Federal Prosecutor Doug Miller Assigned to Landis case

[Hawkwood]

Cheers, I`ts not a problem flicker.
The subjective interpritation of the written word is such that meaning is in the mind of the reader and it`s the authers job, if he wants to be understood, to counter that subjectivity with clarity.
Clarity takes far more words than your typical posting so I think its best to give grace till proven otherwise.

The dogs asleep, the Sun is shining and all is well In my world.

Hi Darryl
I used to follow your exploits and those of the Manchester Wheelers in the `comic' back in the 1980s. Do you remember Mark Bell, he was one of the riders local to me, great on a bike but sadly now dead?

I'm guessing that the rider who won a `national tour' also went on to work closely with a certain young Lance Armstrong in order to show him the ropes.

 

[thehog]

Cs




............

 

[Darryl Webster]

Hi Darryl
I used to follow your exploits and those of the Manchester Wheelers in the `comic' back in the 1980s. Do you remember Mark Bell, he was one of the riders local to me, great on a bike but sadly now dead?

I'm guessing that the rider who won a `national tour' also went on to work closely with a certain young Lance Armstrong in order to show him the ropes.

Sadly Mark Bell passed away last year after a long battle with Alcaholism.

Im not aware that rider in question worked with Lance, Im fairly certain he didnt but he is employed by a team much closer to home mainly with the track as far as im aware.

Shares the the same nationality as the sponsors owner.

 

[Hawkwood]

Sadly Mark Bell passed away last year after a long battle with Alcaholism.

Im not aware that rider in question worked with Lance, Im fairly certain he didnt but he is employed by a team much closer to home mainly with the track as far as im aware.

Shares the the same nationality as the sponsors owner.

I'm guessing he won the Milk Race then!

 

[buckwheat]

None of my "revalations" have the substance ( other than curcumstantial..ie in the race I mentioned all the team bar one rider was actualy pulled from the final stage...and that is verifiable) , my point was to " set the scene" of what its realy like in the elite game.
Its a war , winning is everything and losing is..well for "losers". I guess for some, I fit into that catogory?.
Ive nothing to gain and equaly nothing to lose from my postings. Im careful with my wording.
I woud like to see elite sports become clean in all manner of ways but It will never happen because as in any business money is the God of temptation.
The best we can hope for is to prevent the excess`s that lead to deaths.
If anyone realy wants to see sport go down your local recreation park and watch little league and see it in all its glory.

Sentiment of the ages!

Thanks

BTW, this is the reason I ride my bike, improve as much as possible, and don't engage in idolatry.

 

[Roland Rat]

Cs




............

Ss


I think most of us assume most pro's who won something in the early-mid 90's have some skeletons. I wouldn't be surprised if a certain coach of the Aussie-owned British team who rode for GB but is as British as Lennox Lewis, and probably likes Pizza, doesn't have a few tales to tell also.

 

[badboygolf16v]

I think most of us assume most pro's who won something in the early-mid 90's have some skeletons. I wouldn't be surprised if a certain coach of the Aussie-owned British team who rode for GB but is as British as Lennox Lewis, and probably likes Pizza, doesn't have a few tales to tell also.

Well, he's on record in Cycle Sport from ages back saying there's too much medicine in cycling.. Can't remember the issue, threw them all away years ago.

 

[Oldman]

Well, he's on record in Cycle Sport from ages back saying there's too much medicine in cycling.. Can't remember the issue, threw them all away years ago.

There's to much "medicine" in Medicine. That's becoming a societal problem as the dependence on clinical "fixes" for everything is the answer. Some of the justifications fans use to justify their heroes usage equates PED's with everyman's everyday life.

 

[Anonymous]

Ss


I think most of us assume most pro's who won something in the early-mid 90's have some skeletons. I wouldn't be surprised if a certain coach of the Aussie-owned British team who rode for GB but is as British as Lennox Lewis, and probably likes Pizza, doesn't have a few tales to tell also.

you could just say max sciandri and save the less educated from having to work it out.

