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frank interview by david millar

Jul 30, 2009
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brilliant - thanks for sharing the link

the thing that bothers/upsets me about Millar/doping in general is we'll never know if he was genuinely great or what he could do/have done.

Rides a bike beautifully IMO
 
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doxter said:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/scotland/8785907.stm

just came across this one - fascinating to hear and all rather sad.

why arent people listening - money and fame , are they really so good that deluding yourself and others is ok

Wow. thanks for the link. It is slowly unraveling it appears. To anyone who would say what Flandis did was bad for the sport, listen to that and tell me that ending what Millar describes is a bad thing.
 
Millar has shown himself to love cancer - he is jealous, washed up, has an axe to grind, bitter at the system, bitter that he is an also ran, and is only doing these interviews for the money, to pay for his doping debts.

Oy maybe he is telling the truth.............hmmmmmmmm
 
Winterfold said:
brilliant - thanks for sharing the link

the thing that bothers/upsets me about Millar/doping in general is we'll never know if he was genuinely great or what he could do/have done.

Rides a bike beautifully IMO

You assume it's been possible during this period to be "genuinely great". Guys like LeMond, Hampsten, Fignon saw their careers take a precipitous drop in the early '90's when blood boosters become SOP. Meanwhile VAMs in the major tours increased substantially, avg speeds increased, riders stopped having jours sans. Eddy Merckx once noted Axel was putting out higher powers than he had.

World-championship level in the late '80's had become second-tier in only a few years. And now this year VAMs have dropped back close to where they had been.
 
Nov 24, 2009
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Thoughtforfood said:
Wow. thanks for the link. It is slowly unraveling it appears. To anyone who would say what Flandis did was bad for the sport, listen to that and tell me that ending what Millar describes is a bad thing.

Millar says it stopped for months in 1998 and in 1999 it all kicked back off again
 

editedbymod

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Jul 11, 2010
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Big GMaC said:
Millar says it stopped for months in 1998 and in 1999 it all kicked back off again

A lot of cyclist have stated as such. But after they had their collective legs ripped out their sockets by the blue train they all started doping again.

The sea change that was Festina lasted 6 months. Apart from the French. They only tested positive for being a9rseholes. Charming.
 

Dr. Maserati

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doxter said:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/scotland/8785907.stm

just came across this one - fascinating to hear and all rather sad.

why arent people listening - money and fame , are they really so good that deluding yourself and others is ok

Thank you - as you say, rather sad. Also it compliments this other video he did last year - which was equally sad.

Some quotes:
"The hard bit is not doing it, the easy bit is doing it...... piece of piss, taking drugs, doping.....anyone can dope, its hard not doing it"
...............

The realisation I do remember very clearly lying in that prison cell was, I was about to lose everything.......everything, everything, everything. The car, my beautiful villa, money, the life............and it didn't bother me in the slightest, it didn't even bother me in the slightest....
and I was thinking, "well Jesus, what the hell have I been doing this for?" ....and I realised, that.. "Christ, well.. I got it all wrong"
 

Polish

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Mar 11, 2009
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Big GMaC said:
Millar says it stopped for months in 1998 and in 1999 it all kicked back off again

Yes, it stopped AFTER the 1998 TdF,
and started again at the BEGINNING of the 1999 TdF.

The tours in between were clean sigh.
 
hrotha said:
It's kind of depressing that 21-year-old second-year-pro David Millar knew about all that stuff. But it's interesting that he corroborates Pevenage's timeline, sort of.

I'd say all pro's would know/would've known about it.


Polish said:
Yes, it stopped AFTER the 1998 TdF,
and started again at the BEGINNING of the 1999 TdF.

The tours in between were clean sigh.

What else do you know about the state of cycling that professional cyclists don't?
 

SpartacusRox

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May 6, 2010
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Sad I agree.

Having said that, there is a constant refrain here from Millar in that it wasn't really his fault. The team were like a family to him and they brainwashed him, etc etc.

The only thing I didn't hear him say was that "I knew it was wrong, ultimately it was my decision to dope and that at 24 years of age i was to weak to say no".

He does play the victim card rather well though and managed a decent sidestep when the interviewer essentially said' 'come on you knew doping was going on, who are you trying to kid.'
 

SpartacusRox

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Polish said:
Yes, it stopped AFTER the 1998 TdF,
and started again at the BEGINNING of the 1999 TdF.

The tours in between were clean sigh.

All he is saying here is that the Festina bust put the frighteners on for a few months but by the following season it was business as normal. There is no underlying meaning to the fact it was 1999. 99 usually comes after 98.
 

flicker

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SpartacusRox said:
Sad I agree.

Having said that, there is a constant refrain here from Millar in that it wasn't really his fault. The team were like a family to him and they brainwashed him, etc etc.

The only thing I didn't hear him say was that "I knew it was wrong, ultimately it was my decision to dope and that at 24 years of age i was to weak to say no".

