Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

[VayaVayaVaya]

@SHAD0W93 If Roglic and Lipowitz both raced the Tour, what do you think the realistic best case scenario and base case would be if A) Lipowitz supported Roglic, B) Roglic supported Lipowitz, or C) watched races on their own?

 

[CyclistAbi]

I’ll make it easier for you, we’re posting in his thread. The weaker rider should ride in support and he’s been weaker.

Ah now i get it you don't want to be blunt and where hence beating around the bush. So in your opinion Lipo is the strongest rider in the team on where it comes to stage racing and the team only has Rogla and nobody else being capable to support Lipo on the ultimate climb.

Don't you find that a bit strange?

IMHO something doesn't add up. Anyway, Lipo was behind Rogla on multiple occasions and that didn't stop anybody and Lipo still raced for his own result. I feel it's reasonable to expect this won't change any time soon so Rogla already supported Lipo more then any other rider likely ever will.

 

[CyclistAbi]

So i guess that is that then, the team doesn't really have anybody capable of supporting Rogla at Vuelta, when it comes to support on ultimate climbs. At best they have Rogla supporting Lipo for the Tour and Rogla supporting Rogla for the Vuelta.

Jeez.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Ah now i get it you don't want to be blunt and where hence beating around the bush. So in your opinion Lipo is the strongest rider in the team on where it comes to stage racing and the team only has Rogla and nobody else being capable to support Lipo on the ultimate climb.

Don't you find that a bit strange?

IMHO something doesn't add up. Anyway, Lipo was behind Rogla on multiple occasions and that didn't stop anybody and Lipo still raced for his own result. I feel it's reasonable to expect this won't change any time soon so Rogla already supported Lipo more then any other rider likely ever will.

No beating around the bush, just using your logic.

Sure was behind Lipo.

Tour de France 2025 Stage 21 results

Tadej PogaÄar is the winner of Tour de France 2025, before Jonas Vingegaard and Florian Lipowitz. The stage from Mantes-la-Ville to Paris (Champs-Ãlysées) was won by Wout van Aert.

www.procyclingstats.com

Itzulia Basque Country 2026 Stage 6 results

Paul Seixas is the winner of Itzulia Basque Country 2026, before Florian Lipowitz and Tobias Halland Johannessen. The stage from Goizper-Antzuola to Bergara was won by Andrew August.

www.procyclingstats.com

 

[Samu Cuenca]

I can't wait for the Vuelta where 7 BORA riders will DNS stage 1.

 

[SHAD0W93]

@SHAD0W93 If Roglic and Lipowitz both raced the Tour, what do you think the realistic best case scenario and base case would be if A) Lipowitz supported Roglic, B) Roglic supported Lipowitz, or C) watched races on their own?

Realistically outside of someone’s fairy tale world, I think B is a better option right now. I think Roglic can be better than he’s shown but that’s 5-10. If it was prime Roglic, Lipo would be a great grinder for him before a stomp. Then Roglic could set a nice pace before Lipo takes over but it’s something we’ve see him rarely do. Just like if all three showed up, it would be better to all try and stay up in GC if they’re similar level. The issue is Rogic has been inferior so far making it hard to justify him support. It’s all based on past accomplishments.

But to answer each point:
A. Best case scenario is 5-10 in GC with a stage win if Roglic gets to 2024 Vuelta form. If he stays like this a top 10 is a stretch barring a breakaway ala Horner, Voeckler, Navarro, etc. but could get some stages. It could end up a wasted Tour for Bora.
B. I think Rogic 100% devoted to domestique work could almost guarantee Lipo to a third place again, maybe second but that depends on Vingegaard and Seixas. Maybe a stage win.
C. It plays out like last year with Roglic potentially finishing worse in GC with no stage wins. Last year’s finish wasn’t really representative of his true level as he could have finished higher. Maybe Lipo doesn’t get third but top 5.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Realistically outside of someone’s fairy tale world, I think B is a better option right now. I think Roglic can be better than he’s shown but that’s 5-10. If it was prime Roglic, Lipo would be a great grinder for him before a stomp. Then Roglic could set a nice pace before Lipo takes over but it’s something we’ve see him rarely do. Just like if all three showed up, it would be better to all try and stay up in GC if they’re similar level. The issue is Rogic has been inferior so far making it hard to justify him support. It’s all based on past accomplishments.

