Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

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Berniece

Berniece

Sep 12, 2022
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Gargamel35 said:
It was expected Remco would beat Roglič in TT. It was even a surprise by how little Remco managed to beat him. Later in mountains Remco would drop anyway. So Roglič was totally fine. After crash, he looked bad and he could lose a lot more time if others would attack him more and if there wouldn't be Kuss, to make a save. He barely managed to fight back until last TT where he made history.
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First TT Remco completely destroyed Roglic. He took 43s in 20km's. Second TT was indeed a surprise, because he had COVID. Not sure why Remco would drop in the mountains anyway. Vuelta 2022 apparently didn't happen.
 
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Froome

Froome

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Gargamel35 said:
It was expected Remco would beat Roglič in TT. It was even a surprise by how little Remco managed to beat him. Later in mountains Remco would drop anyway. So Roglič was totally fine. After crash, he looked bad and he could lose a lot more time if others would attack him more and if there wouldn't be Kuss, to make a save. He barely managed to fight back until last TT where he made history.
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It was expected and normal Remco beat roglic in two the TT, and because of that, roglic wasn't in control.

We don't know if Remco would get dropped by Roglic anyway, but it's not that important these point. Roglic won and that's it.
 
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Elos Anjos

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Froome said:
He was in control after Remco DNF. Even with covid, Remco beat him in the two TTs, the last one with covid. Roglic crashed on stage 11, he wasn't in control until Remco DNF.
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Again, you don't have access to Roglic's mind. Neither do I. So this control talk is just mumbo jumbo propeled by hindsight.

What we know is that Roglic was looking forward to not loose much time after two TTs. That was his strategy until the mountains arrived.
 
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Elos Anjos

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Berniece said:
That's why he would drop anyway? By default? By the guy that wasn't able to drop Thomas, and was even dropped by Almeida? Ok sure... Don't know what delusional world you are living in, but if that's what you believe, sure.
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Nothing is written in stone. But it would very much likely be so that Remco would drop. After Vuelta 2023 where Remco faced opponents with a GT in their legs and dropped where least expected, the burden of proof for stating that Remco can handle multiple or high mountain stages is on Remco or his fans side. Not the other way around. An aged Thomas, a bruised Roglic and Almeida could manage Giro and Vuelta 2023 mountains.

By the way, Ayuso was also dropped by Almeida, so I don't quite understand what you're stating.
 
Froome

Froome

Jan 29, 2021
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VayaVayaVaya said:
I agree Roglic does not ride like Vingegaard. How do you factor in something like Angliru, where he attacked from a few kms out? He didn’t drop Vingegaard, but he left everyone else behind.
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He attacked a bit from far on Javalambre and Angliru, but he is not comfortable with that, and we can see why, by his results on high mountains finishes.

Mont bondone he was dropped.

He lost on la loze and gamoniteru to miguel angel lopez.

He won on angliru but he couldn't drop Vingegaard and finished just 19 s in front of landa.

On jalavambre he couldn't drop Vingegaard and finished just 7 s in front if ayuso.

Col de turini, he won but he finished with almeida and the "climbing monster perfomance" daniel martinez.

La colmiane, he just finished 5 s in front of the all mighty schachmann.


Lagos de covadonga stage was his best dominant perfomance.

He is not dominant in the high mountains, it's difficult for him to drop everybody and gain a lot of time to his opponents. He can't do what pogacar and vingegaard can do in terms of pure power, because he doesn't have it. Visma is not stupid, they didn’t let go the wrong horse, they have acess to all the data, and the results in the Tour speak for it.

He is clearly more comfortable on attacking in the last km, using is explosiveness to make the difference, because he is superior to everybody on that regard.
 
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Elos Anjos

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Froome said:
He is not dominant in the high mountains, it's difficult for him to drop everybody and gain a lot of time to his opponents. He can't do what pogacar and vingegaard can do in terms of pure power, because he doesn't have it. Visma is not stupid, they didn’t let go the wrong horse, they have acess to all the data, and the results in the Tour speak for it.

He is clearly more comfortable on attacking in the last km, using is explosiveness to make the difference, because he is superior to everybody on that regard.
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1) having all the data is a fallacy; no one has "all the data". No team knows everything about their riders. Mostly because riders adapt and data is not just in the performance of muscles and cardio, but in the overall psychological and emotional surroundings. You and others often make that mistake of glorifying data.

Chances are that Jumbo protected Vingo because he won the Tour in 2022. Which was actually one where Roglic had to quit due to the infamous hay bale. Roglic just had to quit Jumbo if he wanted to pursuit his ambitions...chances are that Jumbo also made a bet based on age and wins, but a bet.

2) so how can you "blame" or "unlike" a rider for his attacking style if he is just maximizing his chances to win? You can only praise choices and personality, not one's natural capabilities.
 
