Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

[acm]

I wouldn’t call him a helper in MSR, there where he was needed the most he want to be seen.

A case could be made for WC 2020, but since they ride for different countries he can always hide behind that.

omg

 

[RedheadDane]

That's the big question mark for me, i.e. Rog & Vingegaard aren't the same rider profiles, i.e. both have strengths & weaknesses which the team strategy can either favor or literally work against.

Hopefully, Jumbo will use the tactic that best enables them to win the GC, no matter by whom. If Kuss turns out to - somehow - be the best rider, they should ride for him.

 

[Bolder]

As a Roglič fan, the only thing that actually concerns me are the tactics from the team car, not Vingegaard per se (I mean if Vinge is stronger he wins, so it's a moot point anyway). No, my 'fear' is Grischa will get the team to sit up & not chase the break on the rampas inhumanas or unipuerto stages (stage 6 for example), i.e. stages which should favor Rog, then on the Tourmalet stage he gets Jumbo to drill an insane pace full gas which cooks Rog like Pog on the Joux Plane stage in the TdF & sets up Vingegaard perfectly.

That's the big question mark for me, i.e. Rog & Vingegaard aren't the same rider profiles, i.e. both have strengths & weaknesses which the team strategy can either favor or literally work against.

If I were betting on how the race would normally play out, Vingegaard drops everyone, including Roglic, on the Tourmalet. Question is if Roglic can take some boniseconds before that (or, is allowed to...) and stay close on the ITT (flat, so he should). If JV and PR are both in good shape it would make sense for the team to play to their strengths so they're both high up in GC, meaning Roglic can grab uphill sprints and Vingegaard can just ride away from everybody...

 

[Netserk]

If Rogla is in red, Vingegaard doesn't attack.

 

[Berniece]

He helped on Poggio where he could. If he was better, he could have done more. But he wasn't.

Lol, sure. He only won Paris-Nice a couple of days before, but he wasn't good enough. Everyone knows Roglic is only able to go deep for himself. This has always been the case. I've never seen him go so deep he needed to lie down after the race, or came to a standstill during the race for someone else while he was himself in decent form.

I also don't understand why that's such a bad thing to say... He's just selfish, so what?

 

[Red Rick]

Lol, sure. He only won Paris-Nice a couple of days before, but he wasn't good enough. Everyone knows Roglic is only able to go deep for himself. This has always been the case. I've never seen him go so deep he needed to lie down after the race, or came to a standstill during the race for someone else while he was himself in decent form.

I also don't understand why that's such a bad thing to say... He's just selfish, so what?

Selfish man worked for team leader whilst having broken back.

Also buried himself for Vingegaard in Itzulia last year.

 

[Netserk]

Lol, sure. He only won Paris-Nice a couple of days before, but he wasn't good enough. Everyone knows Roglic is only able to go deep for himself. This has always been the case. I've never seen him go so deep he needed to lie down after the race, or came to a standstill during the race for someone else while he was himself in decent form.

I also don't understand why that's such a bad thing to say... He's just selfish, so what?

So how much better could he have done in that Sanremo edition if he rode for himself in your opinion?

 

[Berniece]

Clowning around aren't you. No one else wants to play with you?

Not really, I truly believe he's extremely selfish and is only able to go deep for himself. I've heard multiple people say this around me, might be they are Belgian with a hard on for WVA, but still. I think I've even heard Jose De Cauwer (Belgian commentator) say that once.

So how much better could he have done in that Sanremo edition if he rode for himself in your opinion?

Let's say he was riding for WVA in that edition, then I still believe that he wasn't going all out for him. When Pogacar went he was in the wheel of WVA, he chooses to drop that wheel and when Kragh Andersen goes he's able to follow the pack. Mohoric won that edition because the only ones chasing where WVA and MVDP. Knowing Roglic won Paris Nice that year a couple of days before, and seeing which riders finished in the top 10, Roglic should always be part of that.

 

[bNator]

I wouldn’t call him a helper in MSR, there where he was needed the most he want to be seen.

A case could be made for WC 2020, but since they ride for different countries he can always hide behind that.

So when he helps, it's self promotion if I understand correctly? He should help and remain invisible while doing so? How dares he work for someone and be noticed while doing so?! He really is a self serving a*hole among the selfless bunch that are pro cyclists...

