Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[macbindle]

LeTour welcomes escapades such as Froome's Ventoux . It gets attention. The attendant doping outcry is barely audible in the bigger picture. LeTour don't want scandal. Scandal doesn't mean doping, it means exposed doping.

 

[ColonelKidneyBeans]

Re: Re:

Froome's protesting that he wants this resolved quickly is a bit hard to swallow. If there was a simple, airtight explanation, it would have been offered 6 months ago. It's pretty clear that the CAS -- if it gets to them -- will be presented with a 10-inch thick dossier of charts, graphs and irrelvant but convincing looking studies, with a corresponding PowerPoint presentation.

I am pretty sure ASO is tied in knots right now, however. They'd love to ban CF but OTOH would like the publicity that will come from him riding with an unresolved case. They've only got a few weeks to make a call, too.

I find it hard to believe that Froome has taken significantly more salbutomol than allowed - it just doesn't pass the basic common sense filter for me (which doesn't mean I necessarily think he takes nothing at all...)

They evidently haven't a clue why the ultra high reading they got occured and thats why we see them scrabbling about trying every avenue possible.

They **** up when they refilled (BB) after Los Muchachos crisis.

The BB theory doesn't hold up, reread some of Merckx Index post to understand why (sorry i'm a bit too busy RN to search and link them), that's not to say that the most likely explanation isn't that they **** up somewhere tough, saying i find it hard to believe that Froome has taken more than allowed, is like saying i find it hard to believe that he didn't take excretion time properly into account if he was busted for EPO. That salbutamol in his urine didn't come from nowhere, and the "magic kidneys" theory is improbable (and "improbable" is likely too kind a word here), so...

he did take significantly more...they found it..it was there

the question is how. The most probable answer is that he takes it via illegal methods as part of whatever program he is on to lose weight and keep weight off (the asthma providing cover up to 1200) and he literally took the wrong drug by mistake. That excuse won't fly obviously, for a number of reasons, and so we find ourselves with the shaggy defence.....'it wasn't me"

Yep, and there can be a mix of reasons why he took significantly too much that day (the threshold is rather generous), maybe he is both legitimately asthmatic and on oral salbutamol for weight loss/anabolic effects, had an asthma crisis, took too much on the puffer and the combined dose sent him overboard, maybe he made a mistake with his tablets (it would not surprise me if he took a lot of medicines/supplements, both legit and illegal), maybe his doping doc made a stupid miscalculation and told him that he could up his dosage after the los machucos bad day, maybe... But one thing is sure, that salbutamol didn't come out of nowhere and the probability of having some kind of intermittent kidney failure while trashing the competition sounds... yeah i'm gonna stay with "improbable"

 

[TourOfSardinia]

Re:

LeTour welcomes escapades such as Froome's Ventoux . It gets attention. The attendant doping outcry is barely audible in the bigger picture. LeTour don't want scandal. Scandal doesn't mean doping, it means exposed doping.

Go tell Chicken and Vino that.

 

[red_flanders]

Re: Re:

Yep, and there can be a mix of reasons why he took significantly too much that day (the threshold is rather generous), maybe he is both legitimately asthmatic and on oral salbutamol for weight loss/anabolic effects, had an asthma crisis, took too much on the puffer and the combined dose sent him overboard, maybe he made a mistake with his tablets (it would not surprise me if he took a lot of medicines/supplements, both legit and illegal), maybe his doping doc made a stupid miscalculation and told him that he could up his dosage after the los machucos bad day, maybe... But one thing is sure, that salbutamol didn't come out of nowhere and the probability of having some kind of intermittent kidney failure while trashing the competition sounds... yeah i'm gonna stay with "improbable"

Maybe he's using it as recovery, and taking oral doses.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10912897

CONCLUSIONS:
Under the conditions of this study, oral salbutamol appears to be an effective ergogenic aid in nonasthmatic individuals not experiencing adverse side effects.

Maybe he timed it wrong or got the dose wrong. He got something wrong.