But to answer each point:
A. Best case scenario is 5-10 in GC with a stage win if Roglic gets to 2024 Vuelta form. If he stays like this a top 10 is a stretch barring a breakaway ala Horner, Voeckler, Navarro, etc. but could get some stages. It could end up a wasted Tour for Bora.
B. I think Rogic 100% devoted to domestique work could almost guarantee Lipo to a third place again, maybe second but that depends on Vingegaard and Seixas. Maybe a stage win.
C. It plays out like last year with Roglic potentially finishing worse in GC with no stage wins. Last year’s finish wasn’t really representative of his true level as he could have finished higher. Maybe Lipo doesn’t get third but top 5.

You really think Roglic in 2024 form finished 5-10 in GC? He’d definitely be podium with that form. I guess my issue is that sacrificing dynamic riders who can hit a big one in service to an attritional rider who can maybe get a podium without any standout moments or wins is too low of a ceiling to make the sacrifice worth it. If Lipowitz could realistically win, sure.

 

[SHAD0W93]

You really think Roglic in 2024 form finished 5-10 in GC? He’d definitely be podium with that form. I guess my issue is that sacrificing dynamic riders who can hit a big one in service to an attritional rider who can maybe get a podium without any standout moments or wins is too low of a ceiling to make the sacrifice worth it. If Lipowitz could realistically win, sure.

I think others have gotten better while his hard day attrition worsened. He has better odds to finish higher if he doesn’t go for a yolo attack aka Contador. But I think like Contador he’d rather win a stage than say finish fourth. Third would be a fight.

I agree it is crazy to think of Roglic working for Lipo counting everything. But it is also crazy to constantly complain because your favorite rider isn’t getting 100% support when they’re not riding better than the others.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

I don’t disagree with the last point @SHAD0W93

 

[Rockestar_33]

Rogla was the only one that won a GT in last two season plus i don't buy it, that he couldn't finish third at the Tour 2025 if the team would prefer that. In addition Remco had much worse stage racing 2025 season then Rogla.

Two years ago, Roglic was 3 and a half minutes behind Remco in the only GT they raced against each other before he abandoned. Last year he was over a minute behind before Remco abandoned. Roglic won a very weak Vuelta where Ben O'Connor finished second on GC.

Last year Lipowitz was better than Roglic. Finished 14 minutes and 5 places ahead of him. This year Roglic had an underwhelming Tirreno where he finished well behind IDT and then also behind Jorgensen, Pellizzari and Johannessen, and a disastrous Itzulia where he dropped 20 minutes on the last stage and finished 16th compared to Lipowitz's 2nd.

We'll see if he can podium at Romandie, but I doubt it.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@SHAD0W93

I get your point and in all seriousness indeed RBH can sign Pogi, to get a much needed support rider on the ultimate climbs, or maybe Father Christmas.

@Samu Cuenca

Well, yeah, one for sure will fight, as for the rest i indeed have my doubts, on what that means.

@Rockestar_33

I see, likely even you where better then Rogla in the last two seasons. And other RBH riders won a GT and a week long stage race, not Rogla. The ones that were clearly better then him.

Anyway, lets see on how Romandie goes, the team seems good. Lets see if the team has any support in them or not. Assuming no, that is on how best to start the race. We'll see.

 

[Berniece]

Anyway, lets see on how Romandie goes, the team seems good. Lets see if the team has any support in them or not. Assuming no, that is on how best to start the race. We'll see.

Why would he need a team? UAE is there with Pogacar, he can just follow their lead and do his thing? RBH doesn't need to control the race.

 

[pablohidalgo7]

Two years ago, Roglic was 3 and a half minutes behind Remco in the only GT they raced against each other before he abandoned. Last year he was over a minute behind before Remco abandoned. Roglic won a very weak Vuelta where Ben O'Connor finished second on GC.

