French cycling

[yaco]

Re: Re:

Think the promising French GC riders should ride for non-French teams - Because of the importance of La Tour, they don't progress through the Giro and Vuelta as part of their progression - Riders like Bardet and Pinot should be developing their craft in the Giro and the Vuelta like nearly all TDF winners.

I wouldn't say that "nearly all TDF winners" have developed their craft in the Giro and the Vuelta. Looking at the winners of the last 10 years:

2006: Pereiro
2007: Contador
2008: Sastre
2009: Contador
2010: Contador
2011: Evans
2012: Wiggins
2013: Froome
2014: Nibali
2015: Froome

I'd say that it's mainly just Sastre and Nibali that have developed into the GC riders they are/were through the Giro and Vuelta. Going further back, I'd say we have to go all the way back to 1988 to find the last TDF winner who developed through the Vuelta/Giro.

What - The only one in that list who doesn't fir the profile is Wiggins - Don't forget we are discussing French riders who have never ridden the Vuelta or the Giro - They are not given the chance to develop their craft in other grand tours.

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Re: Re:

Think the promising French GC riders should ride for non-French teams - Because of the importance of La Tour, they don't progress through the Giro and Vuelta as part of their progression - Riders like Bardet and Pinot should be developing their craft in the Giro and the Vuelta like nearly all TDF winners.

I wouldn't say that "nearly all TDF winners" have developed their craft in the Giro and the Vuelta. Looking at the winners of the last 10 years:

2006: Pereiro
2007: Contador
2008: Sastre
2009: Contador
2010: Contador
2011: Evans
2012: Wiggins
2013: Froome
2014: Nibali
2015: Froome

I'd say that it's mainly just Sastre and Nibali that have developed into the GC riders they are/were through the Giro and Vuelta. Going further back, I'd say we have to go all the way back to 1988 to find the last TDF winner who developed through the Vuelta/Giro.

What - The only one in that list who doesn't fir the profile is Wiggins - Don't forget we are discussing French riders who have never ridden the Vuelta or the Giro - They are not given the chance to develop their craft in other grand tours.

I guess we have different understandings of "developing their craft" then. Anyway, if we go by your understanding, Pinot no longer fits the bill then as he has done the Vuelta.

 

[Tonton]

True, but I think yaco means that the French riders should go about it Aru-style, go Giro-Vuelta, get a couple of podiums, maybe a win, building up to be legitimate favorites for the TdF. And I agree. I hope to see Pinot do not just the Giro in '17 (which is pretty much set in stone), but the Vuelta as well. Bardet should do the same. Tough sell for the French public, the sponsors, et caetera...

 

[Valv.Piti]

True, but I think yaco means that the French riders should go about it Aru-style, go Giro-Vuelta, get a couple of podiums, maybe a win, building up to be legitimate favorites for the TdF. And I agree. I hope to see Pinot do not just the Giro in '17 (which is pretty much set in stone), but the Vuelta as well. Bardet should do the same. Tough sell for the French public, the sponsors, et caetera...

But if everyone does that, that means you suddenly will have bigger chance for doing good in France compared to Italy

 

[armchairclimber]

There's a great new generation coming, and they may develop in the Bardet/Pinot shadow, and blossom. I remember that French TV discussion before last year's TdF: "can Pinot win the Tour?" And I see something similar to what happened in Belgium, the search for the new Eddy, the pressure that destroyed guys like Fons De Wolf: the hype, the "circus" as Tibopino calls it. In France, it's all about the Tour and who the next Badger is.

Also, cycling has lost a lot of its popularity in France: blame winning the World Cup in '98 for many kids going to soccer instead. Blame the economy, the cost of equipment, for parents reluctant to invest their money in a $1000 bike when cycling is also seen as dirty. Blame the disdain from a certain Parisian elite, that makes cycling look "ringard" (kind of lame, not modern): not glamorous enough. All things that are not exclusive to France, by the way, but the cocktail is toxic. A few regions provide most of the talent: elsewhere, cycling struggles. I'll finish my rant with one of my "favorite" themes: bring the Tour to the people. Many places never see the route. Make more kids dream

On a positive note, yes, there's a renaissance. Pinot/Bardet, but also Nacer/Demare, the explosive trio Vuillermoz/Alaphilippe/Gallopin, Barguil, Gougeard, and all the kids coming onto the scene. I love that.

Maybe add Elie Gesbert at the really young end.

 

[Hugo Koblet]

True, but I think yaco means that the French riders should go about it Aru-style, go Giro-Vuelta, get a couple of podiums, maybe a win, building up to be legitimate favorites for the TdF. And I agree. I hope to see Pinot do not just the Giro in '17 (which is pretty much set in stone), but the Vuelta as well. Bardet should do the same. Tough sell for the French public, the sponsors, et caetera...

Well.. That's my understanding. But take a look at the palmares of the riders I've listed and you'll see that very few of those actually took the "Aru approach". That's why I commented on yaco's post in the first case.

 

[Tonton]

True, but I think yaco means that the French riders should go about it Aru-style, go Giro-Vuelta, get a couple of podiums, maybe a win, building up to be legitimate favorites for the TdF. And I agree. I hope to see Pinot do not just the Giro in '17 (which is pretty much set in stone), but the Vuelta as well. Bardet should do the same. Tough sell for the French public, the sponsors, et caetera...

But if everyone does that, that means you suddenly will have bigger chance for doing good in France compared to Italy

So true!

