Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

[theyoungest]

Rog stopped when Kuss got distanced. Idk if he was told this, or if he did not have the legs. In any case giving Jonas 1:15 before you start riding (twice now) is bad for Rog, for the race and for cycling. We want to see some racing not this tactics on the final 6km climb where is should be full gas.

People aren't easily satisfied. "It's going to be a procession from now until Madrid. Jumbo make racing boring."

Turns out that's not what they're planning to do. Still people are angry.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

You think in terms of everyone keeping the same level every day. You've seen today that's not how it works.

How stupid would they have looked by keeping everything together and then having Kuss get dropped and Roglic beaten in the sprint?

If you are basing it on very unlikely scenarioes then sure. In my opinion there is no way Kuss would've dropped with any significant margin on such a climb.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

• Vingegaard have prioritized Vingegaard

Wow, crazy

 

[Red Rick]

Roglic unlikey to win Tour. In other news, the sun rose in the east this morning

 

[Peyroteo94]

Vingegaard would not win more than 20 seconds today in normal circunstances. Fisher Black lost 40 seconds, c'mon. The peloton was cruising for 3/4 minutes which allowed Vingegaard to gain easily one minute.

 

[theyoungest]

I think the criticism on Jumbo from Roglic fans should actually be directed at UAE. What the hell were they doing? Why is it Fisher-Black who reacts on Vingegaard? Even if Jumbo were actively trying to sabotage Roglic (as his fans think) this is not what they could have possibly thought would happen.

 

[Rackham]

If you are basing it on very unlikely scenarioes then sure. In my opinion there is no way Kuss would've dropped with any significant margin on such a climb.

And if Roglič hadn't attacked (& caused a reaction from Mas & Ayuso), the gap between Vingegaard & the rest would have been even bigger. They were soft pedalling at that point in the group because no one cared about Vinge gaining huge time. Except Rog, evidently.

Today was like Verbier with Contador crucifying Lance, except way more pernicious because the size of the gap was down to Rog & Kuss getting tactically screwed once no one chased their teammate.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Maybe this will teach roglic to anticipate the race and stop waiting for the final 500m to do a mountain sprint.

 

[Netserk]

So Vinge gets a free JV pass to attack Kuss and Roglič who are not allowed to compete? I hate JV and Vinge for doing this.

It's clear that Vingegaard is the strongest rider in the race now. I was quite surprised that Mas managed to reel Rogla back with 1 km to go, so it could have backfired hard if Rogla attacked at the bottom of the climb.

 

[Divergence]

And if Roglič hadn't attacked (& caused a reaction from Mas & Ayuso), the gap between Vingegaard & the rest would have been even bigger. They were soft pedalling at that point in the group because no one cared about Vinge gaining huge time. Except Rog, evidently.

Today was like Verbier with Contador crucifying Lance, except way more pernicious because the size of the gap was down to Rog & Kuss getting tactically screwed once no one chased their teammate.

This other teams have note been relevant since stage 6 basically. Rog should have realized this sooner and instead of this kumbaya everybody should have been made aware that this Vuelta is an intra team battle.

 

[Billie]

But there is no reason at all for any Jumbo rider to attack hard at the bottom of the climb.

 

[Valv.Piti]

But there is no reason at all for any Jumbo rider to attack hard at the bottom of the climb.

Not unless you really wanna win. It also helped that Jonas today by far was the strongest rider in the race, obviously. If Roglic attacks, Mas and Ayuso jumps him because they are literally racing against him instead due to their analysis of Roglic being the weakest link when you factor in strength and GC placement

 

[Divergence]

Not unless you really wanna win. It also helped that Jonas today by far was the strongest rider in the race, obviously. If Roglic attacks, Mas and Ayuso jumps him because they are literally racing against him instead due to their analysis of Roglic being the weakest link when you factor in strength and GC placement

Yeah, right...
Let us just hope Rog has realized what is the time and we see the proper race tomorrow, not this soft peddling sh**.

 

[Rackham]

Roglic unlikey to win Tour. In other news, the sun rose in the east this morning

Yet we'll still hear the same comments like "Rog should stay at Jumbo he'd be stupid to leave!" tralalala.

Today is evidence 'why' this doesn't work. I don't get why it's even a debate, i.e. just look at the names between Vingegaard & the main bunch, i.e. tell me these guys aren't suddenly hotter climbers on this sort of finish than Rog, Kuss & Ayuso? No. The gap (& the fact Vinge was on the brink of taking red) is solely down to the tactical cul-de-sac Rog & Kuss suddenly found themselves in when the bunch decided they didn't care about Vingegaard.

 

[DNP-Old]

1. You cannot build on Kuss as your main target, for he is on his 9th week of grand tour racing this season. He could go from strongest in the race to worst overnight. This could also not happen and he remain consistent, but any long term strategy has you not riding for him. + for Jumbo.
2. In his third year of being a major grand tour rider, Vingegaard has proven time and time again that he can drop anyone anywhere, as long as it is on an incline. Having him being the main option to attack long range, with Roglic sitting in behind to clean up any scraps therefore makes the most sense. Some will say he only got these gaps because the rest didn't care, most will say they did so because they are riding with logic and acknowledge that Vingegaard is the hardest of all three to beat. + for Jumbo again.
3. Roglic ain't build like that. He is not an attacker. His qualities as Purito on steroids have brought him many victories, and this is where it comes to haunt him. You can point your anger towards Jumbo, but in his seven years with Jumbo, he hasn't exactly proved he is capable of doing this. He did it once, on Lagos de Covadonga. A move that he didn't even initiate. In fact, he wasn't even able to prove Jumbo wrong today, as he dropped absolutely nobody except his own leader on a ramp that suited him the most. + for Jumbo once more.

