Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

[Gargamel35]

Of course, the gap got a lot bigger than it needed to be due to some very weird tactics, but Rog not being able to do much on Tourmalet, sitting in the wheels and struggling tells me he wasn't great at all. Ayuso and Mas basically paced the whole second part of the climb.

Likewise, not being able to drop them today tells me that he ain't the Roglic of old. He would never have been closed down after the initial gap on such a climb. You know better than anyone than exactly this kind of climb is his bread and butter.

What could he do on Tourmalet if he was allowed to move only in last km? Jonas got green light to attack first. Then Kuss got green light. Only then Rog was allowed to go in the last km. And despite that, he cought Kuss on the finish line and halfed the lead of Jonas. All that in last km when he was only allowed to move.

Today he thought they are racing for him but Jonas decided to go for his glory early and again Kuss and Rog had to wait. Because no one else wanted to chase Jonas, he got massive advantage. When Rog was allowed to move, he tried, saw all idiots from other teams are marking him 100% and that Kuss was dropped. So he stopped trying because he would drop Kuss and brought others closer to Jonas.

What else could he do if he was not allowed anything? Jonas gets a free card for anything and because no one is marking him, it's easy to ride away. *** move against both JV riders.

 

[SHAD0W93]

At the end of the day, Jumbo can attack with any of there three riders and the contenders will sit up because they don't care who wins from Jumbo because it will not affect their GC place.

Mas and Ayuso aren’t going to let Roglic go if they think he’s the weakest and closest of the three

 

[Gargamel35]

Tommorow Rog will be used as bait. He'll have to attack with everyone on his wheel, then Jonas will counter attack and ride away. My only hope is Kuss is allowed to race and he follows Jonas. But i'm sure JV will find a way to rip red jersey of him and give it to mr. "I'm only winning for others".

 

[CyclistAbi]

Meh. Nothing a good night sleep can't resolve. Situation for Rogla is still the same. He needs a good minute and a half on the race leader. What changed is now he can go for it without bad feeling being involved. Will it be tomorrow? Likely yes. But then again the race is still long and so no need to act silly. That is if the situation won't allow for it. What is almost a must tomorrow is to respond to GC attacks by any of the TOP 5 riders. If any of them jumps Rogla must follow. If there will be a chance to take more than that tomorrow. Then go for it.

 

[Valanga]

Kuss confirmed the plan was to ride for Roglič today but when they were on the last hill, Jonas radioed that he will attack and did so. Showing some fine sportsmanship towards his best domestique in red jersey and a mentor (Rog). Thanks, but no thanks. No class. No nothing.

That is not what Kuss said, that's how you spin it. What Kuss actually said:

Just before the final part of the climb, Jonas asked on the radio if he could attack and it was a really good moment to go. Everybody was looking at each other behind and he also rode a super-fast climb, so he was unstoppable.

 

[Gargamel35]

That is not what Kuss said, that's how you spin it. What Kuss actually said:

Just before the final part of the climb, Jonas asked on the radio if he could attack and it was a really good moment to go. Everybody was looking at each other behind and he also rode a super-fast climb, so he was unstoppable.

Yeah, check the Spainish interview. He wasn't asking, he was telling. Eather way he knew what was the plan and he pissed on it for his own gains. Bosses don't give a ***, they would love to see Jonas win over Kuss anyway.

 

[CyclistAbi]

It's not the first time JV did Rogla a solid. Rogla knows how to deal with it. We believe in you Primož and we know you will manage.

 

[Oldermanish]

Mas and Ayuso aren’t going to let Roglic go if they think he’s the weakest and closest of the three

Wouldn't they do the exact opposite? Attack, drop Kuss and try to put time into Jonas in the process? Can't imagine that they were thinking "let's spot Jonas one minute and see if Roglic goes....then we'll jump and put 5 seconds into him and Kuss will lose time". It's hard to figure what they were thinking, tbh.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Regardless of the outcome i feel that here JV has push the limit too far. Team inability to select and enforce the leader, saying one thing and doing another ... all that now turned into this ugly fight in between Rogla, Jonas and Kuss. You don't do that to your champions. They deserve more respect than that.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Wouldn't they do the exact opposite? Attack, drop Kuss and try to put time into Jonas in the process? Can't imagine that they were thinking "let's spot Jonas one minute and see if Roglic goes....then we'll jump and put 5 seconds into him and Kuss will lose time". It's hard to figure what they were thinking, tbh.

