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With the first pick in the CyclingNews Doping Draft, Equipo Libertine Seguros select Miguel Indurain Larraya from the 1995 Tour de France.
While many participants may be surprised to see Libertine Seguros select a rider not known as a pure climber, there needs to be somebody in the squad operating as an all-rounder. Miguelón fits the bill, at least at this point in his career. Earlier in the era of Big Mig domination, he was rather one-dimensional, and won races in quiet, unassuming fashion, but by 1995 he had proven his versatility; he was still winning lengthy time trials and winning them big, but he was also making a minute on the pack in a stage like the hilly Charleroi - Liège stage, and won minutes on those he deemed as a threat in the mountains. He rendered many of the best climbers of the EPO generation afterthoughts, and gladly followed them around the mountains not losing an inch.
There have perhaps been more dominant dope-fuelled performances in the post-1990 generation. But that's more the result of Indurain's quiet and unassuming personality than anything else, because in the 1995 Tour de France he showed he could destroy the field anytime he wanted, he just didn't, because he didn't need the additional exclamation marks on his victory. He was the best in the hills. He was more or less the best in the mountains. He had minutes in hand in the chrono. And if he got away, nobody was catching arguably the most dominant time triallist of all time.
So yes: the biggest grimpeur fetishist on the forum picks an 80kg time triallist as their first rider
Edit: each draft post should probably include a summary of the draft to date so people know who's available at a glance.
Round 1
Pick 1: Libertine Seguros - Miguel Indurain (1995 Tour)
While many participants may be surprised to see Libertine Seguros select a rider not known as a pure climber, there needs to be somebody in the squad operating as an all-rounder. Miguelón fits the bill, at least at this point in his career. Earlier in the era of Big Mig domination, he was rather one-dimensional, and won races in quiet, unassuming fashion, but by 1995 he had proven his versatility; he was still winning lengthy time trials and winning them big, but he was also making a minute on the pack in a stage like the hilly Charleroi - Liège stage, and won minutes on those he deemed as a threat in the mountains. He rendered many of the best climbers of the EPO generation afterthoughts, and gladly followed them around the mountains not losing an inch.
There have perhaps been more dominant dope-fuelled performances in the post-1990 generation. But that's more the result of Indurain's quiet and unassuming personality than anything else, because in the 1995 Tour de France he showed he could destroy the field anytime he wanted, he just didn't, because he didn't need the additional exclamation marks on his victory. He was the best in the hills. He was more or less the best in the mountains. He had minutes in hand in the chrono. And if he got away, nobody was catching arguably the most dominant time triallist of all time.
So yes: the biggest grimpeur fetishist on the forum picks an 80kg time triallist as their first rider
Edit: each draft post should probably include a summary of the draft to date so people know who's available at a glance.
Round 1
Pick 1: Libertine Seguros - Miguel Indurain (1995 Tour)
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!
Indurain is the clear cut number 1 imo, no one close, but I was hoping most would overlook him.
Gets more complicated after that.
There's 4 guys I'm looking deeply at.
Indurain is the clear cut number 1 imo, no one close, but I was hoping most would overlook him.
Gets more complicated after that.
There's 4 guys I'm looking deeply at.
Re:
GT routes really isn't my strong point so if anyone wnats to suggest a good one feel free to do so.
I would say at least one 50+ km flat ITT and maybe TTT too?
The Hitch said:
GT routes really isn't my strong point so if anyone wnats to suggest a good one feel free to do so.
I would say at least one 50+ km flat ITT and maybe TTT too?
Hitch, you're #2 so you have the next pick
Now I have a long wait for my next pick to see who's available to back up Miguelón...
Now I have a long wait for my next pick to see who's available to back up Miguelón...
Re:
I know. I was gonna pick Mig but now you made me think about it. Like you don't have another pick for a while so have to get it right. Narrowed it down to 2.Libertine Seguros said:Hitch, you're #2 so you have the next pick
Now I have a long wait for my next pick to see who's available to back up Miguelón...
imo, drafters should include some career defining and or spectacular pics of the riders they draft in the post they draft them in
With the 2nd pick of the 2015 CNF draft, the Hitch selects Lance Armstrong, all rounder, Texas.