He does play the victim card rather well though and managed a decent sidestep when the interviewer essentially said' 'come on you knew doping was going on, who are you trying to kid.'

The guy is incredibly popular still. He must have done something right. I think for these sportsmen it is their story and their personality which attracts or repulses people as much as their palmares
He is growing on me as a person and as an athlete.
 
Mar 11, 2009
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SpartacusRox said:
Sad I agree.

Having said that, there is a constant refrain here from Millar in that it wasn't really his fault. The team were like a family to him and they brainwashed him, etc etc.

The only thing I didn't hear him say was that "I knew it was wrong, ultimately it was my decision to dope and that at 24 years of age i was to weak to say no".

He does play the victim card rather well though and managed a decent sidestep when the interviewer essentially said' 'come on you knew doping was going on, who are you trying to kid.'


That is exactly what i thought. He manages to blame everyone else..
He does not seem to really recognize that he is\was responsible for his own actions.
 
SpartacusRox said:
Sad I agree.

Having said that, there is a constant refrain here from Millar in that it wasn't really his fault. The team were like a family to him and they brainwashed him, etc etc.

The only thing I didn't hear him say was that "I knew it was wrong, ultimately it was my decision to dope and that at 24 years of age i was to weak to say no".

He does play the victim card rather well though and managed a decent sidestep when the interviewer essentially said' 'come on you knew doping was going on, who are you trying to kid.'

SpartacusRox, I don't recall previously having agreed with you, but in this case, you took the words right out of my mouth.

Millar obviously wasn't speaking to an audience that he considered cycling-savvy, because his entire lament centered on presenting himself as this teenager who was turned into a vampire-dope-freak by the system. He takes no responsibility at all for his own actions and frankly, shows a disappointing lack of genuine moral courage.

It's very easy to say that "the system" corrupted you - not least of all because it is corrupting.

But none of us were held down by Nazi frogmen and forced to dope - we all chose to, albeit for different reasons, with different motives.

And yet, who can forget Millar's disgusting, reprehensible treatment of Philippe Gaumont, who he labeled a "nutter" in a desperate bid to attack his credibility and undermine his testimony - much like Armstrong has tried to dismiss Floyd Landis as being mentally unstable.

Of course in the end, Gaumont was shown not to be a lunatic, but rather, a former rider who had doped himself without respite for his entire career, but for whatever reason didn't maintain the charade once he'd fallen into the hands of the police.

And at the same time, I understand why Millar shades the truth to suit his purposes and presents himself as the naive little lamb, led to slaughter by the evil French cycling pimps. Reminds me of that Simpsons episode, "The Crepes of Wrath."

At least Floyd Landis is being genuinely honest, and frank, when he says that he's not sorry he doped. He's sorry he lied about it, but he's not sorry for engaging in what, according to him and many others - myself included - was a de facto required protocol at the time if you wanted to keep-up w/ riders like Lance and other team leaders.
 
While he does work hard at presenting himself as a victim, which is irritating, he also manages to portray the insidious doping culture as the major problem. Doping is quite simply an integral part of the sport, an integral part of the teams functioning, an integral part of the life of a pro cyclist. Difficult not to get sucked into the vortex if you want to succeed. Many others have also talked about how doping is the norm, and how it becomes difficult to understand how it is wrong.
 
May 14, 2010
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SpartacusRox said:
Sad I agree.

Having said that, there is a constant refrain here from Millar in that it wasn't really his fault. The team were like a family to him and they brainwashed him, etc etc.

The only thing I didn't hear him say was that "I knew it was wrong, ultimately it was my decision to dope and that at 24 years of age i was to weak to say no".

He does play the victim card rather well though and managed a decent sidestep when the interviewer essentially said' 'come on you knew doping was going on, who are you trying to kid.'

Yes, yes, and yes again. Miller comes off in this interview (and generally) as a self-righteous hypocrite and a weak character. Sorry to say it. He went into cycling, as the interviewer noted, with his eyes open. I'm guessing that, like Landis, he was very ambitious and couldn't wait to dope; and then, having doped, had no problem with it. None, that is, until he got busted and found Jesus.

I'd have a lot more respect for him if he just said, "Yeah, I doped. This is a doping sport. Always has been. I didn't really think anything of it until I got busted, then I was filled with remorse. Now I'm filled with fear. I'd like to see cycling become doping free. I definitely don't want to get busted again."
 
May 15, 2009
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joe_papp said:
SpartacusRox, I don't recall previously having agreed with you, but in this case, you took the words right out of my mouth.

Millar obviously wasn't speaking to an audience that he considered cycling-savvy, because his entire lament centered on presenting himself as this teenager who was turned into a vampire-dope-freak by the system. He takes no responsibility at all for his own actions and frankly, shows a disappointing lack of genuine moral courage.

It's very easy to say that "the system" corrupted you - not least of all because it is corrupting.

