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Explosion at Boston Marathon

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Aug 9, 2012
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The Hitch said:
The united states does not strike me as a country which would sit on its hands if it ever found out north Korea was planting bombs in its major cities. From an ir perspective Pyongyang has absolutely nothing to gain from this. They don't care if American citizens live or die. If they have done dumber things before it would been on an infinately smaller scale.

What do you think the US would do if the North Koreans were behind this? What do you think the North Koreans think the US would do if the US found out that they were behind this?

Who is Pyongyang? The country? The leader? A group of generals? Then you can ask what they could gain within their context.

As for past dumb actions, history is full of events. Probably also some which are not public. Here are some articles with examples:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korea–South_Korea_relations
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Pueblo_(AGER-2)
 
Mar 18, 2009
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The Hitch said:
The united states does not strike me as a country which would sit on its hands if it ever found out north Korea was planting bombs in its major cities. From an ir perspective Pyongyang has absolutely nothing to gain from this. They don't care if American citizens live or die. If they have done dumber things before it would been on an infinately smaller scale.

Blowing up a civilian jet was quite a lot bigger. They killed a 115 people in that one. That was personally ordered by Kim Jong Il. But, as you say, it would be suicidal.

For the same reason of not making sense I don't think it will be an organized right-wing organization. Those guys typically bomb buildings. It might be a crazy right-winger with nebulous motives that don't make any sense, like Atlanta, but it be hard to find a right-wing group that thinks it would accomplish anything with this.
 
Dec 7, 2010
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thirteen said:
the fact that every body is so accessible, including runners pealing off and stretching right behind the crowds, is part of the whole ambiance. we are able to witness the joy, the agony, the spirit and determination up close. it draws you in, makes it personal.

what now?

What now?

I trust that next year's Boston Marathon will have record-breaking attendance. I remember going to Times Square for New Year's Eve in 2001, just a few months after 9/11, simply in defiance. Even though some intellectually-challenged politicians had advised people to cower within the halls of their homes on that evening, the streets of NYC were jammed with thousands upon thousands of people, block after block.

I expect much the same reaction from both the public and participants next year at the Boston Marathon. I'll be there myself if at all possible.
 
Aug 9, 2012
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Granville57 said:
No. Just no.

Have you ever been to the DMZ or Camp Bonifas?
Be sure, they have other things on their minds.

No.
Could you tell me what they have on their minds? I'm curious since I'm having trouble understanding them.
 
Dec 7, 2010
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ToreBear said:
No.
Could you tell me what they have on their minds? I'm curious since I'm having trouble understanding them.

This
images


this
360_brhistory_1025.jpg


and this
Military-parade-in-Pyongy-001.jpg





Like the man said...

images
 
Dec 7, 2010
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Alpe d'Huez said:
Hoping to not move this into the US (or World) politics thread...

Point taken. No complaints from me if some of my posts get shuttled over there.



(Especially now that we're practically neighbors. :))
 
Jun 14, 2010
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BroDeal said:
Blowing up a civilian jet was quite a lot bigger. They killed a 115 people in that one. That was personally ordered by Kim Jong Il. But, as you say, it would be suicidal.

For the same reason of not making sense I don't think it will be an organized right-wing organization. Those guys typically bomb buildings. It might be a crazy right-winger with nebulous motives that don't make any sense, like Atlanta, but it be hard to find a right-wing group that thinks it would accomplish anything with this.

Blowing up the airliner was bigger yes. But politically speaking killing American citizens on American soil is a bigger international incident.

ToreBear said:
What do you think the US would do if the North Koreans were behind this? What do you think the North Koreans think the US would do if the US found out that they were behind this?

Who is Pyongyang? The country? The leader? A group of generals? Then you can ask what they could gain within their context.

As for past dumb actions, history is full of events. Probably also some which are not public. Here are some articles with examples:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korea–South_Korea_relations
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Pueblo_(AGER-2)
I think uncle Sam would go to war. I think as any other living organism to grace the planet in the last 800 million years the people in charge in Pyongyang know that if you attack something bigger than you you will get a reaction.
 
Jun 1, 2011
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BroDeal said:
I am tending toward a domestic crazy without political motive or lone person, probably a foreigner, nursing an external/foreign policy political grudge. I doubt a citizen with domestic political concerns would choose the type of bombs that were used, which were made to inflict maximum casualties, and a target of a large group of random people. A bulding or something that represents the typical right-wing boogeyman would be a more likely target if it was domestic terrorism.

You may be to young to remember these guys from the typical left-wing boogyman days. circa 1970-80s. What's the Weatherman teaching these days over here?

2373720917_6121e6ea5d_o.jpg

Bologna, Italy train station bombing by the Red Brigade, 1981. 85 dead, 200 wounded.

I'm trying not to tend toward anyone in the tragedy in Boston yesterday, but why do you limit it to only the far right? Not likely from the left given their in the majority, but I surmise the tendency to already associate a group to the events without the facts. The pulse of this thread and the tried-and-true tactic to influence through emotional reasoning? But we've all gone there I guess.
 