 

[Darryl Webster]

you could just say max sciandri and save the less educated from having to work it out.

You could but youd be wrong.

 

[Magnific0]

Webster

I have heard from an ex friend who worked as mechanic with pro teams through 80's into 90's who told me he witnessed the same "coach" inject straight through his shirt sleeve to take some sort of "high" before hitting the town one night,
I worked with a notorious British team at the TDF in 87 and was given a prespcription to collect at a French chemist. After I was interrogated for about 5 minutes as to why I needed what I believe to be corticoids the lady accepted that I was merely the collection person , she handed them over.
The soigneur on the team had a book of signed prescriptions from a doctor in Edinburgh so make of that what you will.
The coach/ ex rider plus another one of the riders from that 87 team are still active with domestic scene and the coach is active in the national track team.
When working on some 6 day races, I was warned by various people to be vigilant with the German team I was with as they spiked "runners" with drugs for a laugh! Did not happen to me but the ex Raleigh golden boy in our team was as far as I know "charged" This despite the six day races being largely "fixed" so why dope??

 

[shawnrohrbach]

People who don't believe doping is rampant must not have competed much in sports. In my experience starting at age 15-16 in high school football there were a lot of guys who used stimulants and it just went on from there. My university strength coach was busted for being a steroid dealer. Go to any gym in the world that has free weights and you'll find people doing steroids. Hell, a lot of them will be cops.

I used to laugh in the 1980s/early 1990s when sports were considered a clean alternative to recreational drug use. Back then in the popular mind drugs were associated with musicians and subcultures like that. I remember maybe 10-12 years ago getting into an online discussion about drugs in sport with some serious drug policy type people. They were convinced I was vastly overstating the association of drugs with sport.

Nowadays, at least in the US, I think it's probably more prevalent than ever before because sports have become even more important. Plus you have more young guys juicing to get bulked up which they think makes them look good.

And the whiole problem for me is not that they do it, but that many if not most in cycling simply lie about it because it is not politically or socially correct to admit it right now, and it wouild probably cost endorsements if there was a widrespread admission. This is what perpetuates the lies, which in turn perpetuates the secrets and collusion within the walls of the club. And, the members of the club created this problem for themselves by trying to offer up to the world the fantasy that the sport was all and only about natural talent, training, correct diet and legendary courage and this training camp or that training program, albeit expensive, delivered exactly these virtuous methods of becoming a true champion. Phew, I had to spit those words out.

 

[Oldman]

And the whiole problem for me is not that they do it, but that many if not most in cycling simply lie about it because it is not politically or socially correct to admit it right now, and it wouild probably cost endorsements if there was a widrespread admission. This is what perpetuates the lies, which in turn perpetuates the secrets and collusion within the walls of the club. And, the members of the club created this problem for themselves by trying to offer up to the world the fantasy that the sport was all and only about natural talent, training, correct diet and legendary courage and this training camp or that training program, albeit expensive, delivered exactly these virtuous methods of becoming a true champion. Phew, I had to spit those words out.

It would have been tougher if you had to say "virtue", "Lance" and cycling in the same sentence; or any combination of the three.

 

[Roland Rat]

you could just say max sciandri and save the less educated from having to work it out.

Meh, I was just carrying on the theme.

You could but youd be wrong.

Darryl, this was about a different coach, not the one you were mentioning. I was just saying I wouldn't be surprised if Mr Sciandri also had a skeleton or two.

 

[blackcat]

I reckon Sciandri is Cav's fixer. Get an expert preparatore, but Sciandri is the guy who manages them, like Riis does.

 

[unsheath]

You could but youd be wrong.

Now you're just meSSing with us..

 

[davy jones]

Could not resist to join in. It is no surprise what has been said here-especially by DW. I raced in UK and abroad in the 90's. As a youngster my first intro to drugs was by a middle aged, well-meaning guy, who told me i had to dope to compete with les premiers category riders in france. I got friendly with an ex-domestique from a very famous irish pro and he told me all the good stuff to take (that would escape the dope control as well).