(Lance Armstrong catching and passing Ivan Basso in Alpe time trial 2004)
In the climbing threads I have argued that Lance Armstrong was not the best climber and I would take others above him.
That may be the case, but, he's still top 5, and a better time trialer than all the guys above him.
Enough about his whole career though, though it shows consistency, the version I am taking is the 2004 version. Didn't win the mountain stages by minutes.
But he did win an incredible 5 stages (+ a ttt). Came 2nd at s.t on one.
Not the highest VAM ever, but not far off on Alpe d huez (though it was a tt)
Won the tt by over a minute. And some of the guys he destroyed in that tt were all time great tters.
Plenty of the guys he beat in the mountains were all time great climbers.
Plenty of future and past gt winners were made to look ordinary by Armstrong in that Tour.
And it was only won out of 7 in a row.
Great leader.
No gifts.
No weaknesses.
Had the Tour won before anyone even turned up.
Unbeatable.
Round 1
Pick 1: Libertine Seguros - Miguel Indurain (1995 Tour)
Pick 2: The Hitch - Lance Armstrong (2004 Tour de France)
In the climbing threads I have argued that Lance Armstrong was not the best climber and I would take others above him.
That may be the case, but, he's still top 5, and a better time trialer than all the guys above him.
Enough about his whole career though, though it shows consistency, the version I am taking is the 2004 version. Didn't win the mountain stages by minutes.
But he did win an incredible 5 stages (+ a ttt). Came 2nd at s.t on one.
Not the highest VAM ever, but not far off on Alpe d huez (though it was a tt)
Won the tt by over a minute. And some of the guys he destroyed in that tt were all time great tters.
Plenty of the guys he beat in the mountains were all time great climbers.
Plenty of future and past gt winners were made to look ordinary by Armstrong in that Tour.
And it was only won out of 7 in a row.
Great leader.
No gifts.
No weaknesses.
Had the Tour won before anyone even turned up.
Unbeatable.
Round 1
Pick 1: Libertine Seguros - Miguel Indurain (1995 Tour)
Pick 2: The Hitch - Lance Armstrong (2004 Tour de France)
Lance is a great pick. There's a case to be made that he's even better than Mig on a variety of Tour routes, though because Mig rarely did more than necessary in the mountains it's not easy to say how good he really was.
I'd also like to know who hitch thinks is a better climber than Lance. I'd put him top 3 at worst. Chances are high these guys will be picked next though, so let's not mention them.
I'd also like to know who hitch thinks is a better climber than Lance. I'd put him top 3 at worst. Chances are high these guys will be picked next though, so let's not mention them.
Mig wasn't a better climber than Armstrong, come on. And Armstrong's time trialling was truly elite, second only to Mig and one year's version of undrafted among the GC greats.
Lance gets bonus points for being insane and the undisputed leader.
I'm debating between a few guys, but will decide soon.
I'm debating between a few guys, but will decide soon.
With Big Mig and Wonderboy gone, things are going to be tricky for the rest of us.
Good thing my team spent extra time in the Canaries
Good thing my team spent extra time in the Canaries
damn, I was hoping Lance would fall to me. there's nobody better considering this is the fantasy doping draft. he would make damn sure he and the rest of the team were properly doped up and also guarantee that nobody would test positive. really surprised that he didn't go first, although I guess you can't argue with Big Mig, either.
As SeriousSam notes, I did think about Lance (agree with Hitch that the 2004 vintage is the one to have) but the fact that Miguelón in his era of domination only did what he had to in the mountains much of the time settled it for me; if Mig had raced with Lance's domineering personality and stamped his authority over every stage like he did to La Plagne in 1995, those GCs could have been real messy.
As Chris Boardman once said, the worst thing about being beaten by Indurain is that he's such a nice guy you can't even hate him for beating you every race.
As Chris Boardman once said, the worst thing about being beaten by Indurain is that he's such a nice guy you can't even hate him for beating you every race.
round 1, pick 3 of the CN doping draft I select: Jan Ullrich, 1997 TDF.
Yes, he got beaten by Lance a million times but Jan was at his most mutant in the 1997 tour.
Some might think of him as a TT specialst that could climb pretty good, but in this tour he showed that he could also climb with the very best. The fireworks began when he destroyed all the other GC contenders on the stage to Andorra with over 1 minute. 2 days later he won the hilly ITT by over 3(!) minutes and the tour was already over. Nevertheless, the next day he posted the 5th fastest time ever on Alpe d'huez, proving that there are very few riders who can drop peak Ullrich in the mountains.
