Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[fmk_RoI]

Re:

I didn't watch the stage, so I burst out laughing when I saw the headlines on CN and L'Equipe website homepages. I wouldn't say that I feel "cheated", like the author of the CylingTips article. More like: some suckers such as Vegni have gotten what they deserved, for courting Froome to ride the Giro in the first place.

Flax and the rest of the CT crew can be awfully wet sometimes. They take everything so goddamned seriously and personally.

Also I agree with FMK, that the ASO will not have the guts to stop Froome from riding the Tour de France. Too afraid, because the Valverde case set a kind of legal precedent which would invite a lawsuit. And too indifferent to corruption of the sport. Like FMK said repeatedly, the ASO didn't deign to question Armstrong's Tour de Farce winning spree.

Some have countered that: Froome is far less valuable than Armstrong, and Sky far more fractious and vulnerable than most people think. So is it really in their financial interests to turn a blind eye? Which is absolutely true, but ASO still will not take action. So, it kind of comes down to Ulrich Haas, whether he is issuing a decision within the next month. Like Romain Bardet said, it's a farcical situation, in which David Lappartient is left looking powerless

With ASO having the money-making Tour de Yorkshire and UCI having the money-making Yorkshire Worlds coming up, let's see just how much of a will there is in either organisation to do anything other than waiting for things to work themselves out.

One interpretation is that Froome really believes himself to be invincible, and will keep forging ahead, no matter what. Another possibility is: that he has been told things are not going well with his doping case, and he now expects to get banned until 2020 - so might as well 'go out with a bang' and then insist for all posterity that 'winning the triple' was legitimate.

This is the guy who as an adolescent stole the beloved pets of 5-year-old kindergarten children, and killed the pets sadistically in secrecy. So in some underlying sense, it may be a personality trait that he enjoys 'getting away with' antisocial behavior. Anyway, whether truly he believes himself to have been wronged, or whether through sheer perversity, he wants to make a mockery of his competitors and of the cycling authorities

I doubt he's trying to make a mockery of things. I suspect that he believes he has done nothing wrong. As he notes in his autobiog he is more inclined to obey his own moral compass than he is the actual rules. He believes what he is saying. But then, even St Flandis believed he was innocent at the time.

 

[brownbobby]

Re:

If and I know this is an if. If this had been say Nibali whilst riding for Vino who had done this there would be up roar. Imagine if (again I know) he had gone onto win the Tour too.

As opposed to the calm and quiet acceptance and appreciation following Froomes victory

 

[The Hegelian]

Re: Re:

I've let everything settle for a day or two. Now I just have to say:

What Froome did in the Giro was Absolute Full genius, Universal Mutant, Immutable Alien. Insane, ridiculous, unbelievable. It was proper 90's/00's stuff.

Not the slightest shred of reason or evidence is needed - it was ontological.

It's the clinic way after all

Normally I'm happy to deploy reason. But sometimes, the truth manifests itself in the very appearance of reality - nakedly, and prior even to thought.

In this case, one just watches the stage, and what is so, is so.

 

[Oliwright]

Re: Chris Froome Discussion Thread.

This piece: http://www.cyclingnews.com/features...me-and-trying-to-understand-the-unbelievable/

It has a lot of ***, re not riding into shape for the 3rd week & Froome's form is painted as worse than it was.
We've seen the likes of Quintana & Nibali ride into shape and people didn't fuss. We've also seen riders collapse in the 3rd week.
Also I think it's easy to forget that Froome looked great on Etna & then crashed again.

The piece makes some interesting points, but CN editorial staff seem to like the exceptionally sceptical narrative whenever Sky do well. I agree with their scepticism to a point, but they need to be consistent with it. You can't not mention it when Froome & Sky aren't winning and then bring it back up so strongly when they do.

I think Cyclingnews forget that there are reasons (maybe less maybe more of them) to doubt every team with failed tests from riders. EG: Astana they're Astana, yet nothing is written about Lopez. I understand Cycling's past, but the sport has the most comprehensive drug testing in the world and I wish people would trust results more than the opposite. It feels like every results from Sky is questioned but Quickstep win everything with nobodies and everyone is like well duh. I wonder how long it will take for the sport to get back to people being presumed innocent rather than taking a 50/50 approach.

