Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

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Jul 29, 2009
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Pentacycle said:
The TT flattened out, which Martin handles much better, being almost 10 kgs heavier than Froome. This makes more sense than just guessing, as long as we don't have any power files.
oh come on let's guess...
Froome is so strong he is handing out stages like sweeties - fist to Dan Martin and then to Tony - he probably lets Michelle 'arrive' first too - that could explain her twittery devotion
 
Aug 6, 2009
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hrotha said:
It wasn't about avoiding a test, it was about PR.
it's a possibility and IMO much more plausible than Porte throwing away a likely second place for PR, but it is also possible that a TT specialists like Tony simply edged out a legitimate (for certain values of "legitimate") win against a less specialized Froome. Possibly aided by other mundane factors such as stronger headwind on the final stretch for Froome.
 
Cerberus said:
it's a possibility and IMO much more plausible than Porte throwing away a likely secodn place for PR, but it is also possible that a TT specialists like Tony simply edged out a legitimate (for certain values of "legitimate") win against a less specialized Froome. Possibly aided by other mundane factors such as stronger headwind on the final stretch for Froome.
Good in theory. But he was still 20% ahead of 3 other grand tour winners.

Porte last Satutday after pulling a massive turn then decided to rise off on said grand tour winners.

Strange.
 
veganrob said:
Is it possible we are seeing the results of genetic doping experiment. Scary to think about it but we know elite athletes will do anything to win.
Iirc correctly, a few years ago a poll was taken from olympic athletes, would they cheat to win a gold medal even if it meant they would have be dead in five years. I believe the majority said they would.
They do that poll all the time only with slight variations.

I know one time they gave the time as 5 years and i think it was just critically ill not dead and 90% said yes. When they went more extreme and said guaranteed death 1 year after 50% still said yes.

Tim Montgomery told Victor Conte that he wanted to break the 100m world record even if it mean that he would 1 minute after breaking the world record.
 
Jul 11, 2013
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Can someone explain me, why a up to recently anomunous rider suddenly turns into Merckx?

I mean, Eddy also won every race he entered, but he didn't came from no where?
 
Aug 6, 2009
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thehog said:
Good in theory. But he was still 20% ahead of 3 other grand tour winners.

Porte last Satutday after pulling a massive turn then decided to rise off on said grand tour winners.

Strange.
I'm not saying Froome isn't doping, I'm closer to the "I'll eat a cyanide covered hat if he's clean" camp. I just think there's a tendency on this forum to be attribute literally every up and down in the race to something doping related -often not even considering other explanations. It's difficult to find a non-doping related explanation to Froome's performance jumps and superhuman 3ax-domaine climb, but it's easy to find a non-doping related explanation for him "losing" a TT to a specialist (though less easy perhaps to explain how narrowly he lost it).
 
Jul 11, 2013
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Okay, to the ones who think he is doped

-Does he dope under the tour? or only up to races?

This could be important if he is to be busted under the tour.

As far as i know the french anti doping agenture has close cooperation to the police when it comes to surveillance and phonetapping etc.

If he is doped i would like to se him busted before the end..

And my hope is that the french can put pressure on sky to pull him out like Rasmussen.
 
BroDeal said:
A combination of two things. The peloton is cleaner, the doping is much more limited, and Froome is a great responder.

I think what DiLuca and Santambrogio show is that doping can make a huge difference now that the rest of the peloton is cleanish. Ironicly, the fight against doping has made doping even more efficacious, provided a rider can avoid being caught.

This is cycling at three speeds: Clean, limited doping, and Froome.
agreed. whenever a new test comes up or the existing testprocedures become better, two things will follow:
1) those who have the means will continue doping and will have a huge advantage. see armstrong & spanish riders in the last decade.
2) new (or old) drugs will rise up and for those who don't have the means (proper medical assistance) this will have terrible consequences. see ricco, gianetti, zanette, salanson and so on
 
Nov 26, 2012
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mrhender said:
When hardcore training AND doping took 5-8 years for Riis/rasmussen to make top 3 performances, then why only two for Froome?
How two? from being DQed in stage 19 of 2010 giro to 2011 TdS, thats less than a year.
 
Nov 26, 2012
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if someone dopes consistently round the year, then will biological passport be able to catch him?
 