Last year Lipowitz was better than Roglic. Finished 14 minutes and 5 places ahead of him. This year Roglic had an underwhelming Tirreno where he finished well behind IDT and then also behind Jorgensen, Pellizzari and Johannessen, and a disastrous Itzulia where he dropped 20 minutes on the last stage and finished 16th compared to Lipowitz's 2nd.

We'll see if he can podium at Romandie, but I doubt it.

Not true, Roglic was 1 min behind Remco (before his crash in stage 12) not 3 and that was the part of the race less suitable for Roglic and best suitable for Remco. It´s true that Remco was super good in the mountain top finishes, but everyone was doing PB in the climbs and Roglic wouldn't have been any different in that respect, considering that he put on several of his best performances in the Vuelta after recovering from and even racing through back problems. At the very least, it would have been a very close battle for that third place.

Last year, Remco abandoned because he couldn't keep up with the peloton on the climbs. How can that be a better Tour perfomance than Roglic's, who could have finished in the top 5 if he hadn't made crazy and maybe stupid things in the Alps? Furthermore, Roglic won a World Tour stage race, while Remco has nothing in terms of stage racing.
Regarding this year it´s true, there is currently nothing to hold onto in relation to Roglic's level compared to others.

On another note, I don't think the Lipo-Primoz duo has make a good match from the start, and I'm reminded of the 2024 Vuelta a España, where a breakaway by Lipowitz jeopardized a sure victory because he didn't follow O'Connor and then only worked at very specific moments like Cuitu Negru while focusing on securing his top 10 finish. By the way, you talk as if Ben had finished second (due to strenght) to Roglic to downplay his level, when the reality is that he put more than 9 minutes into him, considering his breakaway and the time he had already gained earlier, and those kinds of gaps are not common in the Vuelta.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Why would he need a team? UAE is there with Pogacar, he can just follow their lead and do his thing? RBH doesn't need to control the race.

It's rather clear that UAE has similar issues, when it comes to supporting Pogi as a team and Visma in regards to Jonas. But i get what you are saying, RBH could really have such mindset to stage racing. Do you believe it is purposeful, some sort of strategy? Anyway, it is what it is, this likely won't change any time soon.

@pablohidalgo7

Don't worry about it too much, arguing much about not winning and stuff in cycling is rather pointless anyway.

 

[Berniece]

It's rather clear that UAE has similar issues, when it comes to supporting Pogi as a team and Visma in regards to Jonas. But i get what you are saying, RBH could really have such mindset to stage racing. Do you believe it is purposeful, some sort of strategy? Anyway, it is what it is, this likely won't change any time soon.

No, I don't think it's purposeful, I just think it doesn't matter. UAE can take charge, and put yourself in the wheel of Pogacar. Looking forward to see if he's still a podium candidate after stage 4.

 

[CyclistAbi]

No, I don't think it's purposeful, I just think it doesn't matter. UAE can take charge, and put yourself in the wheel of Pogacar. Looking forward to see if he's still a podium candidate after stage 4.

When you say UAE can take charge, the team capable of doing that almost won already. OK, not purposeful then, but they likely feel it doesn't matter. Doesn't matter or they don't care? Or both? That is til rather bad and lets fix that.

Who being a podium candidate after stage 4 and where?

 

[Berniece]

When you say UAE can take charge, the team capable of doing that almost won already. OK, not purposeful then, but they likely feel it doesn't matter. Doesn't matter or they don't care? Or both? That is til rather bad and lets fix that.

Who being a podium candidate after stage 4 and where?

Roglic in Tour de Romandie

 

[CyclistAbi]

Roglic in Tour de Romandie

Ah that, it will be beautiful and i am looking forward to it. Less then a week till start and my heart is singing already. Rogla will do fine.

 

[SHAD0W93]

@SHAD0W93

I get your point and in all seriousness indeed RBH can sign Pogi, to get a much needed support rider on the ultimate climbs, or maybe Father Christmas.

