it.
Rogla being a water mule. Priceless. Pogi having a team working at the front. Priceless.
Anyway. Fix it and lets move on.
Anyway. Fix it and lets move on.
They can't fix it. They have no leadership in the cars either. Who tells WvA what he can or cannot do? Frans Maassen? Grischa Niermann? Or Zeeman from in front of his computer?
Now that the race has calmed down, we'll see whether Rog can recover & survive the final successive small climbs. But this whole first week from Jumbo has been ass-backwards & completely illogical.
Seeing the tactics with van Aert today. No wonder they fell apart on stage 5. But OK. Rogla was able to finish with the best and still produced a mini mini stomp. We can work with that.
For now i will stay here with the help. Until Rogla is a contender again. Tomorrow likely final decision to be made. If Rogla and van Aert to abandon this Tour edition.
We'll see.
For now i will stay here with the help. Until Rogla is a contender again. Tomorrow likely final decision to be made. If Rogla and van Aert to abandon this Tour edition.
We'll see.
Things work better with Sam Oomen, Koen Bouwman & co.
Just look at the stage we just had: complete Jumbo tactical mumbo jumbo. Wout burning himself up front when that finish was perfectly winnable for him. Then Rog putting in a good dig/lead out but Jonas of course didn't have his wheel.
Who makes these calls? It's completely ridiculous.
Not sure Rog will win the Vuelta, this year. If he rides the full TDF, which looks possible now, he may not have the legs for the Vuelta.
Likely goals such as Vuelta and WC could indeed become more feasible. If there would be no chance at this race anymore. Due to health issues. I will still wait till tomorrow. Too see the decision and the outcome of the stage.
Tactically i must say they don't have it. No point in hoping for that. Hence if the injuries are not too bad. And i doubt that. In that case to race a bit by instinct. A couple of days of that won't change much. Maybe to indeed use them as a training ride. If Rogla to decide to finish this misery. I am fine with that too. As then my obligation to watch this race is over.
Tactically i must say they don't have it. No point in hoping for that. Hence if the injuries are not too bad. And i doubt that. In that case to race a bit by instinct. A couple of days of that won't change much. Maybe to indeed use them as a training ride. If Rogla to decide to finish this misery. I am fine with that too. As then my obligation to watch this race is over.
If he rides whole Tour, maybe it wouldn't be bad to skip Vuelta (hard to beat Hindley, Almeida, Yates, Pogacar? and of course Remco, when you are not 100%) and focus on WC RR and Il Lombardia. Surely Pogacar won't be at his best also there? Right? Maybe some nice battle with Alaphilippe is incoming.
Well. It's not like Rogla is a mummy just yet. Due to van Aert burning himself today he should have a GC oriented team at his disposal tomorrow.
Lets hope for the best. The final climb should suit him well.
Lets hope for the best. The final climb should suit him well.
I just want to see Roglic ride in a GT where he doesn't have to be teammates with Van Aert. if that's the Giro next year instead of the Tour then perfect. WVA is a cancer to any GC rider on his team.
Well. We knew it will be challenging and they paid a big price already for it. Going for both jerseys. Still now the race for yellow will come to the front. And i imagine van Aert will still output two Brandons of power. Lets see how that goes. Tomorrow is ideal terrain for such test.
The team should have been built around Roglic this year. Absolutely no doubt in my mind. Bringing Vingeggard as a coleader and wout van aert as a leader is so stupid.
Not even Team Sky at their peak would dare to bring a guy like Van Aert to the Tour. Nor 2 coleaders. And they were competing against Bardet, Quintana, Aru, Uran, Purito. Not Pogacar.
They did it in 2012 with Cavendish but quickly learned their lesson.
Every year Jumbo send a team built around Roglic to the Vuelta and they succeed. They destroy the race, with Roglic the leader.I don't understand their obsession with multiple leaders in the Tour. They wanted to do it in 2020 with Roglic, Dumoulin and Kruijsvijk. They wanted to do it in 2018 with Roglic and Kruijswijk. Makes no sense.
I would send Vingegaard to the Giro. He can win a grand tour there, if he is so good. He has not won a GT before.
Roglic should have a team around him for the Tour. Kruijswijk, Kuss, Laporte, Van hoojdonck, Benoot, Oomen, and then one of Dennis, Gesink, Bouwman or Vingegaard (after giro, if the Denmark grand depart is so important)
Van Aert should be focused on winning monuments. He was signed to do that and has underperformed slightly despite his extreme talent. I wouldn't say he is super selfish, but his presence in the team leads to something being off
2 leaders on a cobble stage is so dumb. You protect your leader the whole stage. He punctures or crashes and the whole team is there for him, they believe in him , they support him, motivate him. When Roglic crashed, he needed his team, and they were nowhere near him. Instead they were helping this Vingegaard who never won a WT Stage race
Look how Arkea look after Nairoman, Bora looks after Vlasov, even Movistar with Mas
Roglic has beaten pretty much everyone on grand tours, even Pogacar. Vingegaard didn't even manage put time into Carapaz in the mountains at all last year. That's right, he couldn't drop Carapaz. Just made time in the 2 long time trials. Meanwhile Roglic has cracked Climber Carapaz multiple times in the mountains. Because he is the only rider close to Pogacar's level
Roglic joined the team in 2015 , a team languishing in the shadow of Rabobank, changing sponsors every year, and within 5 years had won them grand tours and turned them into the top gc team in the world.
