Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Now i have read all of it since the meltdown of the clinic. To my surprise: No serious proof of an abnormal performance by Froome. Yeah, the 3rd best time ever. But hey, it´s 12 (!!) years after...
His lips were as white as Gerdemann`s after finishing the Tdf stage 2007. Froome surely gave it all he had, everything, no pretenting like Armstrong... and gained one minute on Ten Dam. Oops. Is that really unbeliveable? I don´t think so. It just shows how ordinary pipo like AC and Valv are, when even Ten Dam is having better/same results as them (a guy who first cracked T20 in a GT at age 31).

P.S.: Nothing against Ten Dam. I like those guys who grit teeth like he did after crashing, or like Hoogerland, or Ullrich. Unlike cry babys like Schlecklets who think descents should be neutralisized and attacking should only start after crossing the finish line.

 

[BroDeal]

Bottom line is this isn't a 'Wiggins' performance so far. And what I mean there is that there hasn't been that dramatic a rise in performance from one year to the next like we saw from Wiggins from 2011 to 2012. Fact is, Froome really had the form to win it last year but was held back because of team politics of wanting Wiggins to win.

Huh, what? No sudden rise from Froome, the rider who spent his early career paperboying up climbs and getting DQed from the Giro for holding onto motor vehicles on climbs?

 

[darwin553]

Wiggins is the doper and Froome is the seasoned vet naturally progressing into a GT contender? Froome had the form to win it last year, and almost slipped up with his attacking, what about Froome from 2010 to 2011?

Don't really know enough or really paid enough attention about his form from 2011-2012 to comment...that in itself is suspicious to begin with

 

[Ferminal]

Wiggins is the doper and Froome is the seasoned vet naturally progressing into a GT contender? Froome had the form to win it last year, and almost slipped up with his attacking, what about Froome from 2010 to 2011?

Yeh this is a pretty interesting post-script to 2012. I was of the belief that Froome still wouldn't have won even if he didn't puncture on stage 1 and lose time, even if he was unleashed in the mountains. I guess that changes now, and the people who suggested Froome could have taken 4-5 minutes on Wiggins were probably right.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

So they are doping, but better at it or they have the UCI in their pocket like USPS so no problems with any positives turning up?

There won´t be any positives, unless half of the field will be revealed in 2022 (like Aicar, GW1516)... that´s what i mean they don´t do any worse things than others.

 

[No_Balls]

Huh, what? No sudden rise from Froome, the rider who spent his early career paperboying up climbs and getting DQed from the Giro for holding onto motor vehicles on climbs?

The apologists and revisionists is out ready with their prepared script about how Froome actually is an very successful rider and where his path was laid of being the most dominate athlete in the sport since Armstrong. Soon we will be told how Anatomic Jock Race actually is la creme de la creme in the world of cycling.

We are all back to square one.

 

[darwin553]

The question is: if Froome had the form to win it last year but wasn't allowed due to team politics, is Porte in the same boat this year?

 

[Maxiton]

The apologists and revisionists is out ready with their prepared script about how Froome actually is an very successful rider and where his path was laid of being the most dominate athlete in the sport since Armstrong. Soon we will be told how Anatomic Jock Race actually is la creme de la creme in the world of cycling.

We are all back to square one.

Just because they kicked LA off square one doesn't mean the sport ever left it. Granted, there was finally some improvement a couple of years ago but it didn't last.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

The question is: if Froome had the form to win it last year but wasn't allowed due to team politics, is Porte in the same boat this year?

No........

 

[SaxonUK]

The question is: if Froome had the form to win it last year but wasn't allowed due to team politics, is Porte in the same boat this year?

It's a little too early to tell but at least on todays stage it didn't look like Porte was holding back in order to keep Froome on his wheel, nor did it look like the two of them were having a particularly bad time, poker face doesn't even begin to cover the two of them.

Froome definately looked at points last Tour that he was being held back in order to help Wiggins.

Still, two more weeks left, maybe they'll just accelerate from the peloton on each stage and duke it out on the climbs.

 

[darwin553]

No........

Well did the domestique role he had to do for a period yesterday take away from his performance and thus hiding his true GC potential?

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Bottom line is this isn't a 'Wiggins' performance so far. And what I mean there is that there hasn't been that dramatic a rise in performance from one year to the next like we saw from Wiggins from 2011 to 2012. Fact is, Froome really had the form to win it last year but was held back because of team politics of wanting Wiggins to win.

Now, explain Porte...

 

[darwin553]

Well did the domestique role he had to do for a period yesterday take away from his performance and thus hiding his true GC potential?

Likewise, let's not forget that he lost 30 seconds flat by sitting up and waiting for Quintana and letting him set the pace before he went after Froome.

On a one on one basis I reckon Froome would have only probably put 15-20 seconds on Porte maybe less.