 

[ciranda]

I don't think these stats mean anything. If Chris Froome had been born in Belgium in 1945 the outcome of those Ostende omnium and Londerzeel Critérium would have been very different.

 

[saganftw]

Re:

Provisional Giro 2018 winner holds the trophy that was given to him by former Giro 2011 winner.

Isn't it beautiful?

10 bucks for contadors thoughts :lol:

 

[LaFlorecita]

I actually think that's a pretty balanced article (as can be expected from Philippa) which mirrors the feelings and concerns of many cycling fans.

 

[MartinGT]

Why provisional winner?

 

[Oliwright]

Re:

I actually think that's a pretty balanced article (as can be expected from Philippa) which mirrors the feelings and concerns of many cycling fans.

I don't think it's far off. But the line "despite what anyone says, you don't ride yourself into form in a brutal three-week race. If you aren't in good shape at the start, the kicking you get each day adds up and you only become more and more tired." makes it hard to think it was attempted to be written perfectly balanced.

Philippa says she tried not to be cynical but for me that is. Also, CN have clearly never made up after that piece head hunting for Dave Brailsford.

Also this bit:
"After all the scandals, from Shane Sutton saying that Team Sky gamed the TUE system, to the stock of Kenalog, Jiffy bags, lost medical records, the DCMS report, UKAD's investigation, testosterone deliveries, Tramadol use, and a win-at-all-cost culture, Froome’s ride could only lead us to ask questions."

The points are valid, but none have anything to do with Froome directly. A rider shouldn't be painted by the entire brush of their team. Otherwise, you might as well discount every Astana rider etc.

Froome should only be brought to task for the Salbutamol case which is a big concern, but it's really relatively insignificant in terms of the grand scheme of things. 1/21 urine tests came back +ve for and I don't think anyone belives Froome won the Vuelta because it. In terms of the health of the sport, it's bad having a rider who could be facing a ban riding, but this could be happening to 20 other riders and probably has happened to many, but no-one knows because it's meant to be private.

If the Salbutamol case happened to Sagan or even a rider who didn't win races, would the public care?

 

[LaFlorecita]

If the Salbutamol case happened to Sagan, would the public care?

Yes, I think so, but not as much maybe, as he is much more popular.

or even a rider who didn't win races

Of course not, and rightfully so.

As for what the salbutamol test means in the grand scheme of things, that's better discussed in the Clinic, I think. Fact is that the day before the test, he suffered like a dog, and the day of the test he was among the best again.

Edit: this was originally posted in the PRR section

 

[Climbing]

Re: Re:

Provisional Giro 2018 winner holds the trophy that was given to him by former Giro 2011 winner.

Isn't it beautiful?

10 bucks for contadors thoughts :lol:

Incredible similarities? Both stripped of 2 GTs?
I see what you did here.

 

[Eyeballs Out]

Froome to BBC

There should be no question at all about the validity of the results here.

I am being tested absolutely every day - before the race and after the race.

I know from my side, I've done absolutely nothing wrong and it's only a matter of time until that is clear to everybody.

It's unfortunate for the sport and its image, but hopefully we'll get this result as soon as possible. For everyone, that would be the best thing possible. We're in the middle of that process right now.

Never tested positive (in this race)

At some time in the near future his defence team will be trying to invalidate that same testing :lol:

 

[Red Rick]

Quintana and Nibali riding into form was basically going from being average at the start to great in the 3rd week

Froome went from being the worst he's been in a GT in 8 years, crashing, to the best performance he's ever done.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Provisional Giro 2018 winner holds the trophy that was given to him by former Giro 2011 winner.

Isn't it beautiful?

10 bucks for contadors thoughts :lol:

Probably wondering what he is doing up there

 

[SafeBet]

Re:

Quintana and Nibali riding into form was basically going from being average at the start to great in the 3rd week

And people actually did fuss.

 

[Robert5091]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/chr...es-to-find-vital-pain-relief-at-giro-ditalia/

He just changed saddle ... ah,that's alright then!

 

[ngent41]

Re: Chris Froome Discussion Thread.

This piece: http://www.cyclingnews.com/features...me-and-trying-to-understand-the-unbelievable/

It has a lot of ***, re not riding into shape for the 3rd week & Froome's form is painted as worse than it was.
We've seen the likes of Quintana & Nibali ride into shape and people didn't fuss. We've also seen riders collapse in the 3rd week.
Also I think it's easy to forget that Froome looked great on Etna & then crashed again.