 

[thehog]

Prato Nevoso, last time Froome climbed this mountain was TdF 2008, he finished in the autobus with big guys like McEwen and O'Grady
127th, 21 minutes behind the GC guys

This is why we love the Dawg, certainly not a Simon Yates in his mid-20’s

 

[MartinGT]

Prato Nevoso, last time Froome climbed this mountain was TdF 2008, he finished in the autobus with big guys like McEwen and O'Grady
127th, 21 minutes behind the GC guys

This is why we love the Dawg, certainly not a Simon Yates in his mid-20’s

Yeh they put that stat up today during the race. He was the worse one IIRC out of the guys currently still racing in the race doing it. Yet totally glossed over by Kirby et al

 

[Parker]

Prato Nevoso, last time Froome climbed this mountain was TdF 2008, he finished in the autobus with big guys like McEwen and O'Grady
127th, 21 minutes behind the GC guys

This is why we love the Dawg, certainly not a Simon Yates in his mid-20’s

Yeh they put that stat up today during the race. He was the worse one IIRC out of the guys currently still racing in the race doing it. Yet totally glossed over by Kirby et al

He was a first year pro doing his first world tour level stage race.

Yates also did the Tour in his first season. He was fourth last on one mountain stage, nearly forty minutes down. When he abandoned he was 83rd on GC, co-incidentally the exact position Froome finished his debut Tour in.

 

[thehog]

Prato Nevoso, last time Froome climbed this mountain was TdF 2008, he finished in the autobus with big guys like McEwen and O'Grady
127th, 21 minutes behind the GC guys

This is why we love the Dawg, certainly not a Simon Yates in his mid-20’s

Yeh they put that stat up today during the race. He was the worse one IIRC out of the guys currently still racing in the race doing it. Yet totally glossed over by Kirby et al

He was a first year pro doing his first world tour level stage race.

Yates also did the Tour in his first season. He was fourth last on one mountain stage, nearly forty minutes down. When he abandoned he was 83rd on GC, co-incidentally the exact position Froome finished his debut Tour in.

Hmmmmmm, nope. Yates progressed, Froome stayed his same crap self until the Vuelta 2011. Let’s keep this in perspective, please.

 

[Benotti69]

Prato Nevoso, last time Froome climbed this mountain was TdF 2008, he finished in the autobus with big guys like McEwen and O'Grady
127th, 21 minutes behind the GC guys

This is why we love the Dawg, certainly not a Simon Yates in his mid-20’s

Yeh they put that stat up today during the race. He was the worse one IIRC out of the guys currently still racing in the race doing it. Yet totally glossed over by Kirby et al

He was a first year pro doing his first world tour level stage race.

Yates also did the Tour in his first season. He was fourth last on one mountain stage, nearly forty minutes down. When he abandoned he was 83rd on GC, co-incidentally the exact position Froome finished his debut Tour in.

Compare that with pre-epo riders who won GTs. All performed well from the start.

 

[red_flanders]

Compare that with pre-epo riders who won GTs. All performed well from the start.

Age 23. Third. As a domestique.

Caption contest?

 

[Parker]

Hmmmmmm, nope. Yates progressed, Froome stayed his same crap self until the Vuelta 2011. Let’s keep this in perspective, please.

Yates had the full benefit of British Cycling, it's track programme, it's road academy. Froome came from a country that has produced no other pro cyclist.
Yates turn pro with a world tour team and has been there ever since. Froome joined a pro conti team which folded in his second year. He then had injuries and illness.

Comparing the two is like comparing a privately educated kid how went to Oxbridge with a home schooled kid from an estate who went to evening classes.

 

[Parker]

Compare that with pre-epo riders who won GTs. All performed well from the start.

How many came from a country that had no pro cyclists, ever?

 

[ColonelKidneyBeans]

Compare that with pre-epo riders who won GTs. All performed well from the start.

How many came from a country that had no pro cyclists, ever?

Froome learned everything between the tour of Poland and the Vuelta ofc. Now that makes sense.

 

[Parker]

Compare that with pre-epo riders who won GTs. All performed well from the start.

How many came from a country that had no pro cyclists, ever?

Froome learned everything between the tour of Poland and the Vuelta ofc. Now that makes sense.

That was the Tour of Poland won by Peter Sagan, am I right? What was his GC position in the Vuelta? It's almost as though they were different races.

 

[ColonelKidneyBeans]

Compare that with pre-epo riders who won GTs. All performed well from the start.