He was the top UCI ranked rider for 2 years straight and has beaten Pogacar on multiple occasions. He is one of only 2 riders to have beaten Pogacar in a GT, the other being 42yo Valverde who is in recovery from a crash.
Roglic didn't lose time to Pogacaar in the Tour de France in the Mountains ever. Vingegaard lost 4 minutes.
Roglic deserved the support. If 5 of his teammates aren't working for Vingegaard in that moment, he probably doesn't crashed in the hay bale
Not even Team Sky at their peak would dare to bring a guy like Van Aert to the Tour. Nor 2 coleaders. And they were competing against Bardet, Quintana, Aru, Uran, Purito. Not Pogacar.
They did it in 2012 with Cavendish but quickly learned their lesson.
Every year Jumbo send a team built around Roglic to the Vuelta and they succeed. They destroy the race, with Roglic the leader.I don't understand their obsession with multiple leaders in the Tour. They wanted to do it in 2020 with Roglic, Dumoulin and Kruijsvijk. They wanted to do it in 2018 with Roglic and Kruijswijk. Makes no sense.
I would send Vingegaard to the Giro. He can win a grand tour there, if he is so good. He has not won a GT before.
Roglic should have a team around him for the Tour. Kruijswijk, Kuss, Laporte, Van hoojdonck, Benoot, Oomen, and then one of Dennis, Gesink, Bouwman or Vingegaard (after giro, if the Denmark grand depart is so important)
Van Aert should be focused on winning monuments. He was signed to do that and has underperformed slightly despite his extreme talent. I wouldn't say he is super selfish, but his presence in the team leads to something being off
2 leaders on a cobble stage is so dumb. You protect your leader the whole stage. He punctures or crashes and the whole team is there for him, they believe in him , they support him, motivate him. When Roglic crashed, he needed his team, and they were nowhere near him. Instead they were helping this Vingegaard who never won a WT Stage race
Look how Arkea look after Nairoman, Bora looks after Vlasov, even Movistar with Mas
Roglic has beaten pretty much everyone on grand tours, even Pogacar. Vingegaard didn't even manage put time into Carapaz in the mountains at all last year. That's right, he couldn't drop Carapaz. Just made time in the 2 long time trials. Meanwhile Roglic has cracked Climber Carapaz multiple times in the mountains. Because he is the only rider close to Pogacar's level
Roglic joined the team in 2015 , a team languishing in the shadow of Rabobank, changing sponsors every year, and within 5 years had won them grand tours and turned them into the top gc team in the world.
He was the top UCI ranked rider for 2 years straight and has beaten Pogacar on multiple occasions. He is one of only 2 riders to have beaten Pogacar in a GT, the other being 42yo Valverde who is in recovery from a crash.
Roglic didn't lose time to Pogacaar in the Tour de France in the Mountains ever. Vingegaard lost 4 minutes.
Roglic deserved the support. If 5 of his teammates aren't working for Vingegaard in that moment, he probably doesn't crashed in the hay bale
Roglic does a GT without Van aert every year at the Vuelta and he dominates it
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Wonderful post, Ilmaestro.
In amongst all the truth bombs you just dropped, this is the hardest, most difficult to swallow right now. 30 hours later I still haven't accepted what happened.
It's the fact on the road at that point, Roglic was de-facto Jumbo's GC leader. Right there, right then. What did they do? Pulled away his support from beneath him & favored Vinge. Then once the damage was done in a worst case scenario because he had zero train at that point (bad unlucky crash) they screwed him again.
But it was that initial decision of leaving only Laporte with Roglic when he had Pogacar right there & moves were starting to shoot off in every direction, just no. It's sabotage.
And yes, let's remember where this team was in 2015, 2016. They owe Rog quite a lot.
In amongst all the truth bombs you just dropped, this is the hardest, most difficult to swallow right now. 30 hours later I still haven't accepted what happened.
It's the fact on the road at that point, Roglic was de-facto Jumbo's GC leader. Right there, right then. What did they do? Pulled away his support from beneath him & favored Vinge. Then once the damage was done in a worst case scenario because he had zero train at that point (bad unlucky crash) they screwed him again.
But it was that initial decision of leaving only Laporte with Roglic when he had Pogacar right there & moves were starting to shoot off in every direction, just no. It's sabotage.
And yes, let's remember where this team was in 2015, 2016. They owe Rog quite a lot.
exactly, although the Vuelta is a lot different, there's not anywhere near as much fighting for position in the first week, where if WVA wanted to be he could be a huge asset for Primoz. but instead he has to go for stupid field sprints.
Lets not forget if you are a Rogla fan you want the full scale. From weeping like a baby to tears of joy. We wouldn't have it any other way.