The piece makes some interesting points, but CN editorial staff seem to like the exceptionally sceptical narrative whenever Sky do well. I agree with their scepticism to a point, but they need to be consistent with it. You can't not mention it when Froome & Sky aren't winning and then bring it back up so strongly when they do.

I think Cyclingnews forget that there are reasons (maybe less maybe more of them) to doubt every team with failed tests from riders. EG: Astana they're Astana, yet nothing is written about Lopez. I understand Cycling's past, but the sport has the most comprehensive drug testing in the world and I wish people would trust results more than the opposite. It feels like every results from Sky is questioned but Quickstep win everything with nobodies and everyone is like well duh. I wonder how long it will take for the sport to get back to people being presumed innocent rather than taking a 50/50 approach.

If you think the riders on quick step that typically win races are nobodies you need to watch more cycling, because that's just not true.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re: Re:

But the line "despite what anyone says, you don't ride yourself into form in a brutal three-week race. If you aren't in good shape at the start, the kicking you get each day adds up and you only become more and more tired." makes it hard to think it was attempted to be written perfectly balanced.

Are you denying that the kicking you get each day adds up and you only become more and more tired during a Grand Tour? Do you believe, for instance, that your testosterone level or haematocrit level naturally increases over a Grand Tour?

Philippa says she tried not to be cynical but for me that is. Also, CN have clearly never made up after that piece head hunting for Dave Brailsford.

Your saying CN have clearly never made up - it takes two to tango and it was Brailsford that took umbrage at that article. For you to say its for CN to make up is tantamount to saying CN should back down.

Also this bit:
"After all the scandals, from Shane Sutton saying that Team Sky gamed the TUE system, to the stock of Kenalog, Jiffy bags, lost medical records, the DCMS report, UKAD's investigation, testosterone deliveries, Tramadol use, and a win-at-all-cost culture, Froome’s ride could only lead us to ask questions."

The points are valid, but none have anything to do with Froome directly. A rider shouldn't be painted by the entire brush of their team. Otherwise, you might as well discount every Astana rider etc.

No performance exists in isolation. All of these things happened, all of these things colour our perception of what happened. It is for Sky to fix that, not for us to forget them and pretend they did not happen.

If the Salbutamol case happened to Sagan or even a rider who didn't win races, would the public care?

Yes.

 

[carolina]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/chr...es-to-find-vital-pain-relief-at-giro-ditalia/

He just changed saddle ... ah,that's alright then!

Damn... I also have a specialized power. Why can't I win any race

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re:

Quintana and Nibali riding into form was basically going from being average at the start to great in the 3rd week

Froome went from being the worst he's been in a GT in 8 years, crashing, to the best performance he's ever done.

Doesn't riding into form mean not starting at peak? It can work if you have a quiet(ish) first week but I think the point York makes is it doesn't work if you're starting in recovery mode.

Yates seems to have peaked too soon, no? A good performance for a two week race, but not three.

 

[fmk_RoI]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/chr...es-to-find-vital-pain-relief-at-giro-ditalia/

He just changed saddle ... ah,that's alright then!

Apparently Michele Ferrari is full of useful saddle-related advice...him and LA used to discuss it.

 

[Saint Unix]

My god, he found some watts in the saddle now too? At some point you'd think he wouldn't even have to pedal at all with all these enormous gains from unlikely places...

 

[terribleone]

Re:

Saddle sore eh? So another TUE for kenakort or hydrocortisone wouldn't be out the question...

My god, he found some watts in the saddle now too? At some point you'd think he wouldn't even have to pedal at all with all these enormous gains from unlikely places...

 

[Craigee]

How do we know Froome didn't get a TUE the night before the incredible 80kms solo effort?

We'll never know because it's allowed to be kept secret in the rules. WADA takes us all for fools.

 

[Craigee]

Re: Re:

Saddle sore eh? So another TUE for kenakort or hydrocortisone wouldn't be out the question...

My god, he found some watts in the saddle now too? At some point you'd think he wouldn't even have to pedal at all with all these enormous gains from unlikely places...

hehe on the same page