Not if they think they will blow up now or down the road trying to follow Vinge because he’s stronger then them like with Pog. Rolgic is closer, isn’t as attacking, and it allows them to get ahead before the sprint stomp. Kuss is far ahead and would need a blow up. Like has been said, they could think Roglic is trending down while Vinge has been trending up meaning Roglic is the easier of the three to jump past due to the time difference.

 

[Andy schleck]

How do you know he's the strongest if both teamates are not allowed to race? They need to sit tight while Jonas attacks and gets easy time because no one else wants to follow and Kuss/Rog aren't allowed to. It's a *** move against your best domestique and second star of a team. Sammen winnen.... No, Jonas winnen, everyone else dom away.

Stop being a fanboy! Oh my god! Jonas vingegaard is the best grand tour rider in the world, and he is the best rider at this moment in the vuelta. Kuss was dropped in the end today, roglic couldn't even drop Mas and ayuso!

 

[saunaking]

Regardless of the outcome i feel that here JV has push the limit too far. Team inability to select and enforce the leader, saying one thing and doing another ... all that now turned into this ugly fight in between Rogla, Jonas and Kuss. You don't do that to your champions. They deserve more respect than that.

Jonas was always the leader
Why in the world do you think he came to Spain?

 

[CyclistAbi]

@saunaking

If that is the case why isn't he leading the race and why aren't Rogla and Kuss working for him? And by the way did Kuss get the memo? Or why was he bluffing then? With all the talk on how they won't race against each other?

Anyway. It is what it is. Dog eat dog. Shameful if you ask me. But lets then restore the hierarchy on the road again. Lets see who the leader of the pack really is.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

I hate to say it, fellow Roglic fans, but between the Tour 2023, the Tourmalet stage, today’s stage, and the revelation that Vingegaard had GI issues in week 1, in addition to having had some decisions hurt his cause, Roglic is also dealing with superior GC rider to anyone since Contador. Vingegaard is just a better, more spectacular climber than Roglic. I hope to be proven wrong tomorrow, but there is also no shame in that. Not sure even prime Contador, Froome, Lance could beat him in a GT.

 

[svit]

Theory about Roglic being the weakest link of the three and that Mass and Ayuso are only marking him, is stupid IMO. Roglič have big enough lead over all the others, so they have better chance to mark Vingegard if they want to be on the podium.

Today's stage will be nothing burger. Remco will launch long range attack, but JV boys will arrive together at the finish line. If for some reason Vinge will have some problems they will wait for him because JV wants him to win the Vuelta, so they can go for tripletto (tour, vuelta, giro) next year.

Nothing wrong with the plan, but they should say so. Don't employ corporate bull**** about "team is important"...

 

[Oldermanish]

@saunaking

If that is the case why isn't he leading the race and why aren't Rogla and Kuss working for him? And by the way did Kuss get the memo? Or why was he bluffing then? With all the talk on how they won't race against each other?

Anyway. It is what it is. Dog eat dog. Shameful if you ask me. But lets then restore the hierarchy on the road again. Lets see who the leader of the pack really is.

The only crime in racing when you *** a teammate is losing. So far Vindegaard hasn't done much except follow a plan that puts him in a better position should the other two fold. Then he has to deliver.
As far as Roglic...I'd wait to pass any judgement until the whole race is done since that is how we find out the winner. He was dead screwed today by Jonas' move and having to protect Kuss. At least he did that and would have a reason to seek other teams should it all end up badly.

 

[Rackham]

I hate to say it, fellow Roglic fans, but between the Tour 2023, the Tourmalet stage, today’s stage, and the revelation that Vingegaard had GI issues in week 1, in addition to having had some decisions hurt his call, Roglic is also dealing with superior GC rider to anyone since Contador. Vingegaard is just a better, more spectacular climber than Roglic. I hope to be proven wrong tomorrow, but there is also no shame in that. Not sure even prime Contador, Froome, Lance could beat him in a GT.

If this is all true, then he doesn't need to literally ambush his teammates like he did yesterday.

