Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

[scribers]

Who needs balls when you can wheel suck onto the balls of aggressive riders?

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

the team was AWFUL today but he rode smart. maybe his only way to win this race is if the other 3 tire each other out.

I thought Ayuso and Vingegaard did quite well for him today actually

 

[Oldermanish]

From a secret source I know that after today's stage @CyclistAbi bet his house on Rogla's victory.

...that's a secret?

 

[Oldermanish]

Who needs balls when you can wheel suck onto the balls of aggressive riders?

Jonas isn't at his best so cut him some slack. He's doing everything he can.

 

[scribers]

Jonas isn't at his best so cut him some slack. He's doing everything he can.

I agree. That was a little rough on my part. My apologies

 

[scribers]

Ps. I thought I was in the Ramco thread

 

[Oldermanish]

The Rest Day will allow all of the theorists and pretenders like us to project our favorites into strategies, rivalries....crashes. Here it goes:
Pogacar is certainly feeling free to show his aggression; even where it doesn't net him a gain. Not sure where that takes him in week 3 and how others might affect the outcome. He has a team for the Title

Remco is also willing to show his strengths and deal with his lesser attributes. He's and unknown into week 3 and the Wild Card for strategic alliances in gaining time, IMO.

Jonas has worked hard to play the remora to Pogacar. His team is working for him but the number of new faces and broken parts don't bode well for a long Tour. He and the team may be hiding the surprise that he "wasn't as sick as I made out...." (Doc Holiday after dispatching Johnny Ringo). I kinda doubt the team is doing anything less than they're capable which is no match for UAE.

Roglic is either hanging on for his life or playing a very quiet game. His team is not helping that much what with either being minutes behind or in a ditch at every crucial point. At least he hasn't shunted several times and wasted more energy trying to keep a happy face for the press. He may be very capable, but his team cohesion is absent.

 

[Remy55]

The Team yesterday made one big mistake and that was the positioning before sector 2.

After that everyone (Sobreo, Jungels, Denz, Vlasov and Hindley) did an unbelievable job for Roglic in closing gaps and positioning him.

 

[dazaau]

While nerve wracking to watch, as a Roglic fan stage 9 went as well as anyone could have possibly hoped for with the exception of poor Vlasov, which may come at a cost in the high mountains.

If someone offered Roglic fans same time and no crash for Roglic on stage 9 the vote to accept it would be swift and unanimous.

 

[Rackham]

While nerve wracking to watch, as a Roglic fan stage 9 went as well as anyone could have possibly hoped for with the exception of poor Vlasov, which may come at a cost in the high mountains.

If someone offered Roglic fans same time and no crash for Roglic on stage 9 the vote to accept it would be swift and unanimous.

Well I hated stage 9 & I saw it as nothing but a clown show designed to attract 'new fans' to the sport & casuals on a Sunday afternoon who wanted to witness some carnage & despair.

Of course the cameras were focused on the imminent doom Rogla seemed to face on every gravel section but most other lightweight climbers had the exact same difficulties. No one is talking about Carlos Rodriguez because he also suffered. Simon Yates meanwhile lost ten minutes.

The profile itself was way worse than I imagined as well, i.e. it was a combination of Strade & Roubaix in one sh*tty package. Classics specialists & Pog had fun, whereas the rest... nobody trains for that. They're road cycling pros, not jesters performing in a circus whilst fans hoop and holler as they all suffer in deep gravel sections. Special mention goes to the borked gravel ratings systems with one star sections featuring gravel which a rider could easily get stuck in (which is what happened to Evenepoel). Imagine if it had been raining...

Next time they should jump the shark entirely & put in some sort of ironman triathlon stage just for sh*ts & giggles. People can always defend that with a 'survival of the fittest' justification as well.

 

[Gargamel35]

Well I hated stage 9 & I saw it as nothing but a clown show designed to attract 'new fans' to the sport & casuals on a Sunday afternoon who wanted to witness some carnage & despair.

Of course the cameras were focused on the imminent doom Rogla seemed to face on every gravel section but most other lightweight climbers had the exact same difficulties. No one is talking about Carlos Rodriguez because he also suffered. Simon Yates meanwhile lost ten minutes.

The profile itself was way worse than I imagined as well, i.e. it was a combination of Strade & Roubaix in one sh*tty package. Classics specialists & Pog had fun, whereas the rest... nobody trains for that. They're road cycling pros, not jesters performing in a circus whilst fans hoop and holler as they all suffer in deep gravel sections. Special mention goes to the borked gravel ratings systems with one star sections featuring gravel which a rider could easily get stuck in (which is what happened to Evenepoel). Imagine if it had been raining...