Aug 9, 2012
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Alpe d'Huez said:
Hoping to not move this into the US (or World) politics thread...

So I guess my theory about the President of Fiji needing a distraction from his "constitutional" troubles is better to not mention.

Oops...
:D
 
Aug 9, 2012
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BillytheKid said:
You may be to young to remember these guys from the typical left-wing boogyman days. circa 1970-80s. What's the Weatherman teaching these days over here?

2373720917_6121e6ea5d_o.jpg

Bologna, Italy train station bombing by the Red Brigade, 1981. 85 dead, 200 wounded.

I'm trying not to tend toward anyone in the tragedy in Boston yesterday, but why do you limit it to only the far right? Not likely from the left given their in the majority, but I surmise the tendency to already associate a group to the events without the facts. The pulse of this thread and the tried-and-true tactic to influence through emotional reasoning, but we've all been there I guess.

I don't think the train bombing was the Red Brigades...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclei_Armati_Rivoluzionari
 
Sep 25, 2009
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though i myself expressed a negative view regarding the premature speculation as to who/what group committed the heinous act, the reference to north korea impelled me to say this...

as was cogently related to me by a korean friend, most 'regular' western observers fail to account for a fact that SIGNIFICANT events between both koreas are directly linked to the much bigger picture of the us-sino competition in the area including taiwan and japan...

iow, nothing, absolutely nothing, including the bombastic rhetoric, would have happened without the at least tacit approval from beijing. the n. koreans are simply too existentially dependent on their only true friend and sponsor.
likewise, but to a lesser degree, the south (talking a survival) depends on the us political, military and moral support.

what we are seeing in the korean tensions NOW is nothing but a flair up in the us-sino issues.

for the koreans to be involved in the boston marathon terror act, would imo bring the chinese connection.

sorry, i can not see it given the complexity, interdependence and sensitivity a of the us-sino relations.

my 2 cents...
 
Jun 1, 2011
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Mar 18, 2009
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The Hitch said:
Blowing up the airliner was bigger yes. But politically speaking killing American citizens on American soil is a bigger international incident.

The bombs seem way too crude for NK agents.

The Hitch said:
I think uncle Sam would go to war. I think as any other living organism to grace the planet in the last 800 million years the people in charge in Pyongyang know that if you attack something bigger than you you will get a reaction.

There are no easy options there. They kill three of our citizens so we react in way that will cause the deaths of several hundred thousand South Koreans in the first few hours?
 
Mar 18, 2009
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BillytheKid said:
I'm trying not to tend toward anyone in the tragedy in Boston yesterday, but why do you limit it to only the far right? Not likely from the left given their in the majority, but I surmise the tendency to already associate a group to the events without the facts. The pulse of this thread and the tried-and-true tactic to influence through emotional reasoning? But we've all gone there I guess.

Because the left had their heyday in the 60s and 70s. Then they put away their bongs, passed laws against recreational drugs, and became everything their parents were and more. Now they are left with a bunch youths putting spikes in trees and sneaking into chicken farms to film.

The right on the other hand has become ever more radicalized. Even mainstream right-wing thought is filled with apocalyptic visions of the future and the idea that the country needs to be freed from socialist boogeymen who have taken over the country. You simply do not find acceptance for that sort of thinking on the left, certainly not in the warlike terms that it is commonly expressed by the right.
 
Apr 20, 2009
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The Hitch said:
Why would north Korea start targetting civilians in Boston.
There's no motive and it would be the dumbest thing they could possibly do.

while i really doubt the north korea has anything to do with this, the fact that there is no apparent motive to reasonable people does not exclude their involvement.

north korea over a decade or so in the 70s and 80s kidnapped a couple dozen japanese citizens, a couple of them just children, in order to teach them about japan. they were generally treated well (for kidnap victims) and were married off to each other, to north koreans and, in one case, an american defector. however, north korea already had hundreds of native born japanese who willingly came to north korea all most all of whom were never given anything better than peasant status and none of whom were trusted.

fwiw
 
Jun 1, 2011
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BroDeal said:
Because the left had their heyday in the 60s and 70s. Then they put away their bongs, passed laws against recreational drugs, and became everything their parents were and more. Now they are left with a bunch youths putting spikes in trees and sneaking into chicken farms to film.

The right on the other hand has become ever more radicalized. Even mainstream right-wing thought is filled with apocalyptic visions of the future and the idea that the country needs to be freed from socialist boogeymen who have taken over the country. You simply do not find acceptance for that sort of thinking on the left, certainly not in the warlike terms that it is commonly expressed by the right.

I did say "not likely." So we agree. The point is I am really trying not to "tend towards" anyone. The thoughts do come though. So I guess I'll check out of the thread with that.
 
Jun 14, 2010
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BroDeal said:
The bombs seem way too crude for NK agents.



There are no easy options there. They kill three of our citizens so we react in way that will cause the deaths of several hundred thousand South Koreans in the first few hours?

The casualty tally could have been higher. Maybe you are right though, maybe North Korea could survive a 1 off attack. But American tolerance for having its citizens blown up on American soil is very very low. Maybe in this imaginary situation thered be another card to play. Maybe not.
 
