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Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

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Mar 7, 2017
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Re: Re:

Eyeballs Out said:
Wiggo's Package said:
brownbobby said:
Wiggo's Package said:
Froome has two ways to dodge a ban

The second and last resort is to go into the UCI lab and try to replicate the elevated output with a legal input. Good luck with that, Chris :D

Prior to that Froome's lawyer will be trying every trick in the book to get him off on a legal/procedural technicality. Bear in mind the same lawyer got Armitstead off by challenging every aspect of all 3 of her missed whereabouts tests (he got lucky when CAS went with 1 of his many lines of attack). And the same lawyer had Liverpool football player Mamadou Sahko's ban lifted by persuading UEFA to drop the fat burning drug Sahko had taken from the banned list (that's a nice trick if you can pull it)

A complicating factor for Froome is the suggestion in Walsh's second article in yesterday's ST which say that Brailsford is hanging Froome out to dry over the salbutamol bust to retaliate for Froome's lack of support over the Wiggo TUE/jiffybag sagas, including that Sky are refusing to fund Froome's defence (remember Sky also refused to fund JTL's defence). Which is odd given Froome's initial "just following the team doctor's orders" defence and that if Froome goes down then Sky will most likely fold. But Brailsford has a thing for irrational decision making at key moments eh

In the meantime if Froome is funding his own "leave no stone un-turned" defence then things will get expensive very quickly. Especially Froome is banned and inevitably appeals to CAS

Really? I didnt see that...if true then that is a very significant development indeed.

Although my guess, based on events in the Walt Disney boardroom and completely aside from the whole Froome saga, is that they only have a limited amount of funding now to see them through to 2020 (at best). After that, they need to fend for themselves.

So yes, a multi million pound legal process may not be something they want to contemplate.

Have you read the article? This is the quote: "A source within the team claimed it would be presumptuous to believe that Team Sky were funding Froome's defence. Officially, the team refuses to say"
That's a long way from confirming that Sky are hanging Froome out to dry. And the fact that Walsh wrote it makes me more inclined to believe the opposite is true

Fair enough. You could be right. Walsh clearly has his own agenda. Which presumably involves saving what's left of his tattered reputation

But he still appears to have sources within Team Sky presumably from his period embedded with the team ahead of writing that dreadful Inside Team Sky book. And it appears that (much too late) he's now speaking to those contacts

FWIW here's another quote from yesterday's ST article:

"Brailsford has not gone beyond his matter of fact support for Froome in his [initial] statement. Within the team there is the sense that since last year's controversies with Wiggins, the TUEs and the infamous "jiffy bag", Brailsford's relationship with his number one rider has been nothing more than businesslike. Froome did not support him back then and now there's a sense of payback"

Nest of vipers!
 
Re:

CTQ said:
https://twitter.com/veloropa/status/942689428597886976 In this conversation, Notification of A September 20th and B unknown , between September 20 and December 13. I suppose that You must wait the result of B before starting your procedures to explain why theses results

If someone working for me was alerted to a problem and did nothing about it until after we were 100% sure there was a problem some weeks later, they'd be shown the door. What you're suggesting makes no sense in any business, particularly when the problem has the potential to take down the entire organization.

This argument has no merit whatsoever.
 
Re: Re:

masking_agent said:
thehog said:
masking_agent said:
where does the blood bag come into play as the prevailing theory ? I thought the UCI could detect blood bag usage ?


And how might they do that? :rolleyes:

I thought they had a test that shows the blood being was being infected by bacteria from the bag, and/or plasticizers , therefore catching the athlete

No. They don’t have a plasticizer test. Those tests do exist in some forms but are considered unreliable and have not been approved.
 
Re: Re:

thehog said:
masking_agent said:
thehog said:
masking_agent said:
where does the blood bag come into play as the prevailing theory ? I thought the UCI could detect blood bag usage ?


And how might they do that? :rolleyes:

I thought they had a test that shows the blood being was being infected by bacteria from the bag, and/or plasticizers , therefore catching the athlete

No. They don’t have a plasticizer test. Those tests do exist in some forms but are considered unreliable and have not been approved.

ahhh.. I see.. so its blood bag business as usual then similar to what Tyler Hamilton exposed..
 
Re: Re:

thehog said:
masking_agent said:
thehog said:
masking_agent said:
where does the blood bag come into play as the prevailing theory ? I thought the UCI could detect blood bag usage ?


And how might they do that? :rolleyes:

I thought they had a test that shows the blood being was being infected by bacteria from the bag, and/or plasticizers , therefore catching the athlete

No. They don’t have a plasticizer test. Those tests do exist in some forms but are considered unreliable and have not been approved.

So any guess on how many blood bags do these guys have frozen or at their disposal to use upon any GT ?
 
