Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[ferryman]

Re: Re:

Froome looking vulnerable in all kinds of terrain. Wondering if we are seeing the barloworld Froome?

Maybe, but I think the crash took more out of him than he let on, and combined with stress, is what's doing him in. He probably was also planning to ride into form for the last week of Il Giro. "The best laid plans...."

It's schemes and they gang aft agley

 

[vedrafjord]

Maybe his career arc is symmetrical - his 2017 Vuelta win finally delivered the win that was in his grasp in 2011, so the 2018 Giro will see him return to his 2010 Giro condition, and he'll get a DQ for holding onto a motorbike in week 3.

 

[MartinGT]

He will rise through the ashes in week 2 don't you worry.

 

[Wiggo's Package]

He will rise through the ashes in week 2 don't you worry.

Need to up the dose of sal in his pre-TV interview recovery bottles

 

[MartinGT]

The motor must have got stopped going into Israel and lost somewhere. Dont worry it will be back for stage 6

 

[Rollthedice]

Even if he manages some decent performances along the way in this Giro, I don't see him finish anywhere near the podium. Then he gets the ban, Sky sack him and he will finish his career at Novo Nordisk since by then it will be revealed that he also suffers from diabetes.

 

[JosephK]

The motor must have got stopped going into Israel and lost somewhere. Dont worry it will be back for stage 6

Yes, many may not realize it, but Froome has been/will be approved for a special mechanized TUE, due to a recently diagnosed epileptic condition, which is triggered by erratic electrical impulses from the neuro-cortex. The solution to offset this disability will be installation of an electrical motor in his bike, which will neutralize the erratic neuro-electrical impulses and allow him to regain his normal ability to perform in grand tours. Rumor has it that Wout Poels was felled by a seizure himself at the team dinner today and will be granted a similar mechanized TUE.

 

[Huapango]

The motor must have got stopped going into Israel and lost somewhere. Dont worry it will be back for stage 6

Yes, many may not realize it, but Froome has been/will be approved for a special mechanized TUE, due to a recently diagnosed epileptic condition, which is triggered by erratic electrical impulses from the neuro-cortex. The solution to offset this disability will be installation of an electrical motor in his bike, which will neutralize the erratic neuro-electrical impulses and allow him to regain his normal ability to perform in grand tours. Rumor has it that Wout Poels was felled by a seizure himself at the team dinner today and will be granted a similar mechanized TUE.

If I'm not mistaken, the Italian Disabilities Act allows for such mechanical devices for athletes who suffer from underperforming chronic inspiration caused by a sudden change in UCI leadership.

 

[TourOfSardinia]

He will rise through the ashes in week 2 don't you worry.

Ashes are at Mt Etna

 

[MartinGT]

:lol: Them last few posts have made me chuckle this morning :lol:

 

[Wiggo's Package]

Re:

Maybe his career arc is symmetrical - his 2017 Vuelta win finally delivered the win that was in his grasp in 2011, so the 2018 Giro will see him return to his 2010 Giro condition, and he'll get a DQ for holding onto a motorbike in week 3.

For perfect symmetry the Dawg's form needs to fall off a cliff at the Tour de Poland

 

[fmk_RoI]

Or what the other side did then: inventing new science, viz the famed plastizer test.

The plasticizer test was based on very solid research, thoroughly discussed here at the time.

Such a pity WADA pulled funding from such a solidly researched project before it could be validated.

 

[red_flanders]

The motor must have got stopped going into Israel and lost somewhere. Dont worry it will be back for stage 6

Yes, many may not realize it, but Froome has been/will be approved for a special mechanized TUE, due to a recently diagnosed epileptic condition, which is triggered by erratic electrical impulses from the neuro-cortex. The solution to offset this disability will be installation of an electrical motor in his bike, which will neutralize the erratic neuro-electrical impulses and allow him to regain his normal ability to perform in grand tours. Rumor has it that Wout Poels was felled by a seizure himself at the team dinner today and will be granted a similar mechanized TUE.

If I'm not mistaken, the Italian Disabilities Act allows for such mechanical devices for athletes who suffer from underperforming chronic inspiration caused by a sudden change in UCI leadership.

Well played.