I'd also have a look at Javalambre again on stage 6 where based on appearances, Rog took Vingegaard to the line & didn't attack him. So what are the rules here? Samen winnen = Jonas Vingegaard can take time whenever he wants (by even tossing his teammates into a sh*t tactical situation which screws them over) whilst the others have to be team players?

I'm not being hyperbolic here either, i.e. Vingegaard has clearly been granted full permission to attack his teammates & inconvenience them on the road as he sees fit.

If he's truly the strongest, just drops the watts in the final km's of the Angliru like a big grown up boy when it's every man for himself & be done with it.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

@Rackham I agree that decisions have favored Vingegaard, but I imagine they do so because they believe Vingegaard gives them a better chance at victory. The best thing Roglic can do is attack hard and win with a gap, showing the “world (he is) the strongest. Otherwise, the team will look at results and see that Vingegaard has won the Tour twice, Roglic zero, and Vingegaard has dropped massive solo watt bombs, demolishing the competition multiple times, and Roglic has not. He has matched incredible performances, but he has not done them off the front that I am aware of. Roglic has won with consistency, intelligence, grit, the ability to follow and punch, but he has generally not imposed his will and left zero doubt like Vingegaard has multiple times. That does not mean I would not rather Roglic win in a landslide.

However, the way this Vuelta has played out, and the way the previous 3 Tours have played out, there has been no fair way to assess Roglic’s strength. I hope tactics do not get in the way tomorrow.

 

[Berniece]

@Rackham I agree that decisions have favored Vingegaard, but I imagine they do so because they believe Vingegaard gives them a better chance at victory. The best thing Roglic can do is attack hard and win with a gap, showing the “world (he is) the strongest. Otherwise, the team will look at results and see that Vingegaard has won the Tour twice, Roglic zero, and Vingegaard has dropped massive solo watt bombs, demolishing the competition multiple times, and Roglic has not. He has matched incredible performances, but he has not done them off the front that I am aware of. Roglic has won with consistency, intelligence, grit, the ability to follow and punch, but he has generally not imposed his will and left zero doubt like Vingegaard has multiple times. That does not mean I would not rather Roglic win in a landslide.

However, the way this Vuelta has played out, and the way the previous 3 Tours have played out, there has been no fair way to assess Roglic’s strength. I hope tactics do not get in the way tomorrow.

I can tell you now, Roglic is nowhere near the level of Vingegaard. Did you see the Giro? Or even this Vuelta? Roglic is currently 3-5th best GC rider in the world, but the top 2 is far ahead of him.

Without Vingegaard he would have won this Vuelta though. If he still wants to go for it, try to mark Vingegaard and take that time back in stage 20. He’s better at such stages than Vingegaard anyway.

 

[IndianCyclist]

Roglic is not as strong since he was countered by Mas and Ayuso. But i donot think he cares that much about 2nd or 3rd considering he already has 4 GTS to his name

 

[CyclistAbi]

We heard this before. Just about at any stage race Rogla did this year. And the outcome was rather clear about that. We'll see in Madrid, who Tour 2024 leader is at JV.

 

[theyoungest]

If he's truly the strongest, just drops the watts in the final km's of the Angliru like a big grown up boy when it's every man for himself & be done with it.

If he does so, you'll be angry anyway. The guy just can't do anything right in your eyes.

Don't worry, you're not the only one. He's just quite impopular. Even Roglic' wife now apparently joined the choir of haters

 

[CyclistAbi]

JV is really doing everything, to prepare Rogla for Tour 2024. I mean forcing Rogla in position to take the leaders jersey away from Sepp and then at dinner to sing happy birthday. Bastards.

 

[Rackham]

If he does so, you'll be angry anyway. The guy just can't do anything right in your eyes.

Don't worry, you're not the only one. He's just quite impopular. Even Roglic' wife now apparently joined the choir of haters

No time for hate.

Angliru beckons. It's another day with another 'story', i.e. things move very fast in GT racing. Tbh I've been dreading this day for quite a while because things didn't go so well for Roglič here last time (in 2020). That's also why yesterday was such a sh*t way to lose a minute.

 

[DoYouEvenRideBruh]

I'm afraid this won't be a good day for Rogla. He can almost surely stick with the Spaniards, but as soon as Vinge is allowed up the road it's game over for the overall (unless some serious shenanigans happen in stage 20).