 

[Fatclimber]

Bottom line is this isn't a 'Wiggins' performance so far. And what I mean there is that there hasn't been that dramatic a rise in performance from one year to the next like we saw from Wiggins from 2011 to 2012. Fact is, Froome really had the form to win it last year but was held back because of team politics of wanting Wiggins to win.[/QUOTE]

Haha! But to the bolded, next year you will be able to say the same about Porte.

 

[darwin553]

Bottom line is this isn't a 'Wiggins' performance so far. And what I mean there is that there hasn't been that dramatic a rise in performance from one year to the next like we saw from Wiggins from 2011 to 2012. Fact is, Froome really had the form to win it last year but was held back because of team politics of wanting Wiggins to win.[/QUOTE]

Haha! But to the bolded, next year you will be able to say the same about Porte.

Something has to explode doesn't it? Not everything can go to a team grand script as well as this will purportedly go, surely?

 

[vrusimov]

Bottom line is this isn't a 'Wiggins' performance so far. And what I mean there is that there hasn't been that dramatic a rise in performance from one year to the next like we saw from Wiggins from 2011 to 2012. Fact is, Froome really had the form to win it last year but was held back because of team politics of wanting Wiggins to win.

Man you talk about 2011-12. I am more concerned with what happened between High Road in 2008 and Garmin in 2009, where he goes from zig-zagging his way up hills to 22:01 at Verbier [460W standard], just :23 seconds behind Andy Schleck. He says he does not know how he managed third place that year, insinuating that he did nothing special to achieve it? A tour where is average wattage was higher than his Tour win three years later?

Can you imagine if Wiggins HAD come to the tour? What would we see? Gewiss-Ballan redux? I think there is more to the mysterious knee story.

 

[The Hitch]

Hopefully "woodstock321" is still around to make the sequel.

lol they were sprinting the entire stage and it was still slower than Froome this year.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Likewise, let's not forget that he lost 30 seconds flat by sitting up and waiting for Quintana and letting him set the pace before he went after Froome.

On a one on one basis I reckon Froome would have only probably put 15-20 seconds on Porte maybe less.

Which would have been still superior to Porte. But Froome last year (and in 2011) was really better than Wiggins. I am sure he would have done the same achievement then, how he did today. Froome is the real deal.

 

[darwin553]

Can you imagine if Wiggins HAD come to the tour? What would we see? Gewiss-Ballan redux? I think there is more to the mysterious knee story.

It may be that Wiggins exaggerated his knee injury because he didn't want to get 'blown off the park' by Froome?? Not a good look for a reigning champ

 

[The Hitch]

His lips were as white as Gerdemann`s after finishing the Tdf stage 2007. Froome surely gave it all he had, everything, no pretenting like Armstrong... and gained one minute on Ten Dam. Oops. Is that really unbeliveable? I don´t think so.

So wait. what you are saying is that its normal for chris froome to make tremendous leaps in performance, but LTD's ability must remain stationary. He can't possibly improve even a little bit.

LTD's climbing ability must always remain at the same level that foxy remembers it. Froome however can improve as much as he pleases.

 

[darwin553]

Which would have been still superior to Porte. But Froome last year (and in 2011) was really better than Wiggins. I am sure he would have done the same achievement then, how he did today. Froome is the real deal.

Well we saw at the Giro that they were pretty much neck and neck up the highest categorised climbs but that was without the need for Porte to take on too much of a domestique role - last night Porte had to given the difficulty of the climbs and the lack of sky team-mates.

So there are too many variables to really say that Froome would have established anything close to a 15-20 second lead if it wasn't for Porte's sacrifices he made - maybe a 10 second lead is closer to the mark

 

[veganrob]

It may be that Wiggins exaggerated his knee injury because he didn't want to get 'blown off the park' by Froome?? Not a good look for a reigning champ

Wiggins didn't know Froome was getting the good ***

 

[darwin553]

Wiggins didn't know Froome was getting the good ***

Team favoritism affords him that right I suppose...

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

I am more concerned with what happened between High Road in 2008 and Garmin in 2009

I´d like to know that too. I mean GAR was the clean team back then, while Highroad was the T-Mobile aftermath (producing GT-T20 guys out of nowhere like Sivtsov, Löfkvist, Gerdemann, Kirchen, etc.).
So why o why did Highroad miss on Wiggins?
Anyway, for me, the REAL suspicious guy at Sky (if there are any other than Wiggins at all) is Wiggins. I hope he spares us from watching him again in a GT.

For me he is the fraud ever (atop of Rijs, Rominger and Armstrong).

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Well we saw at the Giro that they were pretty much neck and neck up the highest categorised climbs but that was without the need for Porte to take on too much of a domestique role - last night Porte had to given the difficulty of the climbs and the lack of sky team-mates.

So there are too many variables to really say that Froome would have established anything close to a 15-20 second lead if it wasn't for Porte's sacrifices he made - maybe a 10 second lead is closer to the mark

OK, it´s 10 sec....
Still better than Wiggins crying out to Brailsford to stop Froome from riding last year. That was truly ugly.