As far as WC 2020 is concerned. Yeah, different countries, that little detail I bet Slovenian team would be happy to realise they've been working all day for Roglič so that Roglič was able to help his teammate thus self-promoting himself within his team...

Fact is, you have zero basis for your claims. You can believe anything you want - however, once you share those beliefs on public forum, some people might expect some kind of evidence for your claims...

 

[Netserk]

So because he couldn't ride for himself, he chose to not crest the top of Poggio with Turgis, Matthews and Mohorič despite being able to do so after his previous efforts?

I find that far-fetched. I think he, as a helper, emptied his tank while he could be of use, and after that he could no longer ride the full ascent as fast as possible.

 

[svit]

Not really, I truly believe he's extremely selfish and is only able to go deep for himself. I've heard multiple people say this around me, might be they are Belgian with a hard on for WVA, but still. I think I've even heard Jose De Cauwer (Belgian commentator) say that once.


Let's say he was riding for WVA in that edition, then I still believe that he wasn't going all out for him. When Pogacar went he was in the wheel of WVA, he chooses to drop that wheel and when Kragh Andersen goes he's able to follow the pack. Mohoric won that edition because the only ones chasing where WVA and MVDP. Knowing Roglic won Paris Nice that year a couple of days before, and seeing which riders finished in the top 10, Roglic should always be part of that.

 

[Extinction]

He's the best in the team if Vinge is not present from now on. If both are there, both are captains so no need to help unless he gets ordered to or is already behind in time. And if that happens, history shows he always helps beyond want he could/should so what's your point in bashing the guy?
If Vinge is behind or gets told to help, i'm sure he would do the same.

Nobody is bashing anyone, but the reality is Roglic, if Vingegaard is in top shape, is not as good as the Dane. Hence he might have to work for him, whether he likes it or not. This is different from you saying he works for nobody. It remains to be seen what Vingegaard's form will be like in this Vuelta, if it's not at the Tour level he and Rog are team leaders. But if it is, make no mistake, there will only be on leader on Jumbo: Jonas.

 

[Oldermanish]

As a Roglič fan, the only thing that actually concerns me are the tactics from the team car, not Vingegaard per se (I mean if Vinge is stronger he wins, so it's a moot point anyway). No, my 'fear' is Grischa will get the team to sit up & not chase the break on the rampas inhumanas or unipuerto stages (stage 6 for example), i.e. stages which should favor Rog, then on the Tourmalet stage he gets Jumbo to drill an insane pace full gas which cooks Rog like Pog on the Joux Plane stage in the TdF & sets up Vingegaard perfectly.

That's the big question mark for me, i.e. Rog & Vingegaard aren't the same rider profiles, i.e. both have strengths & weaknesses which the team strategy can either favor or literally work against.

Whether they choose those tactics that compromise Roglic or not they would/shouldn't do that early enough to put another contender far in front of Roglic. Sh*t happens and Jonas could be a casualty and they'd be strategically in the weeds. If Jonas drops Remco in a particular stage they have no choice but to pile on. If Primoz is in the backwash that's his fate for the stage. Vingo is their future but I doubt seriously they'd allow gaps that would compromise either. At least, they shouldn't do that.

It's Primoz's turn to prove he's the guy and Jona's has to prove he's recovered completely from the Tour. JV holds most of the cards.

 

[Oldermanish]

Nobody is bashing anyone, but the reality is Roglic, if Vingegaard is in top shape, is not as good as the Dane. Hence he might have to work for him, whether he likes it or not. This is different from you saying he works for nobody. It remains to be seen what Vingegaard's form will be like in this Vuelta, if it's not at the Tour level he and Rog are team leaders. But if it is, make no mistake, there will only be on leader on Jumbo: Jonas.

Agreed. Both are professionals and will follow the JV plan until it's obvious who between them is in the best position to win. JV management would be monumentally stupid to be obvious about their long strategy/support and negate the double threat they have at this point. They'd be stupid to have only one strategic candidate, too.

 

[Gigs_98]

I love that someone who has made a total of 2 posts before this one was reading this thread thinking "I cannot take this any longer, I need to take action". The situation was that dire.

 

[Red Rick]

I love that someone who has made a total of 2 posts before this one was reading this thread thinking "I cannot take this any longer, I need to take action". The situation was that dire.

