From a doping point of view, what do you expect Froom in the vuelta?

[Lanark]

that is the thing I am trying to figure out here? Will a fantastic performance in the vuelta(like podium) be a good evidence of doping, or is it the other way around that good result in the vuelta actually indicate he might be clean.

To be honest, I don't think it matters either way. His incredible and virtually unseen performance jump in the 2011 Vuelta and 2012 Tour are enough to be highly suspicious of the guy. Whether he rides a good or bad Vuelta doesn't take anything away from that, and both results are probably compatible with either a clean or doped rider.

 

[Fergoose]

As others say, hard to undo what has gone before. But talking hypotheticals if he tries to launch an attack on a climb but fails against riders who aren’t as suspicious as Cobo & Contador then that is a good sign. But only if ultimately he has to settle for the outer fringes of the top 10 on GC. Then you could do mental gymnastics and try and convince yourself he is a topflight athletic specimen who was a little bit drained from TdF & Olympics.

If he disappears out of the top 15 or podiums anywhere near Cobo & Contador then from my personal perspective that only confirms suspicions.

I fully expect Froome to win this quite comfortably unless Cobo has found a better doping package since last year or Contador feels confident enough to push the boat out with his preparations given that the race is on home soil where leading politicians defend him to the hilt. It’s all very hard to predict when you are confident you aren’t comparing anything like pure athletic specimens. Those three have the potential to make the rest of the field look like children (or relatively clean).

Froome’s saying the Olympics hampered preparation but then he also says the Vuelta has been his focus in 2012 – I think he’s very confident he can keep this level going. Plus, I seriously doubt he was anywhere near his limit on any stage on the TdF except the ITT, which has to count in his favour. This will be the first time Froome has ridden as team leader which should save him a lot of energy. Plus he has Porte & Uran which isn’t a great support, but is possibly better than his rivals. Basically, I don’t think he has to be as superhuman as he was in the 2011 Vuelta (joint best climber plus domestique) to pull off a win here.

 

[the big ring]

Cobo is claiming tooth ache for his lack of form so far. If it persists as long as P Gilbert's poor form this year due to the same infected tooth issue, he will not be a contender.

 

[argyllflyer]

Even if Froome was a talented rider it would be highly suspicious if he could keep the year long peak going.

Year long peak? His season was a write-off up to the Dauphine in June.

 

[will10]

What year long peak? I really can't remember any half-decent result from Froome before the dauphiné.

Wiggins, Rogers, Porte five month peak: Algarve, Paris Nice, Romandie, Dauphine, Tour, Olympics.

Froome's mega-peak started later but should encompass Dauphine, Tour, Olympics, Vuelta, Worlds & Lombardia.

 

[Avoriaz]

Although I think Froome's results so far are almost completely due to doping, I don't expect much from him this Vuelta. He was great from the Dauphiné to the Olympics, I don't see how he could extend that to the Vuelta (even with doping).

Of course, the Sky-defenders will probably abuse this and shout 'see, he's clean after all, haha, if he was doping like you all say, why wouldn't he do better?'

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?p=973371#post973371

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

AC also had year long peaks (ok, he was doped, but i am not saying Sky/Froome is clean anyway).

OTOH, Pharmstrong & Ullrich had a month peak per year.

So wat does a Froome Vuelta win by 5 minutes over AC say? Nothing, but that AC might be feared finally. He may realized that he can get away with proven doping once (Puerto), twice (steak/blood doping), but not trice (steak/clen).

 

[roundabout]

I expect him to pass every doping test.

 

[No_Balls]

i just don't get why comparisons with contadope are still used.

Two things really: he is the main reference for whatever reasons (you said it even yourself: contadope) and he is, on his day, the best rider in the world. If this per default means "best doper" in the world then i dont understand why Froome should´nt be suscipious as them (Sky) seems to be on a comparable program.

we have absolutely zero -- zero --idea how good contadope is for real. every single one of his performances to date have been aided by blood doping.

We have absolutely a very good idea of how good Contador is. Giro 2011 for instance. And then we could take a look at his results during younger years and compare them with Froomes. While the first person seems to be an talent from the get go the other had a phoenix-rise to stardom in the space of a couple of months.

given that -- how can comparisons with contadope tell us anything at all?

Is this perhaps a smokescreen to clear your boy?

when serial dopers continue to be treated as champions with natural talent (see Vino, see Armstrong, see Valverde) we only give riders one more reason to dope...

Eh, doping is supposed to be illegal and against the rules so how could this be "a reason" to begin with?