Next time they should jump the shark entirely & put in some sort of ironman triathlon stage just for sh*ts & giggles. People can always defend that with a 'survival of the fittest' justification as well.

I think some swimming and ski jumping should be added to the mix. They already have cycling, cyclokross and running (with bike on their back).

 

[Rackham]

I think some swimming and ski jumping should be added to the mix. They already have cycling, cyclokross and running (with bike on their back).

Maybe some biathlon as well, aka cross-country skiing with guns. Let's just hope Evenepoel doesn't shoot Vingegaard when he gets p*ssed off.

 

[acm]

Maybe some biathlon as well, aka cross-country skiing with guns. Let's just hope Evenepoel doesn't shoot Vingegaard when he gets p*ssed off.

Omg hahaha

 

[Netserk]

Well I hated stage 9 & I saw it as nothing but a clown show designed to attract 'new fans' to the sport & casuals on a Sunday afternoon who wanted to witness some carnage & despair.

Of course the cameras were focused on the imminent doom Rogla seemed to face on every gravel section but most other lightweight climbers had the exact same difficulties. No one is talking about Carlos Rodriguez because he also suffered. Simon Yates meanwhile lost ten minutes.

The profile itself was way worse than I imagined as well, i.e. it was a combination of Strade & Roubaix in one sh*tty package. Classics specialists & Pog had fun, whereas the rest... nobody trains for that. They're road cycling pros, not jesters performing in a circus whilst fans hoop and holler as they all suffer in deep gravel sections. Special mention goes to the borked gravel ratings systems with one star sections featuring gravel which a rider could easily get stuck in (which is what happened to Evenepoel). Imagine if it had been raining...

Next time they should jump the shark entirely & put in some sort of ironman triathlon stage just for sh*ts & giggles. People can always defend that with a 'survival of the fittest' justification as well.

The roads were more fair than I expected them to be. Few mechanicals, few crashes, few unrideable stretches. They favoured those with power, technique & position. As they should.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

Maybe some biathlon as well, aka cross-country skiing with guns. Let's just hope Evenepoel doesn't shoot Vingegaard when he gets p*ssed off.

Florian Lipowitz to win the Tour then?

 

[cellardoor]

Let's be real here - he looked terrible yesterday. It's not all about the team and positioning. He watched his main rivals ride up the road on a flat asphalt section without even flinching. At the end he looked on the verge of dropping off the back of the group when there weren't even any attacks. At the same thing, he's shown hints in the past of being decent on difficult surfaces so long as he avoids crashes. I actually expected him to be better than Remco and Vingo, but he was far from that. Still, hopefully it was just a bad day or nerves or something.

 

[Rackham]

The roads were more fair than I expected them to be. Few mechanicals, few crashes, few unrideable stretches. They favoured those with power, technique & position. As they should.

I don't believe "as they should" even begins to apply with regards yesterday's stage because it's never really been part of the Tour de France before. It was a real first time thing.

For me proper gravel in a GT is like the gravel at the top of La Super Planche des Belles Filles. Yesterday was something different. Sector 2 in particular was a case of 'be well positioned or be screwed' sort of thing, which resulted in riders running up the dirt road carrying their bikes.

It was a circus. And in the end there was no discernible differences in GC, i.e. the excitement was all fuelled by "what if" disaster scenarios which fortunately didn't materialize. Meanwhile at the end of this coming week on the Pla d'Adet we're going to see real gaps à la pédale & business as usual will be resumed.

For me a stage which can only really be decisive if something cr*p happens is not exactly ranked highly on my 'great stages' list.

 

[Netserk]

I don't believe "as they should" even begins to apply with regards yesterday's stage because it's never really been part of the Tour de France before. It was a real first time thing.

For me proper gravel in a GT is like the gravel at the top of La Super Planche des Belles Filles. Yesterday was something different. Sector 2 in particular was a case of 'be well positioned or be screwed' sort of thing, which resulted in riders running up the dirt road carrying their bikes.

It was a circus. And in the end there was no discernible differences in GC, i.e. the excitement was all fuelled by "what if" disaster scenarios which fortunately didn't materialize. Meanwhile at the end of this coming week on the Pla d'Adet we're going to see real gaps à la pédale & business as usual will be resumed.