And the Giro '17 could sell its grand depart, say a couple of stages, to French cities for a king's ransom, so the French public can get to see Pinot and Bardet.

 

[yaco]

True, but I think yaco means that the French riders should go about it Aru-style, go Giro-Vuelta, get a couple of podiums, maybe a win, building up to be legitimate favorites for the TdF. And I agree. I hope to see Pinot do not just the Giro in '17 (which is pretty much set in stone), but the Vuelta as well. Bardet should do the same. Tough sell for the French public, the sponsors, et caetera...

Well.. That's my understanding. But take a look at the palmares of the riders I've listed and you'll see that very few of those actually took the "Aru approach". That's why I commented on yaco's post in the first case.

My post discussed how young French GC riders are pushed into a leaders role too early in their career,because the public and sponsors, are desperate for a French winner of the TDF - Let these riders develop their craft in the Giro or the Vuelta - Few young French GC guys ride the Giro or Vuelta, especially not as a leader.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re: Re:

Armstrong was
Not sure when Indurain got his Vuelta top 10.

7th in 1990, 2nd in 1991.

And both were while the Vuelta was in April so precede his first Tour win. In the 1991 Vuelta he even watched as ONCE set what became the Miguelón template, as Mauri won both TTs and forced Indurain to try to chase him down in the mountains, which he probably would have done had the Baqueira stage not been cancelled, as Mauri was struggling in the Pyrenees. He recovered his form when they got to the Asturian mountains and protected his lead from there on in.

Tonton - 2017 is the 100th Giro. No way in hell they do a foreign départ but we may see a stage head onto French soil to honour an iconic Italian cycling moment, my money being on either 1949 Coppi or 1998 Pantani.

 

[Tonton]

The 2017 thing was a joke, a sarcasm with the Giro doing to France what the TdF does to other countries...

Tribute stage in France? Briancon-Aosta '49 as stage 17?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I am always in favour of more Aosta.

 

[jaylew]

On a positive note, yes, there's a renaissance. Pinot/Bardet, but also Nacer/Demare, the explosive trio Vuillermoz/Alaphilippe/Gallopin, Barguil, Gougeard, and all the kids coming onto the scene. I love that.

I'd put Coquard in there instead of Démare, who I think is a bit overrated.

 

[roundabout]

Maybe Coquard should win a WT race (any will do) first before putting him ahead of the "overrated" Demare?

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Re:

Maybe Coquard should win a WT race (any will do) first before putting him ahead of the "overrated" Demare?

To be fair, Demare's last WT win was back in 2013. A lot can happen in 2-3 years.

 

[Tonton]

Re: Re:

Maybe Coquard should win a WT race (any will do) first before putting him ahead of the "overrated" Demare?

To be fair, Demare's last WT win was back in 2013. A lot can happen in 2-3 years.

??? He won a bunch in '14, even got two stage wins at the Tour de Belgique in '15...

 

[Alexandre B.]

Re: Re:

Maybe Coquard should win a WT race (any will do) first before putting him ahead of the "overrated" Demare?

To be fair, Demare's last WT win was back in 2013. A lot can happen in 2-3 years.

??? He won a bunch in '14, even got two stage wins at the Tour de Belgique in '15...

It's not World Tour.

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Re: Re:

Maybe Coquard should win a WT race (any will do) first before putting him ahead of the "overrated" Demare?

To be fair, Demare's last WT win was back in 2013. A lot can happen in 2-3 years.

??? He won a bunch in '14, even got two stage wins at the Tour de Belgique in '15...

Those are not WT races.

 

[jaylew]

Re: Re:

Maybe Coquard should win a WT race (any will do) first before putting him ahead of the "overrated" Demare?

To be fair, Demare's last WT win was back in 2013. A lot can happen in 2-3 years.

??? He won a bunch in '14, even got two stage wins at the Tour de Belgique in '15...

None of those were WT. Coquard does need to win on that level which I think would be easier if he were on a stronger team.

Edit: beaten to it twice

 

[Tonton]

My Bad: not WT races, but big races. Much bigger than anything Coquard has ever won...

 

[Alexandre B.]

First monument since 1997.

 

[Tonton]

hehehehe the sweet perfume of victory nice win for Coquard or was it Demare ?

Nice to see Arnaud perform to his potential.

 

[Alexandre B.]

Fair and square!

 

[JRanton]

Re:

First monument since 1997.

That's a crazy stat. The French have really started to recover in the last few years. A really nice group of talent: Pinot, Bardet, Barguil, Demare, Bouhanni, Gallopin, Coquard, Alaphilippe, Vuillermoz and even younger guys like Latour and Gougeard.

Pinot and Alaphilippe already went close last year of course with podiums so the win was likely to come soon.

Hopefully Pinot can have a really good Tour GC this year and then maybe the Frenchies on the side of the road won't be so rude to the best rider in the race (Froome).

 

[JRanton]

hehehehe the sweet perfume of victory nice win for Coquard or was it Demare ?

Nice to see Arnaud perform to his potential.

Yeah, I'm pleased for Demare. He had a really rough 2015 but based on his first 3 years as a pro this progression to San Remo winner is entirely expected (2nd at Gent Wevelgem at just 22 years old).

 

[CheckMyPecs]

Re: Re:

Hopefully Pinot can have a really good Tour GC this year and then maybe the Frenchies on the side of the road won't be so rude to the best rider in the race (Froome).

Give it just over a decade and half the French population will have been born after their last TDF victory. Can they win a Tour before then? Who knows, but I'll eat my hat if they win this year's one.