UCI clarifications concerning anti-doping proceedings:
http://www.uci.ch/pressreleases/clarifications-from-the-uci-concerning-anti-doping-proceedings/

"In cases where there is no provisional suspension, the UCI issues a press release only if the UCI Anti-Doping Tribunal finds that the rider has committed an Anti-Doping Rule Violation. If the UCI Anti-Doping Tribunal acquits the rider, the latter has a right to ask that the decision is not publicly disclosed. If the existence of the Adverse Analytical Finding is made public by another party before the UCI Anti-Doping Tribunal renders its decision, the UCI issues a short statement confirming the existence of the Adverse Analytical Finding, the substance that was found and clarifying that the rider is not provisionally suspended."

As we all know the Froome AAF "leaked" to the press, Sky probably had, maybe still have good connections at all levels of anti-doping so they thought they will win the case and nobody would find out. I wonder how many Sky AAF's were under Crookson? Maybe this happened before that is why Brailsfraud and Frumi weren't too concerned and went on with the double plan. Now that the issue became public and the world just found out that Dawg is a cheat they can't quite go back and suspend him. It will just justify that Froome might really be a cheat. So they have to go full genius all the way.
 
Re:

Red Rick said:
So who decides what happens next? Who decides if there's further investigation, charges or not. The UCI seems very unwilling to do ****

The procedures are in the link I posted above.

Upon notification, the rider can ask for his/her B sample to be analysed. If the B sample analysis confirms the result of the A sample, or if the rider does not request the opening of the B sample, the LADS gives the rider the opportunity to provide an explanation for the Adverse Analytical Finding. The LADS will then open disciplinary proceedings and offer the rider an “Acceptance of Consequences” taking into account the rider’s explanations, if any. If the rider refuses the Acceptance of Consequences, the matter is referred to the UCI Anti-Doping Tribunal for adjudication.
 
Re:

red_flanders said:
So if I'm reading this correctly, AAF's happen all the time without public knowledge (if defended successfully) and the only reason we're hearing about this one is the leak. Is that about right?


Correct. I think this one was destined to be dealt with by the normal channels and Dawg would be now preparing for his assault on the Giro/Tour double.
 
Feb 23, 2011
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Re:

red_flanders said:
Rollthedice said:
That is also my understanding from those clarifications.

Good find, dice. Thanks for posting.

I guess then the obvious thing is to wonder how many times this sort of thing has been swept under the carpet already. Or what the rate is...both the "going rate" and the "rate of dismissal".

CF: Michelle call up Dave and find out how much Brian wants to make this go away.

some time later

MF: Chris I have some bad news, because Brian didn't bung enough people to retain his presidency he can't keep up his side of the deal any more, and the press are threatening to reveal your AAF - you are in deep ***.

Chris are you alright?

CF: Pass me my asthma pump will you shells I am feeling a bit short of breath........

In next weeks installment of shells and Chris, the lovebirds meet Rupert Murdoch
 
Dec 13, 2017
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Re: Re:

"So any guess on how many blood bags do these guys have frozen or at their disposal to use upon any GT ?"

Here is my guess ZERO !

Actually it is not a guess, it is fact, for the following reason. If you freeze whole blood or concentrated red cells, the cells expand then lyse (burst). The concentration of potassium inside a red blood cell is approximately 100mmol/L in contrast to blood plasma potassium of 3.4 to 5.0mmol/L.
The effect of transfusing one unit of 500mL of such thawed blood would be to raise the blood potassium level of the transfuser by about 7mmol/L making a new concentration of around 11mmol/L.
There is a risk of death from cardiac arrest above about 6.5mmol/L, and 11.0 is certainly not compatible with life.
Also the haemoglobin released from the bursting red cells would seriously f**k up your kidneys.
Don't believe everything you read about blood doping.
 
Re:

Rollthedice said:
UCI clarifications concerning anti-doping proceedings:
http://www.uci.ch/pressreleases/clarifications-from-the-uci-concerning-anti-doping-proceedings/

"In cases where there is no provisional suspension, the UCI issues a press release only if the UCI Anti-Doping Tribunal finds that the rider has committed an Anti-Doping Rule Violation. If the UCI Anti-Doping Tribunal acquits the rider, the latter has a right to ask that the decision is not publicly disclosed. If the existence of the Adverse Analytical Finding is made public by another party before the UCI Anti-Doping Tribunal renders its decision, the UCI issues a short statement confirming the existence of the Adverse Analytical Finding, the substance that was found and clarifying that the rider is not provisionally suspended."