For me a stage which can only really be decisive if something cr*p happens is not exactly ranked highly on my 'great stages' list.

Oh, but yesterday could easily have been decisive without any crap happening. If Vingegaard were unable to follow Pogi when he bridged up to Evenepoel, it's plausible that a real gap could have been sustained to the finish by strength.

 

[Rackham]

Oh, but yesterday could easily have been decisive without any crap happening. If Vingegaard were unable to follow Pogi when he bridged up to Evenepoel, it's plausible that a real gap could have been sustained to the finish by strength.

I was thinking about that at the time & honestly looking at the firepower in the main bunch, I still think it would have been very risky for those 3 (or even just 2 of them) to ride off like that.

Rodriguez still had lots of teammates. Rog wasn't alone. There were others as well. Obviously in your scenario Vingegaard would have put everyone to work as well. I think people see the top 3 in GC in the clear like that & automatically think "that's it, no one will catch them", but considering how the stage flattened in the final 50km & how obviously no one in the break was going to ride with them, it would have been pretty suicidal to continue IMO, even though it got fans excited & delivered some funny post-race remarks about balls.

It sort of reminded me of the cobbles stage a couple of years ago in which Pog was impressive once again & fired some bullets... but he got very little time gain (when Van Aert saved Vingegaard's Tour).

 

[Netserk]

I was thinking about that at the time & honestly looking at the firepower in the main bunch, I still think it would have been very risky for those 3 (or even just 2 of them) to ride off like that.

Rodriguez still had lots of teammates. Rog wasn't alone. There were others as well. Obviously in your scenario Vingegaard would have put everyone to work as well. I think people see the top 3 in GC in the clear like that & automatically think "that's it, no one will catch them", but considering how the stage flattened in the final 50km & how obviously no one in the break was going to ride with them, it would have been pretty suicidal to continue IMO, even though it got fans excited & delivered some funny post-race remarks about balls.

It sort of reminded me of the cobbles stage a couple of years ago in which Pog was impressive once again & fired some bullets... but he got very little time gain (when Van Aert saved Vingegaard's Tour).

I think that cobbles stage showed that a move can be sustained to the finish. Further out yesterday and different situation, but if any duo could pull it off, it'd be Pogi and Evenepoel.

 

[Blanco]

it's fine. he's not going to win the Tour, i'm just hoping he can win a stage and finish 3rd. maybe Pogacar starts to feel the Giro in his legs and Vingegaards lack of preparation catches up with him, who knows. it's great that he hasn't crashed yet.

Oh boy, how wrong you are

 

[Gargamel35]

Oh boy, how wrong you are

I don't see him winning the Tour either. Actually, right now i don't see him on the podium also.
I think he's holding for dear life right now. If not and he's basically coasting trough first week in order to prepare a killer blow in second/third week...that is incredibly dangerous.

So i don't think he's coasting. He's trying his all to keep up. I don't see his form magically improve in next weeks to challenge anyone from top 3.

 

[svit]

We will see how he performs on Wednesday on the mountain stage after "two" days of rest. The attrition game has not been started yet but he has to start gaining seconds back from Pogacar and the rest of the contenders.

If he got the form trajectory right he should show some form on Wednesday.

 

[dazaau]

I don't see him winning the Tour either. Actually, right now i don't see him on the podium also.
I think he's holding for dear life right now. If not and he's basically coasting trough first week in order to prepare a killer blow in second/third week...that is incredibly dangerous.

So i don't think he's coasting. He's trying his all to keep up. I don't see his form magically improve in next weeks to challenge anyone from top 3.

I think people over rate remco because of what they have seen in week one.

He is always a beast in week 1, in TTs, on classic type stages and on non multiple mountain stage days.

Long way to go.

 

[Keelhaul]

His bridge to the main group was extremely impressive yesterday, he pulled the entire G2 in a couple of minutes from 20-30 sec down to merging.

After that, he seemed to take a conservative approach, if he was limited by form or consciously, I'm not sure, I'm suspecting a bit of both, mostly form.

On the other hand both Pogacar and Evenepoel raced like idiots and it all added up to nothing. Their tactics made no sense to me, all they did was burn a lot of matches. Vingegaard is the clear winner of yesterday.

Roglic should try to stay as close as possible and as he said - he needs to be around and opportunities should arise. He knows first hand, as this is how Pogacar won the tour ahead of him.