How many came from a country that had no pro cyclists, ever?

Froome learned everything between the tour of Poland and the Vuelta ofc. Now that makes sense.

That was the Tour of Poland won by Peter Sagan, am I right? What was his GC position in the Vuelta? It's almost as though they were different races.

It's almost as tough Froome has no results in his WT career before that Vuelta, apart from his second place at the 2010 ITT NC (against such a stellar field) . And yeah they were different races, but Froome sure as hell was a different rider between those. Nothing screams future GT contender like getting dropped on every stage with the slightest hill. I could have used any race in Froome career before that Vuelta, Poland is just a good marker because of temporal proximity, in three weeks he goes from Kennaugh invisible domestique finishing every stage with the slightest difficulty well behind,to nearly winning the Vuelta while domestiquing for Wiggins. Does that make any sense?

 

[Ripper]

Re: Re:

Yep, and there can be a mix of reasons why he took significantly too much that day (the threshold is rather generous), maybe he is both legitimately asthmatic and on oral salbutamol for weight loss/anabolic effects, had an asthma crisis, took too much on the puffer and the combined dose sent him overboard, maybe he made a mistake with his tablets (it would not surprise me if he took a lot of medicines/supplements, both legit and illegal), maybe his doping doc made a stupid miscalculation and told him that he could up his dosage after the los machucos bad day, maybe... But one thing is sure, that salbutamol didn't come out of nowhere and the probability of having some kind of intermittent kidney failure while trashing the competition sounds... yeah i'm gonna stay with "improbable"

This ^

Remember the saying that antidoping is basically an IQ test? The basic premise being, more than likely, you are either catching dummies, easy fish, or someone who made a mistake. Froome would fall into category 3. And if you follow someone enough, everyone makes mistakes.

 

[Ripper]

Re: Re:

Maybe he timed it wrong or got the dose wrong. He got something wrong.

Exactly. An "oops" moment. As per my comment above to the Colonel.

BTW - why is Parker such as Froome apologist? Honest question.

 

[Huapango]

Re: Re:

And if you follow someone enough, everyone makes mistakes.

Unless the mistake was "business as usual" and Cookson not getting reelected was the miscalculation in the doping math.

 

[gillan1969]

Prato Nevoso, last time Froome climbed this mountain was TdF 2008, he finished in the autobus with big guys like McEwen and O'Grady
127th, 21 minutes behind the GC guys

This is why we love the Dawg, certainly not a Simon Yates in his mid-20’s

Yeh they put that stat up today during the race. He was the worse one IIRC out of the guys currently still racing in the race doing it. Yet totally glossed over by Kirby et al

He was a first year pro doing his first world tour level stage race.

Yates also did the Tour in his first season. He was fourth last on one mountain stage, nearly forty minutes down. When he abandoned he was 83rd on GC, co-incidentally the exact position Froome finished his debut Tour in.

Name one, just one, performance pre-Vuelta 2011 which suggested Froome was at the very very upper end of the human physiological spectrum and one of the best GT riders the world has known? Just one?

 

[Koronin]

Re: Re:

And if you follow someone enough, everyone makes mistakes.

Unless the mistake was "business as usual" and Cookson not getting reelected was the miscalculation in the doping math.

Truthfully I actually think there is some validity to this.

 

[Robert5091]

Re: Re:

And if you follow someone enough, everyone makes mistakes.

Unless the mistake was "business as usual" and Cookson not getting reelected was the miscalculation in the doping math.

Truthfully I actually think there is some validity to this.

The leak to the press must have really p****ed off SDB/Sky too.

 

[MartinGT]

If the Dawg takes the Giro all the sychophants will be saying it was a total stroke of genius by him and Sky to work up the form. They will ignore the uphill crashing, the dropping off on easy gradients, the lack of 5,000,000 RPM.

 

[TheSpud]

If the Dawg takes the Giro all the sychophants will be saying it was a total stroke of genius by him and Sky to work up the form. They will ignore the uphill crashing, the dropping off on easy gradients, the lack of 5,000,000 RPM.

Watching stage 19 he could do it

 

[MartinGT]

80km solo. WTF!

 

[therealthing]

Re:

80km solo. WTF!

He just wants the Cima Coppi.