As we all know the Froome AAF "leaked" to the press, Sky probably had, maybe still have good connections at all levels of anti-doping so they thought they will win the case and nobody would find out. I wonder how many Sky AAF's were under Crookson? Maybe this happened before that is why Brailsfraud and Frumi weren't too concerned and went on with the double plan. Now that the issue became public and the world just found out that Dawg is a cheat they can't quite go back and suspend him. It will just justify that Froome might really be a cheat. So they have to go full genius all the way.

hmmm very interesting read. so what we have here is the opposite of a cover up.

Something that should have stayed private has been leaked to the press.

So, who had the motivation to do this? UCI (new president just taken office)?

Sky insider with a grudge.

Who else is in the frame?
 
Jul 11, 2013
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Re:

red_flanders said:
Rollthedice said:
That is also my understanding from those clarifications.

Good find, dice. Thanks for posting.

I guess then the obvious thing is to wonder how many times this sort of thing has been swept under the carpet already. Or what the rate is...both the "going rate" and the "rate of dismissal".

I am pretty sure Froome is on record recently saying this was his first AAF notifcation.
So assuming that is true, then it doesn't have any bearing in regards to Froomes case.

Unless he is lying of course. Or that his interpretation of an AAF notifcation is one that isn't solved quietly.
 
Re: Re:

mrhender said:
red_flanders said:
Rollthedice said:
That is also my understanding from those clarifications.

Good find, dice. Thanks for posting.

I guess then the obvious thing is to wonder how many times this sort of thing has been swept under the carpet already. Or what the rate is...both the "going rate" and the "rate of dismissal".

I am pretty sure Froome is on record recently saying this was his first AAF notifcation.
So assuming that is true, then it doesn't have any bearing in regards to Froomes case.

Unless he is lying of course. Or that his interpretation of an AAF notifcation is one that isn't solved quietly.

He also said he has asthma since childhood. Never mentioned before caught on camera puffing in 2014.
 
Jul 11, 2013
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Re: Re:

brownbobby said:
Rollthedice said:
UCI clarifications concerning anti-doping proceedings:
http://www.uci.ch/pressreleases/clarifications-from-the-uci-concerning-anti-doping-proceedings/

"In cases where there is no provisional suspension, the UCI issues a press release only if the UCI Anti-Doping Tribunal finds that the rider has committed an Anti-Doping Rule Violation. If the UCI Anti-Doping Tribunal acquits the rider, the latter has a right to ask that the decision is not publicly disclosed. If the existence of the Adverse Analytical Finding is made public by another party before the UCI Anti-Doping Tribunal renders its decision, the UCI issues a short statement confirming the existence of the Adverse Analytical Finding, the substance that was found and clarifying that the rider is not provisionally suspended."

As we all know the Froome AAF "leaked" to the press, Sky probably had, maybe still have good connections at all levels of anti-doping so they thought they will win the case and nobody would find out. I wonder how many Sky AAF's were under Crookson? Maybe this happened before that is why Brailsfraud and Frumi weren't too concerned and went on with the double plan. Now that the issue became public and the world just found out that Dawg is a cheat they can't quite go back and suspend him. It will just justify that Froome might really be a cheat. So they have to go full genius all the way.

hmmm very interesting read. so what we have here is the opposite of a cover up.

Something that should have stayed private has been leaked to the press.

So, who had the motivation to do this? UCI (new president just taken office)?

Sky insider with a grudge.

Who else is in the frame?

Just shows how the system is made to be manipulated and controlled.

Sure you can argue, as to protect riders reputation and commercial value aaf's shouldnt be published when discovered.

But then again, after all the water under the bridge, in Regards to trust in UCI and other governing bodies.

Is it the best approach?

It is probably a loose/loose situation. But only when cases like this are brought to light, you get the paradox on display.

The uci foundation is in a more or less scandal-free sport. They live by promoting the sport, not busting cheaters.
 
Re: Re:

Rollthedice said:
mrhender said:
red_flanders said:
Rollthedice said:
That is also my understanding from those clarifications.

Good find, dice. Thanks for posting.

I guess then the obvious thing is to wonder how many times this sort of thing has been swept under the carpet already. Or what the rate is...both the "going rate" and the "rate of dismissal".

I am pretty sure Froome is on record recently saying this was his first AAF notifcation.
So assuming that is true, then it doesn't have any bearing in regards to Froomes case.

Unless he is lying of course. Or that his interpretation of an AAF notifcation is one that isn't solved quietly.

He also said he has asthma since childhood. Never mentioned before caught on camera puffing in 2014.

And if he needed that amount of Ventolin, like most non elite athletes, he would either be in hospital or at least not competing. Ventolin use at that level ceases to be effective and you need multiple drugs and methods to control the asthma attack. If Froome was having an actually asthma attack as opposed to prolonged wheezing or worse than usual wheezing he wouldn't be racing at all in that condition let alone walking around the block.