 

[Merckx index]

Such a pity WADA pulled funding from such a solidly researched project before it could be validated.

There were several reasons for this, one of them being that the cat--or blood--was already out of the bag. Since riders now knew the risk of storing blood in this kind of bag, they were likely to avoid it. There are also in principle more direct ways of demonstrating transfusion, based on cellular/molecular changes in the blood, which don't depend on what the blood is stored in, and which can even be applied to frozen samples, which would not be the case for the DEHP test. (There is some solid research in this area, too, but it hasn't led to a test yet).

But because DEHP is an environmental pollutant, and is now pervasive in society, there have been literally tens of thousands of individuals whose urine levels have been determined, so I repeat, there is very solid research. This research has established a mean level that is far below what a rider transfusing blood would frequently demonstrate. The test could have been used, and AFAIK, it's still possible to use it as supplementary evidence if not as a standalone test. But as I have pointed out numerous times here, the most recent just a few days ago wrt Froome, WADA goes out of its way to avoid false positives, to the point of making it fairly easy for riders to avoid real ones.

 

[Tonton]

Froome nothing is nothing, Froome genius is something, and Froome-Light is a Lightweight...

 

[Robert5091]

'Tis the curse of the Giro, I tell you! "Froome-Light" is n't that a Canadian beer?

 

[MartinGT]

Dawg to go genius today and take 30s off Tommy D

 

[fmk_RoI]

Such a pity WADA pulled funding from such a solidly researched project before it could be validated.

There were several reasons for this, one of them being that the cat--or blood--was already out of the bag. Since riders now knew the risk of storing blood in this kind of bag, they were likely to avoid it. There are also in principle more direct ways of demonstrating transfusion, based on cellular/molecular changes in the blood, which don't depend on what the blood is stored in, and which can even be applied to frozen samples, which would not be the case for the DEHP test. (There is some solid research in this area, too, but it hasn't led to a test yet).

But because DEHP is an environmental pollutant, and is now pervasive in society, there have been literally tens of thousands of individuals whose urine levels have been determined, so I repeat, there is very solid research. This research has established a mean level that is far below what a rider transfusing blood would frequently demonstrate. The test could have been used, and AFAIK, it's still possible to use it as supplementary evidence if not as a standalone test. But as I have pointed out numerous times here, the most recent just a few days ago wrt Froome, WADA goes out of its way to avoid false positives, to the point of making it fairly easy for riders to avoid real ones.

So it would be fair to say, then, that it was a bit of a stretch to include it in the Bert case, all things considered?

 

[Merckx index]

So it would be fair to say, then, that it was a bit of a stretch to include it in the Bert case, all things considered?

Not at all. It provided very useful information. Remember that while CAS concluded it was a contaminated supplement, they clearly weren't very confident in the decision--it was like a political candidate winning office with less than a majority of the vote--and Contador himself denied at the outset that he had taken any supplements.

Back to Froome. His Giro strategy ought to be affected by his salbutamol case. It was just reported that his trainer, I think it was, said Froome wasn't 100% yet, and that was by plan, since he has to conserve energy for the Tour. But the blunt reality is that he very likely will not be able to ride the Tour, and will probably be able to keep Giro results, so IMO he ought to go all out to win this GT, hold nothing back. If a minor miracle happens, and he either isn't banned before the Tour, or any ban isn't proactive, he can deal with that as it happens. But he seems to be in denial, that the Giro is probably the only chance he's going to have this year.

OTOH, if he turns out not be competitive in the Giro--and the injury and the time losses at least hint that he might not be--then he needs to think about abandoning, trying to get a retroactive ban that allows him to ride the Tour, and going all out for that. It's too early to know, I understand, but it's a real possibility, and if he's seriously affected by the injury, he might need to rest if he were to have any chance at the Tour.

 

[fmk_RoI]

So it would be fair to say, then, that it was a bit of a stretch to include it in the Bert case, all things considered?

Not at all. It provided very useful information. Remember that while CAS concluded it was a contaminated supplement, they clearly weren't very confident in the decision--it was like a political candidate winning office with less than a majority of the vote--and Contador himself denied at the outset that he had taken any supplements.

