FLandis Watch

[Dr. Maserati]

But why would we want a tell all book by Floyd when we could hear about it so elliquently by David Walsh, Greg LeMond and the cycling news forum clinic?

I read Floyds first book and it was hogwash.

You mean that none of the Lance fans would believe him and subject him to ridicule.....ya, I guess thats a fair point.

 

[craig1985]

FLandis was caught out with Rasmussen, Ricco, Vino, Schumacher, etc. during the three short years that the ASO decided that they would do something about doping. After the ASO management was changed at the end of 2008, the Tour and the whole sport went right back to where it was before 2006. Why should FLandis want to make himself any more of a scapegoat than he already is?

The real way forward for him would be to tell all about Postal. Just admitting that he himself doped would open himself up to further villification, and you can bet that McQuaid would make the most of it.

Genuine question, if Floyd did that, would he leave himself open to possible legal action? That photo could come in handy if he still has it.

 

[Jamsque]

Genuine question, if Floyd did that, would he leave himself open to possible legal action? That photo could come in handy if he still has it.

Lance would immediately cry havok and let slip the lawyers of war, and there is no way Landis can afford to fight that kind of legal battle, let alone win it. I'm sure he could be got on defamation or slander or libel or something.

 

[Roland Rat]

FLandis was caught out with Rasmussen, Ricco, Vino, Schumacher, etc. during the three short years that the ASO decided that they would do something about doping. After the ASO management was changed at the end of 2008, the Tour and the whole sport went right back to where it was before 2006. Why should FLandis want to make himself any more of a scapegoat than he already is?

The real way forward for him would be to tell all about Postal. Just admitting that he himself doped would open himself up to further villification, and you can bet that McQuaid would make the most of it.

So after 2005 a new era dawned with a better approach to doping by the authorites, but in 2009 the old ways left behind from 2005 returned? Hmm. Can't help but notice another theme to that timespan.

 

[DAOTEC]

Tour of Gila stage 1 =>

14 Marc De Maar (Unitedhealthcare Professional) 0:01:16
19 Floyd Landis (Ouch-Bahati Foundation Pro) 0:01:28
22 Lance Armstrong (Team Mellow Johnny's) 0:01:46
95 Tom Peterson (DZ Nuts) 0:07:35
99 Taylor Phinney (Trek Livestrong) 0:09:26
138 Jason Mccartney (Team Mellow Johnny's) 0:15:02

 

[El Oso]

Genuine question, if Floyd did that, would he leave himself open to possible legal action? That photo could come in handy if he still has it.

Action? Yes. See Lance's track record on litigation.
Liability? No
In the US it's very difficult to win a defamation case if your a public figure i.e. a celebrity. Lance would have to prove that Landis knew any statements were false or acted with disregard for the truth. Tough to prove (this is why tabloids never get sued for defamation)

 

[BroDeal]

Action? Yes. See Lance's track record on litigation.
Liability? No
In the US it's very difficult to win a defamation case if your a public figure i.e. a celebrity. Lance would have to prove that Landis knew any statements were false or acted with disregard for the truth. Tough to prove (this is why tabloids never get sued for defamation)

The first problem with suing FLandis is that he does not appear to have anything to take. He may still be paying off the $100K CAS dinged him for. He also may owe his legal defense team.

Second, it would be dangerous for Armstrong. FLandis could set up the Floyd Fairness Fund, ver. 2.0. People laughed at the version 1.0 of the FFF, but there are enough people who cannot stand Armstrong that version 2.0 would get quite a few donations.

Third, there is no way Armstrong would want any of his former teammates deposed. The SCA arbitration was a debacle for him. That arbitration centered only around Armstrong. A case that centers around the Postal/Disco team is a whole different can of worms.

J. Vaughters has admitted using dope in an Internet chat session. He has also written magazine articles and given interviews where he all but admits to doping while on Postal. Using that material any competent lawyer could rip him apart if he tried deny doping or minimize the team's support of doping. The devil is in the details, and as soon as he is forced to answer questions like where did he get his dope, how many injections did he get on Postal, who on the team encouraged him to dope, etc., he would dig a deep hole for himself and the rest of the team. The answers would all lead to additional questions and new people to be deposed.

Fourth, there is a huge risk that other team members could use the opportunity to admit what was going on. Hamilton has alluded to the desire to write a book. He is living as a pariah. He is depressed. He could decide that the best thing for his mental health is to stop living with the lies.

 

[BroDeal]

So after 2005 a new era dawned with a better approach to doping by the authorites, but in 2009 the old ways left behind from 2005 returned? Hmm. Can't help but notice another theme to that timespan.

I'm sure it was purely coincidental that the only winner to ever be caught in the act and stripped of his win happened in 2006 despite outrageously blatant doping by every winner since the early 90's. At the end of 2008 the Amaury family fired the ASO management who believed in fighting doping and ordered l'Equipe to not do investigative doping stories. That this happened at the same time the ASO made up with the UCI and negotiated with Armstrong for his return is also coincidental.

 

[Neworld]

The first problem with suing FLandis is that he does not appear to have anything to take. He may still be paying off the $100K CAS dinged him for. He also may owe his legal defense team.