 

[hrotha]

For the record, even if you're doped to the gills you might still fail at the Vuelta because you're too tired from the Tour, haven't peaked properly or any other reasons. Doping is not the only factor involved.

 

[Altitude]

Despite all these sarcastic comments about how good Froome will be in the Vuelta, the reality is that he will probably be tired from the Tour and will either do well in the first week, hold on near the end and get possible top 5, or fail completely.

You underestimate the power of a top drawer doping program.

 

[Avoriaz]

I'm lazy. Anyone seen a Movistar thread?

 

[thehog]

I'm lazy. Anyone seen a Movistar thread?

Not sure. This is the Froome thread. You'll find Valverde & Cobo threads - is that what you're looking for?

 

[Avoriaz]

Not sure. This is the Froome thread. You'll find Valverde & Cobo threads - is that what you're looking for?

Touche. Like I said I'm lazy. Nothing current.

 

[Altitude]

Touche. Like I said I'm lazy. Nothing current.

You won't find much - everyone here assumes Cobo is doping (which is correct). The only reason there are so many Froome/Wiggins threads is because there's a legion of people who think that white people who speak english are less likely to dope. Therefore much discussion on the subject of Sky.

 

[iZnoGouD]

only Machado is clean

 

[Big Doopie]

We have absolutely a very good idea of how good Contador is. Giro 2011 for instance.

beg to differ. do you think contador was actually clean at the giro 2011. if so, why the hell did he ever dope, if he could do that clean?

Is this perhaps a smokescreen to clear your boy?

who would that be? i am in no way defending froome. i have absolutely no idea if he dopes. but to compare his performance to contador's doesn't show anything, frankly.

Eh, doping is supposed to be illegal and against the rules so how could this be "a reason" to begin with?

if riders obtain glory through doping and -- even after being caught -- their original doped performances are still considered evidence of their "greatness". then, absolutely, yes, this would be a reason to dope -- personal glory is then assured if you dope, even if you get caught.

 

[hfer07]

Difficult to estimate how "effective" his doping regimen will work on him, since the circumstances around are different-for example, having already ridden the tour & not knowing how his "fitness" will respond with such load on his legs-then is the "physical" response to get a "second peak" in such short time-& last-how is his body going to respond to a challenge imposed by an exceptional contender like Contador when the attacks come.....

Yates claimed the other day that Sky is going to 'replicate" somewhat the tour Formula in Spain-but he's forgetting who's Froome riding against this time around....

 

[jamiephillips]

Doping aside, it'll be interesting to see how Froome copes with the pressure involved in team leadership. Something he's not experienced up till now.

 

[the big ring]

i just don't get why comparisons with contadope are still used.

we have absolutely zero -- zero --idea how good contadope is for real. every single one of his performances to date have been aided by blood doping.

But if we give Ashended access to his current blood values, we can find out how well assisted he is, given

Because Contador had previously applied to the UCI for an exemption for high haematocrit, during 2006 he had spent several days at the Lausanne antidoping laboratory who collected some very carefully controlled blood tests. Those data were obviously considered to be reliable - Contador had been granted an exemption based on the validity of those data thus it would be very difficult for him to turn around and suggest those data could not be relied upon.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/ashenden-speaks-out-on-leaving-biological-passport-panel

 

[SafeBet]

Anything more than a top5 will be a clear sign he's on the juice big time.

 

[LaFlorecita]

i just don't get why comparisons with contadope are still used.

we have absolutely zero -- zero --idea how good contadope is for real. every single one of his performances to date have been aided by blood doping.

given that -- how can comparisons with contadope tell us anything at all?

when serial dopers continue to be treated as champions with natural talent (see Vino, see Armstrong, see Valverde) we only give riders one more reason to dope...

Hater

 

[LaFlorecita]

You won't find much - everyone here assumes Cobo is doping (which is correct). The only reason there are so many Froome/Wiggins threads is because there's a legion of people who think that white people who speak english are less likely to dope. Therefore much discussion on the subject of Sky.

Why the white people bit?

 

[ebandit]

Hater

Hater

I Agree We should Hate those Who Cheat to Win...or Hate the Pressures that encourage Athletes to do so

I have No Hatred for Contador He has Paid His Due.............I will Cheer Him on if He Rides Well..............I expect to be Cheering later in this Vuelta!

as to Chris Froome I will be amaZed if He has Recovered sufficiently to Challenge for the Vuelta Win
if He does Win He Must be 'Well Prepared'

it's going to be the Most Open Grand Tour for some Years

 

[Big Doopie]

Hater

sorry again, LaFlorecita.