^ Merckx, just to correct you on fact number two there... it was Tamerlan that Jeff Bauman saw.
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Merckx index said:Yes, but keep a couple of things in mind:
1) He still has those rights; he just wasn’t informed of them. Anyone who knowingly and willingly breaks the law ought to know that he has the right to remain silent until he gets legal counsel. It’s an oft-repeated truism that ignorance of the law is not a defense, that it’s every individual’s responsibility to be informed about the law. So you could argue that ignorance of your rights does not always and necessarily imply that you should be informed of those rights.
2) The reason the government doesn’t want to inform him of his rights is not with the idea of building a stronger case against him. On the contrary, it’s possible that anything he says under these conditions could be challenged in a trial. The reason the government doesn’t want to inform him of his rights is because once a lawyer intervenes between him and the government, the chances of finding out about any other people that might have been involved in the bombing decreases considerably. The government is arguably gambling here, risking their case against Dzhokhar for the sake of getting more information on others.
It seems to me that Dzhokhar is clearly toast at this point. He will spend the rest of his life in prison, the only question being how much longer that life will be, i.e., will he be executed. But if other people were involved in the bombing, his testimony could be critical in finding them and preventing future actions. There have been unconfirmed reports of a cell involving a dozen people, and two people who were among three who were originally detained and then released have been re-arrested. I understand the symbolism in reading him his rights, and am also uncomfortable about not doing this, but if as a practical matter not reading them only affects the ability to gather evidence against others, a case can be made for suspending these rights. I can at least understand the thought process involved.
Wallace said:I am very uncomfortable when the Gov't finds reasons, as they so often do, to dispense with the rights which are supposed to be intrinsic to all U.S. citizens.
Amsterhammer said:Aren't we all? I think this is an issue that most would agree on, though the Alex Smith/Glenn Beck batsh!t insane wing takes the conspiracy paranoia to whole new heights. I actually read through the link below, from a page that I wouldn't normally touch, and I have to say that some questions are raised, that really should be addressed. See for yourselves.
http://www.libertariannews.org/2013...ors-belie-the-official-boston-marathon-story/
Incidentally, unless there is any earth shattering news emanating from D.C. today, we'll have to wait till whenever Glenn Beck goes live for his earth shattering, utterly unbelievable, revelations about what Obama and the gubmint have sneakily been up to with the mysterious Saudi, and why this is possibly the most important story ever, in the history of all of Beck's most important stories ever......and what all this has to do with cover ups of federal conspiracies......
Amsterhammer said:Aren't we all? I think this is an issue that most would agree on, though the Alex Smith/Glenn Beck batsh!t insane wing takes the conspiracy paranoia to whole new heights. I actually read through the link below, from a page that I wouldn't normally touch, and I have to say that some questions are raised, that really should be addressed. See for yourselves.
http://www.libertariannews.org/2013...ors-belie-the-official-boston-marathon-story/
python said:but the actual fact that most western media jumped on the fact the brothers were ethnic chechens rather than kids brought up in america
python said:what's troubling is that the FBI Confirms Agents Interviewed Boston Bombing Suspect In 2011
.
need we to spell out ?
'a foreign government '= russia,
'unspecified underground groups'= chechen insurgency
iow, the fbi was tipped off, found NO 'set backs in the us' and likely missed an opportunity to stop the calamity.
ChewbaccaD said:He did give the approval for the bin Ladden take-down...I'm sure he personally nixed the investigation into Tsarnaev too thereby legitimizing your comparison...
Wallace said:I am very uncomfortable when the Gov't finds reasons, as they so often do, to dispense with the rights which are supposed to be intrinsic to all U.S. citizens.
The Boston bombing suspect will be tried as a criminal and not an “enemy combatant,” Obama administration officials told The Associated Press on Monday.
Word from the White House came moments after CBS News learned that 19-year-old Dzhokhar Tsarnaev had officially been charged with helping execute the attack on the Boston Marathon that killed three and left over 180 injured.
It’s not yet clear what the specific charges are, but he’s likely to face multiple counts of murder and attempted murder, both of which carry potential life sentences.
i did not express myself the way you quoted me. check above, i said, likely missed an opportunityDirtyWorks said:<snip>
But to then make the leap to "could have stopped this tragedy" is not possible. HOW would stopping have worked? Let's ignore the fact there was no crime committed at the time of the interview. FBI commands the guy to visit a mental health professional? Seriously, how would that work?
python said:i did not express myself the way you quoted me. check above, i said, likely missed an opportunity
the opportunity to follow the tip off more seriously and closely had to do with the fact (as confirmed by the official fbi press release and the uncle) that the older brother was becoming a radical islamist - with all the potential for violence of the said gropus- as long as 3 years ago.
normally, if tip-offs like that are believed to have substantive, that person or organization would be put under a close surveillance - phone taps, internet isp monitoring, physical following etc.
clearly, the brothers somehow managed to illegally amass explosive and weapons used later to kill innocent people. this would not happen if the apprehension for the illegal activity procuring weapons and explosives for instance - occurred earlier.
i am more than sure that the fbi is capable of properly reacting to a real or perceived public threat , but somehow, in this case it did not happen. that's all i meant.
python said:normally, if tip-offs like that are believed to have substantive, that person or organization would be put under a close surveillance - phone taps, internet isp monitoring, physical following etc.
python said:clearly, the brothers somehow managed to illegally amass explosive and weapons used later to kill innocent people. this would not happen if the apprehension for the illegal activity procuring weapons and explosives for instance - occurred earlier.