Has Father Christmas ever rode a bike? Then not sure what help Pog can give to Roglic when Roglic can’t keep up on the ultimate climb. Maybe a long range defense?

 

[CyclistAbi]

@SHAD0W93

AFAIK yes, Father Christmas does ride a bike, especially in the off season. As for your other claims, interesting indeed, that the one who supposedly can't keep up won a GT and a week long stage race. And the ones that presumably can keep up didn't. With Pogi i just wanted to point out on how ridiculous your suggestion was. As first of all you couldn't produce a name, that is anybody at RBH that is providing any support on ultimate climbs. And after you even went further and suggested Rogla should basically do that. Their only rider that actually won some.

But i get it, it's just the way it is. Rogla is on his own for now, on when it comes to winning. For now he has to win and on top of that support himself at all times. Fine.

 

[AmRacer]

@SHAD0W93

AFAIK yes, Father Christmas does ride a bike, especially in the off season. As for your other claims, interesting indeed, that the one who supposedly can't keep up won a GT and a week long stage race. And the ones that presumably can keep up didn't. With Pogi i just wanted to point out on how ridiculous your suggestion was. As first of all you couldn't produce a name, that is anybody at RBH that is providing any support on ultimate climbs. And after you even went further and suggested Rogla should basically do that. Their only rider that actually won some.

But i get it, it's just the way it is. Rogla is on his own for now, on when it comes to winning. For now he has to win and on top of that support himself at all times. Fine.

Rogla needs to earn support, cannot live on old records.

 

[SHAD0W93]

@SHAD0W93

AFAIK yes, Father Christmas does ride a bike, especially in the off season. As for your other claims, interesting indeed, that the one who supposedly can't keep up won a GT and a week long stage race. And the ones that presumably can keep up didn't. With Pogi i just wanted to point out on how ridiculous your suggestion was. As first of all you couldn't produce a name, that is anybody at RBH that is providing any support on ultimate climbs. And after you even went further and suggested Rogla should basically do that. Their only rider that actually won some.

But i get it, it's just the way it is. Rogla is on his own for now, on when it comes to winning. For now he has to win and on top of that support himself at all times. Fine.

I wouldn’t consider a sleigh as a bicycle. For your other points, as ever it’s best to actually read what you’re replying to. I’ll also refer you to your own discussion about FW. On supporting others, yes Roglic did all of that. He’s also riding worse than everyone else and has yet to win. So he shall continue to ride on his own remaining winless until it becomes obvious he can keep up with his team on the ultimate climbs again.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@AmRacer
@SHAD0W93

You two would currently likely get well paid as strategic advisors to RBH. As for old records, mentioned wins are from 2024/2025 seasons, so all in all others should first win some before talking about earning something. As for Rogla being supported on ultimate climbs, regardless of the form, by who? You still haven't produce any name beyond saying Rogla should support Rogla. So who? Do you have a name or don't you?

 

[SHAD0W93]

@AmRacer
@SHAD0W93

You two would currently likely get well paid as strategic advisors to RBH. As for old records, mentioned wins are from 2024/2025 seasons, so all in all others should first win some before talking about earning something. As for Rogla being supported on ultimate climbs, regardless of the form, by who? You still haven't produce any name beyond saying Rogla should support Rogla. So who? Do you have a name or don't you?

When I replied to you, you didn’t ask who could support Roglic. You asked who could support the RBH leaders on the ultimate climb and I gave you my answer. That’s why you need to reread what you posted. Unless you think Roglic is the sole RBH leader.

If we’re talking about strictly Roglic, I already said if he can regain his former form he has Lipo, then add on Pelli and Evenepoel that will be there and can help. I’ve also already stated in the past who was there to help Roglic. Those riders aren’t going to support Roglic though if he continues to ride like this, no matter how great his past results are.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@SHAD0W93

Ah OK, Lipo, Giulio, Remco ... Sounds good. Personally i doubt that is possible ATM, not due to Rogla, but i guess it doesn't hurt to try it out then.