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CyclistAbi

May 29, 2019
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Froome said:
You said vingegaard couldn't crack kuss, that doesn't even make sense.
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What was he trying to do then? Attacking. Where there no Landa, Kuss would not win the overall. Note that i don't blame Jonas for attacking, that is why he was there for, he came very close, 8s down, but it just wasn't enough in the end. Kuss needed to raise his voice, for that to stop. I support that too.

Anyway, acting like Jonas didn't take a swing at Sepp. That is like saying Giro 2023 was not majestic.
 
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Lequack

Lequack

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Froome

Froome

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CyclistAbi said:
What was he trying to do then? Attacking. Where there no Landa, Kuss would not win the overall. Note that i don't blame Jonas for attacking, that is why he was there for, he came very close, 8s down, but it just wasn't enough in the end. Kuss needed to raise his voice, for that to stop. I support that too.

Anyway, acting like Jonas didn't take a swing at Sepp. That is like saying Giro 2023 was not majestic.
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Roglic was more worried doing that in the last 2 km of the top of angliru.

Fortunately for Kuss, Landa helped him reducing the gap to Roglic in the last climbing km of angliru. Roglic was losing gas and Landa with Kuss in his wheel, recovered about 10 seconds in the last climbing Km of angliru.
 
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CyclistAbi

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Froome said:
Roglic was more worried doing that in the last 2 km of the top of angliru.

Fortunately for Kuss, Landa helped him reducing the gap to Roglic in the last climbing km of angliru. Roglic was losing gas and Landa with Kuss in his wheel, recovered about 10 seconds in the last climbing Km of angliru.
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I see, then Rogla was trying to crack Sepp, by attacking, Jonas was only trying to help Sepp. Especially considering Rogla was a minute down, overall, compared to Jonas.
 
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SHAD0W93

SHAD0W93

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How quick are we to forget crashes and sickness only affect Roglic not others.


CyclistAbi said:
I see, then Rogla was trying to crack Sepp, by attacking, Jonas was only trying to help Sepp. Especially considering Rogla was a minute down, overall, compared to Jonas.
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All Vingegaard did was ride on the wheels of Kuss who brought him back to Roglic and then Roglic’s. Just like stage 6 when I think it was Mas that brought him back. Roglic wanted to prove a point and he did, but also proved he didn’t care what happens to Kuss.
 
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theyoungest

Jan 11, 2010
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Berniece said:
That's why he would drop anyway? By default? By the guy that wasn't able to drop Thomas, and was even dropped by Almeida? Ok sure... Don't know what delusional world you are living in, but if that's what you believe, sure.
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Look, Roglic wasn't at his best in the Giro, probably due to the crash that caused everyone involved in it to DNF except Roglic. But at least he finished the race. He also put everything on the final time trial, to do a kind of anti-Planche des Belles Filles and he succeeded. There is no reason at all to assume that Evenepoel could have done better in these circumstances.

No disrespect to Remco, but he still has to prove that his Vuelta win wasn't a fluke. He can win lots of races but is he a real proper GT rider, for the real epic multi mountain stages? That still remains to be seen. There's no shame in it if he's not, you can't do everything.
 
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CyclistAbi

May 29, 2019
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SHAD0W93 said:
All Vingegaard did was ride on the wheels of Kuss who brought him back to Roglic and then Roglic’s.
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Understandable, at some point of the race he was more then two minutes down on Sepp, and all he did is he just rode after. Note that i don't blame Jonas for that. It's just silly some want to claim he didn't want to win overall. And shredded that good two minutes by some mistake.

Roglic wanted to prove a point and he did, but also proved he didn’t care what happens to Kuss.
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I don't feel Rogla wanted to prove some point. He was open about it and that is he is here to win. On stage 17 i feel that Rogla was OK with winning on Angliru too. If you are a GC rider or stage hunter, you want Angliru in your palmares.

Note that even Sepp was after winning stage 17, he said it himself. Rogla and Jonas trying to crack him in my opinion did him some good. That is we now can't say Sepp didn't earn it, he did.
 
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CyclistAbi

May 29, 2019
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theyoungest said:
Look, Roglic wasn't at his best in the Giro, probably due to the crash that caused everyone involved in it to DNF except Roglic. But at least he finished the race. He also put everything on the final time trial, to do a kind of anti-Planche des Belles Filles and he succeeded. There is no reason at all to assume that Evenepoel could have done better in these circumstances.

No disrespect to Remco, but he still has to prove that his Vuelta win wasn't a fluke. He can win lots of races but is he a real proper GT rider, for the real epic multi mountain stages? That still remains to be seen. There's no shame in it if he's not, you can't do everything.
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Rogla was magnificent at Giro 2023.
 
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