Merckx index said:That libertarian news link is very interesting. Usually I don’t take conspiracy theory stuff very seriously, and some of this is way over the top. Apparently the blogger really believes or did believe that the blast was a fake, and that the injuries were staged. That Jeff Baumann, who was photographed in a wheelchair, was an actor with no injuries. His evidence for this—that one doesn’t see any blood dripping from his legs. Whew.
But I agree with the blogger that some of the events as reported don’t make much sense, like confessing to the bombing to the guy whose car they stole, and not killing him, but giving him a chance to escape when they left him alone in the car. I have also wondered why Dzhokhar didn’t shoot the boat owner, who he had to know would tell the cops his location.
In fact, the entire Thursday night scenario doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. Why would they intentionally provoke a confrontation with the cops? Did they want to go down in an orgy of killing? Wouldn’t they try to stay alive as long as possible, carrying out more bombings and killings? It certainly seems clear that Dzhokhar was trying to save his own skin.
And a major point this link raises that I have wondered about all along is that naked guy who was taken into police custody on Thursday night, the night of the shootout with the cops. I saw that on the news, that really happened. Who was this guy, and why has no news outlet that I know of mentioned him since? According to the libertarian link, his aunt says it was Tamerlan. But that doesn’t seem possible, because if he was, the cops would have known someone would recognize him on the video and blow their story of Tamerlan dying in a shootout. And why have none of the brothers’ relatives referred at all to that naked guy since?
He might have been the guy who held up the convenience store, but then why was he ordered to strip? At the least, he must have been thought to be Tamerlan at the time. Did they realize as soon as they got a good look at him that he wasn’t Tamerlan? Or did they think he might have worked with the brothers?
Picking up on Python’s comments, there is another major unanswered question regarding the FBI. There have been more reports that they believe the Tsarnaevs did not act alone, that they had help from some twelve person sleeper cell, three members of which have allegedly been arrested. Even while other government officials continue to say there is no evidence that the brothers did not act alone. But in any case, why is this sleeper cell coming to light now?
The FBI couldn’t have learned about it from the Tsarnaevs, because Tamerlan is dead, and his brother was not yet able to talk at the time the story first broke. So did the FBI know about it before the bombing? Then why weren’t they immediately suspicious that it was behind the bombing? Or if they were, why did they keep saying at that time they had no leads, when clearly any indication they might know who was behind the bombing would have reassured the public?
I don't have much regard for Glenn Beck, but I agree with him that the government has apparently protected Saudis in the past, and there certainly seems to be some kind of deal with the Saudi government/royal family in that regard. This latest deportation may not be quite the earth shattering news he makes it out to be, but the government has some explaining to do.
Steve H. said:Warning very graphic picture:
Ask yourself what the lady in the white shirt and red jacket is lying on.
http://jto.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/wn20130417n1b.jpg
WASHINGTON -- US Senator Lindsey Graham said this morning that the FBI told him it was initially unaware that Tamerlan Tsarnaev had traveled to Russia early last year because of a clerical error: His name was misspelled.
“He went over to Russia, but apparently, when he got on the Aeroflot plane, they misspelled his name,” Graham, a South Carolina Republican said on Fox television this morning. “So it never went into the system that he actually went to Russia.”
Update: At the very end of the Senate Judiciary Committee Immigration hearing, Chuck Schumer said the error arose from Aeroflot typing in Tamerlan’s name incorrectly, so it appears it was not an attempt to deceive by Tamerlan.
Steve H. said:Warning very graphic picture:
Ask yourself what the lady in the white shirt and red jacket is lying on.
http://jto.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/wn20130417n1b.jpg
RetroActive said:Make of this what you will.
Are You Just A Believer Or Do You THINK?
http://buelahman.wordpress.com/2013/04/20/are-you-just-a-believer-or-do-you-think/
hiero2 said:O. M. F. G.
Do you REALLY think, this guy "just-a-believer-or-do-you-think" has ANY connection to reality? If you do, we have nothing to discuss.
I have BEEN on the ground - with my leg in two pieces. I have seen my own bones exposed. I LIVED through the incident. I worked with a man who had a VERY similar injury - except he was out in the middle of the desert, on a motorcycle. He had to drive himself back to where he could be met by medical personnel. With his own bones protruding from his leg as he drove the 20-30 minute trip to where he could get medical assistance.
Whoever posted this complete idiocy has more going on in his mind than truth. This guy probably believes what he says, but he/she has a poor connection to reality. What this guy posts is not just idiocy, it is COMPLETELY disrespectful, and dismissive, of people who suffered REAL injuries on that day. This is utter, and complete, wing nut nonsense. What this person says, that they have knowledge because they have training? Somehow, in this case, that training has no meaning. To this person, there is a political/religious meaning that has greater importance than simple truth. It makes me sick.
Amsterhammer said:...and how did 19 year old Dzhokhar manage to elude the thousands of armed police, road blocks, etc., dump the SUV and creep unnoticed into that boat?
And how exactly did Tamerlan die? It was 'reported' that Dzhokar had run him over in the SUV when he was still alive, as he drove through a police road block where Tamerlan happened to be lying on the ground?
There are still too many holes and inconsistencies, and yes, I also found that parts of the libertarian blogger's text posed questions that must be answered. We need a credible, consistent report of how things went down. The truth would also be nice.
RetroActive said:Same sort of thing was happening with Sandy Hook. I suppose it's what happens when gov't continuosly lies to people.
What I do believe is that we're being wound up for a wider war however you slice it.
The Tehran factor: New wrinkle added to Canadian counter-terrorism efforts
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...an-counter-terrorism-efforts/article11492175/