 

[zlev11]

well this sucks

 

[Rackham]

3. Roglic ain't build like that. He is not an attacker. His qualities as Purito on steroids have brought him many victories, and this is where it comes to haunt him. You can point your anger towards Jumbo, but in his seven years with Jumbo, he hasn't exactly proved he is capable of doing this. In fact, he wasn't even able to prove Jumbo wrong today, as he dropped absolutely nobody except his own leader on a ramp that suits him the best. + for Jumbo once more.

With a teammate pacing him, or by directly jumping after Vingegaard, there's no way he loses over a minute today (or is Fisher-Black a better climber than Rog?).

That's the material point. The rest is just people handwaving the tactical aspect to make a boarder point about "muh stronger rider deserves to win". Well, that's a hell of a lot easier when his main rivals for the win (Rog & Kuss) are neutered like they were today.

 

[Divergence]

1. You cannot build on Kuss as your main target, for he is on his 9th week of grand tour racing this season. He could go from strongest in the race to worst overnight. This could also not happen and he remain consistent, but any long term strategy has you not riding for him. + for Jumbo.
2. In his third year of being a major grand tour rider, Vingegaard has proven time and time again that he can drop anyone anywhere, as long as it is on an incline. Having him being the main option to attack long range, with Roglic sitting in behind to clean up any scraps therefore makes the most sense. Some will say he only got these gaps because the rest didn't care, most will say they did so because they are riding with logic and acknowledge that Vingegaard is the hardest of all three to beat. + for Jumbo again.
3. Roglic ain't build like that. He is not an attacker. His qualities as Purito on steroids have brought him many victories, and this is where it comes to haunt him. You can point your anger towards Jumbo, but in his seven years with Jumbo, he hasn't exactly proved he is capable of doing this. In fact, he wasn't even able to prove Jumbo wrong today, as he dropped absolutely nobody except his own leader on a ramp that suits him the best. + for Jumbo once more.

And then he stopped (after Kuss got dropped). Idk if it was his decision or not but that is what happened. He was also concerned at the finish where Kuss is (looking back). Do you really think Rog was on the limit at the finish?
The thing is I just want to see real racing and the real racing is only possible between Jonas and Rog so I say let the race tomorrow without thinking who is dragging who.

 

[Valv.Piti]

1. You cannot build on Kuss as your main target, for he is on his 9th week of grand tour racing this season. He could go from strongest in the race to worst overnight. This could also not happen and he remain consistent, but any long term strategy has you not riding for him. + for Jumbo.
2. In his third year of being a major grand tour rider, Vingegaard has proven time and time again that he can drop anyone anywhere, as long as it is on an incline. Having him being the main option to attack long range, with Roglic sitting in behind to clean up any scraps therefore makes the most sense. Some will say he only got these gaps because the rest didn't care, most will say they did so because they are riding with logic and acknowledge that Vingegaard is the hardest of all three to beat. + for Jumbo again.
3. Roglic ain't build like that. He is not an attacker. His qualities as Purito on steroids have brought him many victories, and this is where it comes to haunt him. You can point your anger towards Jumbo, but in his seven years with Jumbo, he hasn't exactly proved he is capable of doing this. He did it once, on Lagos de Covadonga. A move that he didn't even initiate. In fact, he wasn't even able to prove Jumbo wrong today, as he dropped absolutely nobody except his own leader on a ramp that suited him the most. + for Jumbo once more.

Great analysis.

 

[DNP-Old]

And then he stopped (after Kuss got dropped). Idk if it was his decision or not but that is what happened. He was also concerned at the finish where Kuss is (looking back). Do you really think Rog was on the limit at the finish?
The thing is I just want to see real racing and the real racing is only possible between Jonas and Rog so I say let the race tomorrow without thinking who is dragging who.

No, I do not think so, just like I think Roglic wasn't putting Mas and Ayuso into trouble and they returned relatively comfortably.

 

[Divergence]

No, I do not think so, just like I think Roglic wasn't putting Mas and Ayuso into trouble and they returned relatively comfortably.

They started dropping Kuss so Rog eased off. Had he continued setting a hard pace to the top maybe he would have distanced them more. The thing is we do not know since what is going on can hardly be called a race at this point.

 

[DNP-Old]

They started dropping Kuss so Rog eased off. Had he continued setting a hard pace to the top maybe he would have distanced them more. The thing is we do not know since what is going on can hardly be called a race at this point.

This is absolutely not true, lmao. Roglic was still pushing when Mas and Ayuso had already returned to his wheel.

 

[Valv.Piti]

They started dropping Kuss so Rog eased off. Had he continued setting a hard pace to the top maybe he would have distanced them more. The thing is we do not know since what is going on can hardly be called a race at this point.

You assume stuff for fun. What we saw was Roglic trying to gap them, but couldn't and still continued. No way in hell he's distancing anyone after he couldn't after that initial acceleration.

Are we watching the same race?

 

[Divergence]

This is absolutely not true, lmao. Roglic was still pushing when Mas and Ayuso had already returned to his wheel.

Yes, we had that camera shot for about 3-4s, but It is obvious he stopped pulling hard even before they came to him. Also after the camera was gone Mas and Ayuso probably took over at the from and Kuss was able to get back as evidenced by the finish

 

[Divergence]

You assume stuff for fun. What we saw was Roglic trying to gap them, but couldn't and still continued. No way in hell he's distancing anyone after he couldn't after that initial acceleration.

Are we watching the same race?

Until I see an exausted Rog at the finish I cannot agree that he was going full.