All exciting at the time. Even docs would sell you stuff if you asked.

many riders took amphetamines (including myself). I took them in post tour crits.

To be honest i only briefly experimented, but my conscience could not handle it in the end....my love of the sport was tarnished and i felt very low for giving my young years to a sport that was corrupt (not just in drugs but in personalities)

 

[Darryl Webster]

Darryl, this was about a different coach, not the one you were mentioning. I was just saying I wouldn't be surprised if Mr Sciandri also had a skeleton or two.

Ah, fair enough. And very likely. Sorry for being vauge peeps.
Think Fosters and youve got ya man.

Libal laws are a ****** aint they.

 

[buckwheat]

Ah, fair enough. And very likely. Sorry for being vauge peeps.
Think Fosters and youve got ya man.

Libal laws are a ****** aint they.

PM the truth to me and I'll announce that I received it via my crystal ball.

We Americans must always test our freedoms.

 

[Roland Rat]

Ah, fair enough. And very likely. Sorry for being vauge peeps.
Think Fosters and youve got ya man.

Libal laws are a ****** aint they.

On an entirely unrelated subject...

ahem.

Your mate's been awarded an OBE.

 

[Epicycle]

And the whiole problem for me is not that they do it, but that many if not most in cycling simply lie about it because it is not politically or socially correct to admit it right now, and it wouild probably cost endorsements if there was a widrespread admission. This is what perpetuates the lies, which in turn perpetuates the secrets and collusion within the walls of the club. And, the members of the club created this problem for themselves by trying to offer up to the world the fantasy that the sport was all and only about natural talent, training, correct diet and legendary courage and this training camp or that training program, albeit expensive, delivered exactly these virtuous methods of becoming a true champion. Phew, I had to spit those words out.

But how openly are they supposed to talk about it? After each victory...once they retire? The problem is there is no justifiable reason for a rider to take an EPO type drug. These drugs must be used with great care even in legitimate therapeutic settings. So when drugs like this are used in sport they are naturally going to be distributed in many ways which are illegal. Even with blood transfusions there is going to be a very large percentage of the medical community that is against riders having 5 to 20 transfusions in a season. So when you have outlaw doctors, support staff and even riders themselves performing transfusions then there will be a larger risk of something going wrong, like what happened to Manzano and I'm sure many others. It's also illegal for non-licensed people to perform transfusions in many countries.

 

[Oldman]

But how openly are they supposed to talk about it? After each victory...once they retire? The problem is there is no justifiable reason for a rider to take an EPO type drug. These drugs must be used with great care even in legitimate therapeutic settings. So when drugs like this are used in sport they are naturally going to be distributed in many ways which are illegal. Even with blood transfusions there is going to be a very large percentage of the medical community that is against riders having 5 to 20 transfusions in a season. So when you have outlaw doctors, support staff and even riders themselves performing transfusions then there will be a larger risk of something going wrong, like what happened to Manzano and I'm sure many others. It's also illegal for non-licensed people to perform transfusions in many countries.

Add to that the DS of the disgraced Italian amateur team admitting he was carrying drugs that he would administer after they got a prescription. That's like an armed robber saying he carried a gun for self defense in case a cop was going to shoot him during his robbery attempt.

 

[MacRoadie]

Add to that the DS of the disgraced Italian amateur team admitting he was carrying drugs that he would administer after they got a prescription. That's like an armed robber saying he carried a gun for self defense in case a cop was going to shoot him during his robbery attempt.

Yes, it takes quite an asute individual with tremendous foresight to have a supply of prescription medications on hand, before they're even prescribed....

 

[Hugh Januss]

Yes, it takes quite an asute individual with tremendous foresight to have a supply of prescription medications on hand, before they're even prescribed....

Well, that is why he packs one of everything.

 

[MacRoadie]

Well, that is why he packs one of everything.

Sounds like he had seven or eight of everything...like a certain Pro Tour team from last year's Tour....