Second, is that it would be dangerous for Armstrong. FLandis could set up the Floyd Fairness Fund, ver. 2.0. People laughed at the version 1.0 of the FFF, but there are enough people who cannot stand Armstrong that version 2.0 would get quite a few donations.

Third, there is no way Armstrong would want any of his former teammates deposed. The SCA arbitration was a debacle for him. That arbitration centered only around Armstrong. A case that centers around the Postal/Disco team is a whole other can of worms.

J. Vaughters has admitted using dope in an Internet chat session. He has also written magazine articles and given interviews where he all but admits to doping while on Postal. Using that material any competent lawyer could rip him apart if he tried deny doping or minimize the team's support of doping. The devil is in the details, and as soon as he is forced to answer questions like where did he get his dope, how many injections did he get on Postal, who on the team encouraged you to dope, etc., he would dig a deep hole for himself and the rest of the team. The answers would all lead to additional questions and new people to be deposed.

Fourth, there is a huge risk that other team members use the opportunity to admit what was going on. Hamilton has alluded to the desire to write a book. He is living as a pariah. He is depressed. He could decide that the best thing for his mental health is to stop living with the lies.

Bro,

Excellent idea on the FFF-II. Lets start the fund now, give it whatever name you think is appropriate. I'll make the first donation say $10,000.00 USD. I figure if everyone who rides and wonders about the 'truth' would be willing to give up the cash equivalent of 10 powerbars or gels...the Fund would grow pretty fast.

Maybe one could contact a non-for profit legal team or university that has interests in sports fairness who may help out Tyler and Floyd. If Tyler, Floyd, all the ex-teammates and support staff knew about it they may be more willing to come forward with supporting stories and details. That Dallas based insurance company (Gulf Ins) would be interested.

The flip side may also be true. The Postal/Disco? brunyeel/Lance supports could also financially support his attempt at proving once and for all if the 'unbelievable' succession of TdF wins was for legit. Clearly, all parties from the former Postal and Disco teams could testify, provide DNA samples and ancillary blood tests to prove their innocence.

Finding truth about one of the most ubiquitous cycling doping scam(s) in the last decade may just realign this beautiful but perpetually dirty sport.

NW

 

[BroDeal]

Bro,

Excellent idea on the FFF-II. Lets start the fund now, give it whatever name you think is appropriate. I'll make the first donation say $10,000.00 USD. I figure if everyone who rides and wonders about the 'truth' would be willing to give up the cash equivalent of 10 powerbars or gels...the Fund would grow pretty fast.

Maybe one could contact a non-for profit legal team or university that has interests in sports fairness who may help out Tyler and Floyd. If Tyler, Floyd, all the ex-teammates and support staff knew about it they may be more willing to come forward with supporting stories and details. That Dallas based insurance company (Gulf Ins) would be interested.

The flip side may also be true. The Postal/Disco? brunyeel/Lance supports could also financially support his attempt at proving once and for all if the 'unbelievable' succession of TdF wins was for legit. Clearly, all parties from the former Postal and Disco teams could testify, provide DNA samples and ancillary blood tests to prove their innocence.

Finding truth about one of the most ubiquitous cycling doping scam(s) in the last decade may just realign this beautiful but perpetually dirty sport.

NW

I would make a sustantial donation to a FFF, ver. 2.0. If nothing else, the legal fight would be entertaining and wuuld lead to "fun" forum discussions.

 

[mr. tibbs]

Why are Vino & Ricco already racing in Europe again, but Landis has been all but cast aside by the Pro Tour? The same thing happened with Hamilton and Sevilla, as I recall. Also Mancebo. Hell, those last two weren't even officially sanctioned, were they? I think they were in the same legal status as Valverde still is, but he never had to stop racing (except in Italy).

What is it that makes some returnees/suspects more palatable than others?

Is it b/c Vino is the Great Kazhak Hope, Valverd is, well, Valverde, and Ricco is still very young and still has a lot of good racing years ahead of him (wherein the powers that be can make a lot of $)?

FTR, I was never a Landis fan, but dude has gotten hosed.

 

[Oldman]

I'm sure it was purely coincidental that the only winner to ever be caught in the act and stripped of his win happened in 2006 despite outrageously blatant doping by every winner since the early 90's. At the end of 2008 the Amaury family fired the ASO management who believed in fighting doping and ordered l'Equipe to not do investigative doping stories. That this happened at the same time the ASO made up with the UCI and negotiated with Armstrong for his return is also coincidental.

It probably had more to do with the Texan's legacy...ASO never liked that LA commandeered the Tour for his own profit. Then along comes Landes and the French press began to howl. Poor Floyd never saw it coming.

 

[El Oso]

I would make a sustantial donation to a FFF, ver. 2.0. If nothing else, the legal fight would be entertaining and wuuld lead to "fun" forum discussions.

If Flandis thought the legal fees for the positive test were bad that would be nothing. I'm guessing Lance has much deeper pockets than USADA. ( ... and que Demand Media debate ...)

 

[craig1985]

The first problem with suing FLandis is that he does not appear to have anything to take. He may still be paying off the $100K CAS dinged him for. He also may owe his legal defense team.