As for van Aert. The classics week is now over. I feel that he owned it. Admitted he could have been there on stage 5. In his own way. Went in the self destruct mode today. And starting tomorrow to show on why you still want van Aert on your side as a GC team.
Like lets say Arnold that destroyed the car. And resolved the issues while doing it.
As for van Aert. The classics week is now over. I feel that he owned it. Admitted he could have been there on stage 5. In his own way. Went in the self destruct mode today. And starting tomorrow to show on why you still want van Aert on your side as a GC team.
Like lets say Arnold that destroyed the car. And resolved the issues while doing it.
Great post Ilmaestro99.
Jumbo are like Sky but without the discipline, commitment and hiearchy that contribute to achieve a single, important goal.
They are a Movistar with more talent, but instead of Quintana they have a multiple talented GT winner that they constantly despise.
They are driven by profit and advertising, so they go after multiple goals not realizing that multiple goals actually conflict with one another and cancel each other out.
Jumbo are like Sky but without the discipline, commitment and hiearchy that contribute to achieve a single, important goal.
They are a Movistar with more talent, but instead of Quintana they have a multiple talented GT winner that they constantly despise.
They are driven by profit and advertising, so they go after multiple goals not realizing that multiple goals actually conflict with one another and cancel each other out.
This week hasn't worked out although yesterday, pre-crash Roglic was sitting well. Instead of being just ahead of that crash and spending the day chasing he was inches away from being ahead of the gap that chased to the finish. JV plans could have been much less of a bust but for that one moment. Pogacar would have been forced to chase with JV on his wheel, rather than in a small, cooperative group. The whole Tour can pivot on these moments. Unfortunately many of these moments have less to do with racing and more to do with unsafe conditions and bad/good luck.
The worst part (& most ironic) is UAE clearly considers Roglic to be the main threat.
As Lanterne Rouge noted in their latest upload, Pog tried to eliminate Roglic for good in stage 6. But, Jumbo has its favorites (WvA & Jonas) & they're committed to pursuing those goals first. The strategy on Thursday was detrimental to Roglic (WvA & Jonas breaking the peloton at one point with Rog in the second group), but they just kept on pushing. There was even talk on Eurosport during the cobbles stage of WvA & Vinge having preferential placement on the team car for their spare bikes.
They want Jonas as GC leader but don't have the balls to come out & tell Roglic he's done in the TdF. I've lost all respect for Maassen & co. Jumbo is a good team to race for all season, with great preparation & performance specialists, but their TdF approach is the worst.
They've had 4 seasons to win the TdF with Roglic & they've squandered each one with zero self-awareness or change of attitude among the sporting directors. After La Planche 2020, their 'solution' was to change bike supplier (ditch Bianchi & go Cervélo) & create another GC rider for the Tour (Vingegaard) since Dumoulin noped out of their work environment, i.e. Vinge who skipped all the usual foundational work (where are his one week race wins? Or podiums in GT's other than the TdF 2021?) & has been fast-tracked into leadership out of sheer desperation. It's also a huge middle finger flipped to Roglic with a giant 'pancarte' saying 'we don't trust you anymore', i.e. from a hierarchy just waiting to pounce on any sign of weakness to demote him & turn him into a super domestique (a super version of Kruijswijk, basically).
Well, is it any surprise everything goes to *** in a sport where mental fortitude is so important? Jumbo do absolutely nothing to defend Roglic (where's the protest against ASO for the bullsh*t bale of hay incident?).
Agreed. I am also just in awe of Rog right now. Sitting down, popping your shoulder back in, and getting back in and racing, that is serious bad-a$$ racing work. Wish he didn't crash so much. Today he just about bit it again and I'm a bit worried he's a bit too aggressive sometimes.
Ummm, no. Their tactics are not great, and today Wout and team definitely earned knucklehead points. But Movistar is just another level or two of just dumb. I mean like not just bad tactics, but no tactics or strategy, no real plan. But Jumbo certainly lack focus and contingency planning in a refined way.
I see what you mean but within context of this TdF (& I don't really know what happened with Schachmann in stage 6 which prompted his outburst, even though he should probably STFU & mind his own business), we're seeing Roglic come through a really strange year & sort of pivotal moment in his career. There was an article post-Paris-Nice in which Roglic spoke about constantly learning & in that case, being less aggressive, less focused on chasing wins at all costs (like going against nature of sorts when Laporte was gifted the win).
Well, considering where all that has led him (loss of TdF leadership in his team & a complete disaster after his own bosses pulled his teammates back from him on Wednesday), I wouldn't be surprised if Roglic 1.01 returns, i.e. the super aggressive Rogla who'll never get a Christmas card from Gino Mäder (the version of Roglic which Chris Horner himself dislikes so much).
He's out of time & has nothing to lose. Be it in this TdF (unlikely, due to the injury & overall depressing state of his GC hopes) or more likely in his future races. No more Mr. nice guy who attempts to appease the gods of cycling. Just straight-up aggressive Roglarism (new word) on a bike.
Why not.
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