He finished 2nd and 3rd on the remaining mountain stages and 2nd in the final ITT, winning the overall by over 9 minutes, making it imo one of the most dominant tour wins in the EPO era. Ullrich is one of the few riders who can both TT and climb at an elite level, so I felt like he was a must pick at this point in the draft.
Round 1
Pick 1: Libertine Seguros - Miguel Indurain (1995 Tour)
Pick 2: The Hitch - Lance Armstrong (2004 Tour de France)
Pick 3: The Sceptic - Jan Ullrich (1997 TDF)
Yes, he got beaten by Lance a million times but Jan was at his most mutant in the 1997 tour.
Some might think of him as a TT specialst that could climb pretty good, but in this tour he showed that he could also climb with the very best. The fireworks began when he destroyed all the other GC contenders on the stage to Andorra with over 1 minute. 2 days later he won the hilly ITT by over 3(!) minutes and the tour was already over. Nevertheless, the next day he posted the 5th fastest time ever on Alpe d'huez, proving that there are very few riders who can drop peak Ullrich in the mountains.
He finished 2nd and 3rd on the remaining mountain stages and 2nd in the final ITT, winning the overall by over 9 minutes, making it imo one of the most dominant tour wins in the EPO era. Ullrich is one of the few riders who can both TT and climb at an elite level, so I felt like he was a must pick at this point in the draft.
Round 1
Pick 1: Libertine Seguros - Miguel Indurain (1995 Tour)
Pick 2: The Hitch - Lance Armstrong (2004 Tour de France)
Pick 3: The Sceptic - Jan Ullrich (1997 TDF)
Re:
The great thing about the arcalis win iirc wasn't just that he won by a minute but that he didn't even attack, just dragged everyone on the front and they all cracked.
Originally I had Ulrich 97 (there isn't any other version really other than 2006 hypothetical Ullrich) low on the list. Then I strongly considered him but in the end decided Armstrong was stronger since Armstrong beat Ulrich so many times and 2004 Armstrong won more stages.
Also ullrich came in the interegnum between lance and Indurain and didnt really make much of a claim on it.
In the end I had Ullrich 4th/5th on my big board so there is at least one other guy I would take ahead of him.
I think theres 3 riders who should split the next 3 picks between them before a very slight drop off.
the sceptic said:round 1, pick 3 of the CN doping draft I select: Jan Ullrich, 1997 TDF.
Yes, he got beaten by Lance a million times but Jan was at his most mutant in the 1997 tour.
Some might think of him as a TT specialst that could climb pretty good, but in this tour he showed that he could also climb with the very best. The fireworks began when he destroyed all the other GC contenders on the stage to Andorra with over 1 minute. 2 days later he won the hilly ITT by over 3(!) minutes and the tour was already over. Nevertheless, the next day he posted the 5th fastest time ever on Alpe d'huez, proving that there are very few riders who can drop peak Ullrich in the mountains.
He finished 2nd and 3rd on the remaining mountain stages and 2nd in the final ITT, winning the overall by over 9 minutes, making it imo one of the most dominant tour wins in the EPO era. Ullrich is one of the few riders who can both TT and climb at an elite level, so I felt like he was a must pick at this point in the draft.
Round 1
Pick 1: Libertine Seguros - Miguel Indurain (1995 Tour)
Pick 2: The Hitch - Lance Armstrong (2004 Tour de France)
Pick 3: The Sceptic - Jan Ullrich (1997 TDF)
The great thing about the arcalis win iirc wasn't just that he won by a minute but that he didn't even attack, just dragged everyone on the front and they all cracked.
Originally I had Ulrich 97 (there isn't any other version really other than 2006 hypothetical Ullrich) low on the list. Then I strongly considered him but in the end decided Armstrong was stronger since Armstrong beat Ulrich so many times and 2004 Armstrong won more stages.
Also ullrich came in the interegnum between lance and Indurain and didnt really make much of a claim on it.
In the end I had Ullrich 4th/5th on my big board so there is at least one other guy I would take ahead of him.
I think theres 3 riders who should split the next 3 picks between them before a very slight drop off.
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