Second, it would be dangerous for Armstrong. FLandis could set up the Floyd Fairness Fund, ver. 2.0. People laughed at the version 1.0 of the FFF, but there are enough people who cannot stand Armstrong that version 2.0 would get quite a few donations.

Third, there is no way Armstrong would want any of his former teammates deposed. The SCA arbitration was a debacle for him. That arbitration centered only around Armstrong. A case that centers around the Postal/Disco team is a whole different can of worms.

J. Vaughters has admitted using dope in an Internet chat session. He has also written magazine articles and given interviews where he all but admits to doping while on Postal. Using that material any competent lawyer could rip him apart if he tried deny doping or minimize the team's support of doping. The devil is in the details, and as soon as he is forced to answer questions like where did he get his dope, how many injections did he get on Postal, who on the team encouraged him to dope, etc., he would dig a deep hole for himself and the rest of the team. The answers would all lead to additional questions and new people to be deposed.

Fourth, there is a huge risk that other team members could use the opportunity to admit what was going on. Hamilton has alluded to the desire to write a book. He is living as a pariah. He is depressed. He could decide that the best thing for his mental health is to stop living with the lies.

But Tyler won't do anything until at least 2013 so he gets to keep his Gold medal, right? Still got plenty of time to write it.

 

[BroDeal]

If Flandis thought the legal fees for the positive test were bad that would be nothing. I'm guessing Lance has much deeper pockets than USADA. ( ... and que Demand Media debate ...)

FLandis is judgement proof.

The way to reveal the program at Postal would not be a general admission of doping. It would be an extremely detailed chronological account starting from when FLandis joined the team and ending with the 2006 Tour. The more detail the better.

 

[El Oso]

FLandis is judgement proof.

The way to reveal the program at Postal would not be a general admission of doping. It would be an extremely detailed chronological account starting from when FLandis joined the team and ending with the 2006 Tour. The more detail the better.

Yes, but he won't be able to pay an attorney.

 

[craig1985]

Obviously Hincapie won't say a thing, he and Armstrong are practically brothers. But Floyd should get on the phone and call up a lot of former Motorola and Postal riders and give their version of events.

 

[BroDeal]

Yes, but he won't be able to pay an attorney.

He will be able to when I and all the "haters" donate to his defense.

 

[Fred Thistle]

He will be able to when I and all the "haters" donate to his defense.

You must feel very strongly about this- or you are full of it

 

[BroDeal]

You must feel very strongly about this- or you are full of it

I spy with my little eye...

 

[DAOTEC]

Painfull

Tour of Gila - stage 2:

11. Tom Danielson (DZ Nuts 0:00:13
38. Floyd Landis (OUCH-Bahati Foundation Pro) 0:00:36
39. Burke Swindlehurst (teamgive Presented by)
45. Lance Armstrong (Team Mellow Johnny's)

GC after stage 2:

2 Tom Danielson (DZ Nuts) 0:00:27
7 David Zabriskie (DZ Nuts) 0:00:58
12 Marc De Maar (Ned) (UnitedHealthcare Professional)
20 Floyd Landis (OUCH-Bahati Foundation Pro) 0:02:08
25 Lance Armstrong (Team Mellow Johnny's) 0:02:26

 

[Barrus]

Yes, but he won't be able to pay an attorney.

You do realize that when he writes this book, the more cases are brought against him te better. Even if the book is banned, which I doubt but that's not the case, all the facts will be brought forth during the trial. Armstrong needs to prove that those allegations by Landis are rubbish, which he probably can't. But this will create even more publicity.

Anyway, for this case I'll even attempt to get into the bar association of whatever state this will come before and help Landis for free

 

[Highlander]

15 Floyd Landis (OUCH-Bahati Foundation Pro ) 0:01:51

Landis was only 1 second behind the mighty LA yesterday and actually appears to be showing some form. It's a shame that Bahati won't be in the ToC to see what he could do there.

 

[Wallace]

15 Floyd Landis (OUCH-Bahati Foundation Pro ) 0:01:51

Landis was only 1 second behind the mighty LA yesterday and actually appears to be showing some form. It's a shame that Bahati won't be in the ToC to see what he could do there.

He's in 15th place in a race with no European teams, and you think this is good? He might be doing better according to the low standards he's set for himself since his return, but he's hardly racing at the level of a serious Euro-pro. I'd use his condition wrt Lance at Gila as a measure of how badly LA is doing now, not as a measure of how strong FLandis is.

 

[r.avens]

He's in 15th place in a race with no European teams, and you think this is good? He might be doing better according to the low standards he's set for himself since his return, but he's hardly racing at the level of a serious Euro-pro. I'd use his condition wrt Lance at Gila as a measure of how badly LA is doing now, not as a measure of how strong FLandis is.

If RS/LA fare well at the tdf (and 'well' is a debatable metric: top ten, top 3, top step, pick one.) that will truly be a headscratcher for the ages.

I am banking for a pre-race 'story' that will give LA a free 'get out of the tdf quicksand' card and still be able to perpetuate the myth.

1 Second TT better than Floyd is good???