Shining example of not posting more than posting.

I couldn't possibly imagine

 

[RedheadDane]

Not really, I truly believe he's extremely selfish and is only able to go deep for himself. I've heard multiple people say this around me, might be they are Belgian with a hard on for WVA, but still. I think I've even heard Jose De Cauwer (Belgian commentator) say that once.

Wasn't it De Cauwer who made a big deal out of Vingegaard not helping WVA at the beginning of the Tour this year?

 

[Berniece]

Wasn't it De Cauwer who made a big deal out of Vingegaard not helping WVA at the beginning of the Tour this year?

Yes, and I agreed with him then too

 

[Extinction]

Agreed. Both are professionals and will follow the JV plan until it's obvious who between them is in the best position to win. JV management would be monumentally stupid to be obvious about their long strategy/support and negate the double threat they have at this point. They'd be stupid to have only one strategic candidate, too.

They go in with two leaders, that is clear. The road will decide who among them gets full support, which may be Roglic, although I don't think Vingo would have been brought if Jumbo didn't think he could do a GT double. Was it lack of confidence that Roglic could pull through? I doubt the Slovenian will have been pleased with the ponderous addition to his Vuelta ambitions. I'd like to be a fly on the wall behind Jumbo closed doors.

 

[Divergence]

Nobody is bashing anyone, but the reality is Roglic, if Vingegaard is in top shape, is not as good as the Dane. Hence he might have to work for him, whether he likes it or not. This is different from you saying he works for nobody. It remains to be seen what Vingegaard's form will be like in this Vuelta, if it's not at the Tour level he and Rog are team leaders. But if it is, make no mistake, there will only be on leader on Jumbo: Jonas.

The reality is that Vingo has never beaten Rog, therefore Rog should be 1A in the team. I believe Rog will demonstrate just how great he is during this Vuelta.

 

[KZD]

The reality is that Vingo has never beaten Rog, therefore Rog should be 1A in the team. I believe Rog will demonstrate just how great he is during this Vuelta.

At this point one needs to be a bit delusional to think Roglič is a better Grand Tour rider than Vingegård. The men is the double Tour de France winner and this time he didn't even need Roglič to destroy his Tour rivals including Pogačar.

But sure, Roglic had a better preparation for this Vuelta and that should level things up.

 

[Extinction]

The reality is that Vingo has never beaten Rog, therefore Rog should be 1A in the team. I believe Rog will demonstrate just how great he is during this Vuelta.

Since winning the Tour last year, Vingo has surpassed Rog in ability, class and team pecking order. The Dane reaches heights the Slovenian can't match. It's as simple as that. His "never beaten Rog" conveniently ovelooks the fact that Jonas has won two Tours to Primoz's zero. It's the trump card that explains why Jumbo would bring Vingegaard to the Vuelta to win, despite having Roglic in a good position to do that. You can't bring a rider who recently won the Tour so dominatingly to the Vuelta as a second status captain.

 

[VeloMaster]

You can't bring a rider who recently won the Tour so dominatingly to the Vuelta as a second status captain.

Sure you can, when said rider has gone deep for the Tour, has not trained at altitude since his recent victory, and has faced the heavy PR and related demands -- even low-key Jonas-style -- for a TdF winner.

As a single data point, forum participants in the Vuelta poll have a different take. Let's wait and see what happens on the road.

 

[Hugh Januss]

I love that someone who has made a total of 2 posts before this one was reading this thread thinking "I cannot take this any longer, I need to take action". The situation was that dire.

Maybe he's a man of few words? He's not wrong here.

 

[meat puppet]

As a Roglič fan, the only thing that actually concerns me are the tactics from the team car, not Vingegaard per se (I mean if Vinge is stronger he wins, so it's a moot point anyway). No, my 'fear' is Grischa will get the team to sit up & not chase the break on the rampas inhumanas or unipuerto stages (stage 6 for example), i.e. stages which should favor Rog, then on the Tourmalet stage he gets Jumbo to drill an insane pace full gas which cooks Rog like Pog on the Joux Plane stage in the TdF & sets up Vingegaard perfectly.

That's the big question mark for me, i.e. Rog & Vingegaard aren't the same rider profiles, i.e. both have strengths & weaknesses which the team strategy can either favor or literally work against.

It's as though Jumbo staff is trying to win the race.