Jul 21, 2012
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Does it make any sense for foreign terrorist groups to attack a marathon though? Woudnt they go for a building or something?
 
Mar 18, 2009
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The Hitch said:
The casualty tally could have been higher. Maybe you are right though, maybe North Korea could survive a 1 off attack. But American tolerance for having its citizens blown up on American soil is very very low. Maybe in this imaginary situation thered be another card to play. Maybe not.

I am just saying that even in a "simple" situation like Afghanistan, the options turned out to be less than simple. The government of Afghanistan had nothing to do with 9/11 and the war still ended up a clusterfcuk. NK is infinitely more complex. The opportunity could be used to bomb NK's nuclear facilities with the hope that NK would not respond for fear of starting a war that would cause the regime to collapse. That would seem to be the best option. Stealth planes might be able to take out Kim, which might cause an internal struggle for control. A limited number of military targets could be bombed. But anything would run the risk of total war on the peninsula, which would be catastrophic on all sides, including the U.S., which is not in an economic position to afford a multi-year hot war.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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So what is with the New York Post getting everything so wrong? Did they just make stuff up or what?
 
Jun 22, 2009
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BroDeal said:
Because the left had their heyday in the 60s and 70s. Then they put away their bongs, passed laws against recreational drugs, and became everything their parents were and more. Now they are left with a bunch youths putting spikes in trees and sneaking into chicken farms to film.

The right on the other hand has become ever more radicalized. Even mainstream right-wing thought is filled with apocalyptic visions of the future and the idea that the country needs to be freed from socialist boogeymen who have taken over the country. You simply do not find acceptance for that sort of thinking on the left, certainly not in the warlike terms that it is commonly expressed by the right.

This. Chapeau, BD.

I may have been the first to mention 'wingnuts' here, but I certainly did not start off the question of who is to blame, the right/left issue, or anyone else. I mentioned the wingnuts only because I had just been reading pages of exactly what BD described above - insane ramblings by uneducated, semi-literates blaming Obama, the Gubmint, Muslims, socialists, liberals, and "foreign ragheads" for the outrage, while at the same time accusing the "lying, distorting mainstream media" of blaming them, the Tea Party, and conservatives for the act.

I have not, till now, expressed any personal opinion about who might have carried out this bombing. None of us has any idea, but everyone has some kind of opinion. Those of us who are sane, look at the few available facts and indications, and then form an opinion that may or may not eventually turn out to be correct. The wingnuts on the other hand, all jump to instant, insane, conspiracy-based conclusions, and immediately accept as fact some bizarre ranting by some other wingnut. You should have seen the blood lust when the official TP page claimed that a Saudi "suspect" was in custody at a hospital. Even long after the story was debunked as completely false, they were still going apesh!t about Muslims. As Scott, in his capacity as the main representative of the 'other side' here knows perfectly well, when I say 'wingnuts', I specifically mean the crazies, I do not mean every Republican or even every conservative.

I cannot seriously believe for one second that either NK or Al-Q had anything to do with this - not big enough, not deadly enough, why there and on that specific day? I also cannot believe that anyone with any kind of organization was responsible. This looks all over like the action of a lone wolf, or maybe a couple of them. Some expert on CNN said that the fact that the smoke from the explosion was white, rather than black, meant that the explosive was low grade. (I claim no first hand knowledge about explosives.) This would suggest a degree of amateurism, which might reasonably suggest that the perp was young, as well as disturbed.

My best hunch is that this is a lone, home grown whackjob with some specific, imaginary, axe to grind, rather than someone with strong political sentiments for or against one side or the other.

Let us certainly be thankful that despite the many horrendous injuries we've heard about, 'only' three are dead, so far.
 
Jul 9, 2009
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BroDeal said:
So what is with the New York Post getting everything so wrong? Did they just make stuff up or what?

You've obviously not been reading the Post over a long period of time. It's what they do.:rolleyes:
 
Jun 22, 2009
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BroDeal said:
So what is with the New York Post getting everything so wrong? Did they just make stuff up or what?

One of their reporters must have been in the same ER having a bad trip. The 'story' was then picked up by Breitbart. The Teatards ran the original story as fact for a few hours, then changed the link from NY Post to Breitbart and added -

UPDATE: News sources now stating that this report is unconfirmed.

They left the topic up like that till at least midday eastern today, when I left home to go to a concert. It has now finally been removed, but not before it gave literally thousands of crazies the opportunity to post their hatred and blood lust for Muslims. At the same time, they ran another topic claiming that the 'liberal media' was "typically" blaming them, the TP. That is why I detest those people so much, they give an entire new meaning to the concept of hypocrisy.

edit - I stand corrected. This vile TP rabble rousing is still there, more than 24 hours after this 'story' has been discredited. It had just slipped further down the page - now over 3k replies.

UPDATE: News sources now stating that this report is unconfirmed.

'Person of Interest' in Boston Marathon terrorist bombing being guarded at a hospital by Boston police.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/04/15/Report-Post-Saudi-national