Rollthedice said:
Probably Vroome turned down the gas because we was told or rather yelled at. Even so he almost took the stage. As for testing, LA was the most tested rider in history.
Per the official USADA records, he isn't even the most tested American cyclist named Armstrong...

Thats a myth that has long been shown to be false.
 
martinvickers said:
See, that's my thinking (i've expressed my views on Froome elsewhere)

IF I was pushed I would say it's a 'technique' rather than a 'substance'; say sleeping while hooked up to CPAP machines pumping super oxygenated air, or thinned oxygen, or whatever (I'm not suggesting that's what they do, simply the 'idea' of some wacky bit of o2 manipulation not involving a substance)

(CPAP machines are used by people with sleep apnea to raise soft palate and ensure steady breathing during sleep, to help normal oxygenation of blood. Great snoring aid too.

i know, BTW, because i use one. it pumps you full of air, and while uncomfortable for the first week, actually is very pleasant to use after that - a real feeling of 'clear' breathing, and that's just pumping standard air. I'm sure it could be hooked up to either reduce or increase 02.

Only drawback is tendencey to catch colds and coughs. It was Froome's persistant coughing during inteviews put it in my head.

now back to scheduled programming)
There are actually units that are built to do exactly what you are talking about. Rebreathing units designed to have you breath in more CO2 and less O2 ... results in less O2 Saturation.
 
Aug 6, 2009
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murali said:
if someone dopes consistently round the year, then will biological passport be able to catch him?
I'm pretty sure you couldn't get around it that simply. If you hypothetically took epo all year round you might be able to make your blood values look normal if you were really exact, but you'd dramatically increase your risk of testing positive the old fashioned way. So I supose you could technically possibly beat the passport, but not really.

Disclaimer: I'm not an expert - the preceeding text may diverge from reality in significant ways.
 
Oct 21, 2012
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murali said:
if someone dopes consistently round the year, then will biological passport be able to catch him?
I've wondered about this as well. If a rider is doped when they give their baseline values and stays doped throughout the year, there'll be no deviation, will there?
 
finchna said:
i was wondering if froome turned off the gas at the end of the itt to avoid a test, but the first place stage and overall tour leader and two random riders are tested each day.
Based on the 2012 Olympics TT, Martin beat him there too. However, he didn't stop doping prior to the TT. That TT power, like the climbing power, like the defending GC for 60+ KM over mountains is NOT NORMAL.

finchna said:
if froome is doping he's also being tested each day, right? is pharma producing new drugs that are hidden from the testing currently in place? if that's the hypothesis are samples of these riders blood being stored securely for future retesting?
To put it as simply as possible, remember when Armstrong used to deny doping by claiming he never tested positive?

The bio-passport while technically good, has the UCI (or any Olympics sport federation) managing entire process. We know the UCI has simply not processed positives (Armstrong) or tried to hide them. (Contador)

We know races have a say in what tests are run and some of them are very expensive. So, for example, the EPO test is rarely run.
 
mrhender said:
Okay, to the ones who think he is doped

-Does he dope under the tour? or only up to races?

This could be important if he is to be busted under the tour.
The way doping works is the bulk of it is done prior to the event. The athlete comes in looking clean as half-lives of whatever they've taken have run. It is widely accepted the tests are a couple of years behind the doping technology.

Finally, the sophisticated doping program calculates values to suspicious range, not positive. That's assuming the UCI/BC (hello Cookson) would process a positive.

mrhender said:
As far as i know the french anti doping agenture has close cooperation to the police when it comes to surveillance and phonetapping etc.

If he is doped i would like to se him busted before the end..

And my hope is that the french can put pressure on sky to pull him out like Rasmussen.
Agreed! I still want to know why Kierenkev(sp?) vanished.

And yet, at the top of ASO, Mme Amaury declared that ASO, her media properties would follow doping stories, not break them as they have in the distant past. My recollection is the Inner Ring has explained ASO/Mme. Amaury's role in setting the direction.
 
murali said:
if someone dopes consistently round the year, then will biological passport be able to catch him?
It’s actually better to dope all year round as your profile is consistent.

The computer software looks for inconsistencies. If you keep it consistent and know the parameters to work within of the software your profile will not get flagged and passed on to the review panel.

It’s even better to have a blood disease to mess up the numbers early and mid season so the liner colorations can’t be drawn over a longer period.

Simples.
 

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