Back to Froome. His Giro strategy ought to be affected by his salbutamol case. It was just reported that his trainer, I think it was, said Froome wasn't 100% yet, and that was by plan, since he has to conserve energy for the Tour. But the blunt reality is that he very likely will not be able to ride the Tour, and will probably be able to keep Giro results, so IMO he ought to go all out to win this GT, hold nothing back. If a minor miracle happens, and he either isn't banned before the Tour, or any ban isn't proactive, he can deal with that as it happens. But he seems to be in denial, that the Giro is probably the only chance he's going to have this year.

OTOH, if he turns out not be competitive in the Giro--and the injury and the time losses at least hint that he might not be--then he needs to think about abandoning, trying to get a retroactive ban that allows him to ride the Tour, and going all out for that. It's too early to know, I understand, but it's a real possibility, and if he's seriously affected by the injury, he might need to rest if he were to have any chance at the Tour.

Somehow I get the feeling that none of this has had anything to do with my original comment.

 

[Merckx index]

Somehow I get the feeling that none of this has had anything to do with my original comment.

Well, not the last two paragraphs, as I said I was going to change the subject back to Froome. But your original comment was:

Or what the other side did then: inventing new science, viz the famed plastizer test.

Maybe I misinterpreted this, but "inventing new science" sounds derogatory to me, implying that the DEHP test was a fantasy that never had any possibility as a valid test. And my point has been that it was a very good idea, even if WADA ultimately decided they wouldn't base a test for transfusion on urine DEHP levels. It was never going to be possible to use those levels by themselves to sanction Contador, though, because every test has to go through a validation process, and this test had not at the time. In that respect, it was somewhat like the situation when Ressiot reported the EPO levels in LA's TDF samples--no matter how good that evidence was, it couldn't be used to sanction him.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Or what the other side did then: inventing new science, viz the famed plastizer test.

Maybe I misinterpreted this, but "inventing new science" sounds derogatory to me, implying that the DEHP test was a fantasy that never had any possibility as a valid test. And my point has been that it was a very good idea, even if WADA ultimately decided they wouldn't base a test for transfusion on urine DEHP levels. It was never going to be possible to use those levels by themselves to sanction Contador, though, because every test has to go through a validation process, and this test had not at the time. In that respect, it was somewhat like the situation when Ressiot reported the EPO levels in LA's TDF samples--no matter how good that evidence was, it couldn't be used to sanction him.

It may have been a good idea, but it was not a validated procedure. It was something seized upon, in pretty much the same way some think this latest bit of Dutch nonsense will be seized upon - more in hope than expectation.

 

[Wiggo's Package]

Ashenden talks in detail about Contador, DEHP levels and the CAS hearing:

http://nyvelocity.com/articles/interviews/behind-the-scenes-of-the-contador-cas-hearing-with-michael-ashenden/

This is my favourite quote:

"Among other things, I was prevented from testifying about non-DEHP bags. It was a surreal situation to be confronted with, because it was such a simple issue to resolve completely and without room for doubt in about 30 seconds, yet the arguments to prevent me from confirming that non-DEHP bags existed took hours. I recognise that arbitration hearings must be conducted in accordance with legal rules, but that does not remedy the frustration I felt when I was categorically ordered by the chairman not to answer the question, but instead the question was directed to the person sitting right next to me who did not know the answer."

Meanwhile, back on topic, the Dawg was struggling today. Looks like a man in need of a large infusion of something tainted with DEHP

 

[pastronef]

Re:

Meanwhile, back on topic, the Dawg was struggling today. Looks like a man in need of a large infusion of something tainted with DEHP

well, if staying with Dumo Pozzo Pinot is struggling, this bodes well for the rest of the race. bit by bit the crash pains are going away. and he´s better than 2 days ago.

 

[Wiggo's Package]

Re: Re:

Meanwhile, back on topic, the Dawg was struggling today. Looks like a man in need of a large infusion of something tainted with DEHP

well, if staying with Dumo Pozzo Pinot is struggling, this bodes well for the rest of the race. bit by bit the crash pains are going away. and he´s better than 2 days ago.

The crash pains going away solve a small problem. Uncle Brian going away created a much bigger problem