But none of us were held down by Nazi frogmen and forced to dope - we all chose to, albeit for different reasons, with different motives.

And yet, who can forget Millar's disgusting, reprehensible treatment of Philippe Gaumont, who he labeled a "nutter" in a desperate bid to attack his credibility and undermine his testimony - much like Armstrong has tried to dismiss Floyd Landis as being mentally unstable.

Of course in the end, Gaumont was shown not to be a lunatic, but rather, a former rider who had doped himself without respite for his entire career, but for whatever reason didn't maintain the charade once he'd fallen into the hands of the police.

And at the same time, I understand why Millar shades the truth to suit his purposes and presents himself as the naive little lamb, led to slaughter by the evil French cycling pimps. Reminds me of that Simpsons episode, "The Crepes of Wrath."

At least Floyd Landis is being genuinely honest, and frank, when he says that he's not sorry he doped. He's sorry he lied about it, but he's not sorry for engaging in what, according to him and many others - myself included - was a de facto required protocol at the time if you wanted to keep-up w/ riders like Lance and other team leaders.

His reaction to Landis' allegations left a bad taste too... I seem to remember Millar being very chummy with a certain other American rider.

"He's reached the end of the road and I just find it disgusting," said Millar from his home training base in Girona, Spain. "He's a liar and a cheat and he has nothing left in cycling so he just wants to burn the house down.

"If he had stood up and manned up four years ago, he'd be racing the Tour de France now," Millar said. "He'd have a different book out. He'd have not lost a penny. He'd be admired by young people. He would have a different life ahead of him. He'd be in a decent mental state. He'd be sober.

"And he'd be married."


The last bit seems particularly harsh to me. I know little of Landis' marriage, but given that his ex father-in-law was one of his strongest supporters, who later killed himself, it's a subject I wouldn't use as an insult if I were a pro rider.
 
May 26, 2010
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Digger said:
Millar has shown himself to love cancer - he is jealous, washed up, has an axe to grind, bitter at the system, bitter that he is an also ran, and is only doing these interviews for the money, to pay for his doping debts.

Oy maybe he is telling the truth.............hmmmmmmmm

bbc don't pay for interviews, so i am not sure if this is sarcasm from you and you are having a go at posters?

Millar has his own agenda as do all the pros and for most it is a job from which they hope to do well at as they dont retire at 65, but they also have a responsibility to it to make sure it is a healthy sport for the next generation and the fans get an honest performance from the participants.

Millars debts are tied into Garmin if i remember correctly and he is part owner of the team with Vaughters.

RhodriM said:
"He's reached the end of the road and I just find it disgusting," said Millar from his home training base in Girona, Spain. "He's a liar and a cheat and he has nothing left in cycling so he just wants to burn the house down.


i think Millar fails to understand that if the omerta persists, with help from all the riders including so called clean ones like him, it has to be burnt down.

This statement shows that Millar is more part of the Omerta than not....

it is about time CN or other Cycling publications organised interviews with a top rider and journalist in front of a cycling audience where the fans get to put the difficult questions. And make it public who they wish to interview. Never happen. Not a smart commercial move:(
 
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SpartacusRox said:
Sad I agree.

Having said that, there is a constant refrain here from Millar in that it wasn't really his fault. The team were like a family to him and they brainwashed him, etc etc.

The only thing I didn't hear him say was that "I knew it was wrong, ultimately it was my decision to dope and that at 24 years of age i was to weak to say no".

He does play the victim card rather well though and managed a decent sidestep when the interviewer essentially said' 'come on you knew doping was going on, who are you trying to kid.'

I agree completely. I kept expecting him at some point to say that he recognized that he was responsible for his actions.
 
Jun 12, 2010
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I thought he interviewed "honest" in as much he seems to believe the system , though not clean yet , will , perhaps one day be. In the mean time he`s a lot invested in it so he`s a carefull balancing act to do of the "reformed doper" and staying on side with the "dark side"...it isnt difficult for teams or even groups of team to destroy a reputation in the peloton and make racing intollerable. In other words honest to his position.
A rider that rides clean was viewed( is?) within the peloton with suspition ( "what if they talk?")...but if seen to be keeping there mouth shut can still be accepted. A sanctioned doper who sings like a Canery has no way back.
His manner was very measured and his words chosen with care. Relaxed but not of guard.
In his shoes I supect , with so much personaly at stake, I think many of would be much the same.
 
yup...good interview

i think that whilst it was rather deflecting in the blame game...he does have a point

probably 100% of the the peleton if asked when 16 if they would dope would say no...and i would probably believe them

and yet

a figure close to that probably ends up doping, or at least did end up doping during the epo years.

Something happens to them...its what they do

call it culture/pressure/self interetsed monetary gain...something systemic happens and that needs to be addressed

i.e. if you were a pro...you would probably dope....despite your denials at the moment
 

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