Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[kaffenback]

Thought it was a rubbish post.

Lots of amateur "gut feeling", completely lacking in any data to support the opinion.

Like most of the trash posted in the clinic. Amateur and lacking.

Please note i don't know who is doping or not, i do know opinion attenpting to be passed off as fact when i see it however. Aka "the clinic."

The data is dealt with elsewhere.
That data is pretty damning when combined with the circumstantial evidence as I see it and tried to put together in my post.

Nobody is daft enough to think they know all the facts. It is clearly a very secretive topic and only a handful of people know the truth. This secrecy and omerta is the very reason that so much speculation and mistrust still exists.

But we are entitled to share our views and opinions and frankly, abusing people for doing so just makes you look trollish.

 

[the sceptic]

Thought it was a rubbish post.

Lots of amateur "gut feeling", completely lacking in any data to support the opinion.

Like most of the trash posted in the clinic. Amateur and lacking.

Please note i don't know who is doping or not, i do know opinion attenpting to be passed off as fact when i see it however. Aka "the clinic."

oh look another upset british fellow
why do you even bother reading the clinic?
just stay in the safe haven of the newspaper comment sections

 

[the sceptic]

LOL, attacking out of the saddle creates too much drag on a climb? someone should have told that to Contador..

What i want to see now
Froome sprints in the saddle on champs elysees to beat Cavendish

 

[Deagol]

The Guardian this year are deleting critical comments if they contain theories such as those put forward here.
The Telegraph deleted the whole comments section.

Censorship of the press, that sounds Orwellian....

I know Sky is a media empire (not sure if they conrol the Guardian), but really?

 

[thehog]

Did the Gadret comments get posted?

John Gadret (Ag2r-LaMondiale) has claimed that Team Sky has few friends in the peloton. Speaking in a long interview in L'Equipe, the shaven-headed Frenchman also suggested that there would be little sympathy or support for Froome if something happened to him during the final stages of the Tour.

"All the riders have turned against them because they're rich and because they think control the peloton," Gadret is reported to have said.

"At the Tour de Bavière (Bayern-Rundfahrt) they blocked the road behind the breakaway. But I went to the front with them. At the moment it's our fault, we just need to put our skates on and things would be quickly sorted out."

Asked if Froome could signify a fresh start for the sport, Gadret replied: "In any case, if something happens to him tomorrow (in the future), he will not have any support…"

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tour-de-france-shorts-rain-on-its-way-no-friends-for-team-sky

 

[TheEnoculator]

Thought it was a rubbish post.

Lots of amateur "gut feeling", completely lacking in any data to support the opinion.

Like most of the trash posted in the clinic. Amateur and lacking.

Please note i don't know who is doping or not, i do know opinion attenpting to be passed off as fact when i see it however. Aka "the clinic."

Whoa, I got the deja vu from the Armstrong days here: no evidence to support claims.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Anthony Tan ‏@anthony_tan 6m
Immediately after Stage 17, in #sbstdf's post-stage wrap with @miketomalaris, I'll explain why I think @chrisfroome is riding clean. #TdF

 

[del1962]

Censorship of the press, that sounds Orwellian....

I know Sky is a media empire (not sure if they conrol the Guardian), but really?

The Guardian hates Murdoch

It is not really a free speech issue, a newspaper is under no obligation to carry a platfoerm for any viewpoint, they edit as they see fit.

 

[FrankChickens]

What i want to see now
Froome sprints in the saddle on champs elysees to beat Cavendish

Thank you, about time we raised the bar.

Froome can do it and he owes it to cycling to show that clean riders can achieve anything!

Cav and Greipel will weep in the stick man's wake. Hopefully his groupset will be able to withstand the necessary seated cadence.

 

[mudbone]

This is the scariest development IMO...

i don't agree with you on analysis of mainstream coverage. i think it is tangibly changing, yesterday was pretty remarkable in a lot of ways, compared to the past. i really hope it continues.

 

[Jahudor]

What i want to see now
Froome sprints in the saddle on champs elysees to beat Cavendish

But when did Froome learn that? He clearly didn't know that in the Vuelta of 2011:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIRIAinJo0E

So now he knows he has to 'sharply accelerate' on those 18% sections while staying in his saddle.

 

[kaffenback]

Did the Gadret comments get posted?



http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tour-de-france-shorts-rain-on-its-way-no-friends-for-team-sky

Very interesting. It is wishful thinking but it would back up my gut feeling that something dramatic might happen to derail the Froome victory.

 

[The Hitch]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/brailsford-how-can-we-convince-you-we-arent-doping

Those are not Bailsfords words. Those are someone else saying Bailsford said it.
Where did Bailsford say he had spoken to Wada. Not where did someone else say Bailsford had spoken to Wada, where did Bailsford say it?

 

[Deagol]

The Guardian hates Murdoch

It is not really a free speech issue, a newspaper is under no obligation to carry a platfoerm for any viewpoint, they edit as they see fit.

OK, good to know the first point, but what about the fact that the comments are from the readers? How could a paper/website get sued for comments not of their own origin?

 

[Benotti69]

Those are not Bailsfords words. Those are someone else saying Bailsford said it.
Where did Bailsford say he had spoken to Wada. Not where did someone else say Bailsford had spoken to Wada, where did Bailsford say it?

Dan Benson wrote the article Hitch, if you are really interested if the quote is 100% accurate, contact Benson and ask him for the script.

I doubt Benson is going to risk the ire of cycling's current percieved golden goose and a loss in ad revenue by misquoting and I guess Fran Millar has been busying checking for misquotes, so it they would have released a press release to correct Benson.

 

[kaffenback]

i don't agree with you on analysis of mainstream coverage. i think it is tangibly changing, yesterday was pretty remarkable in a lot of ways, compared to the past. i really hope it continues.

Hmm, not sure as there has been so much written and said about the Armstrong saga in the last year, people are willing to discuss it to some degree and rightly so.

In terms of mainstream speculation specifically regarding Froome/Sky, I hope you're right. Actually watching the opening segment of today's ITV coverage, I was quite impressed at Gary Imlach's intro regarding all the suspicion and even questioning Sky's tactics on how they're dealing with it. i.e. not really dealing with it!

 

[Spencer the Half Wit]

OK, good to know the first point, but what about the fact that the comments are from the readers? How could a paper/website get sued for comments not of their own origin?

English libel laws mean you can sue the publisher and author. The Guardian would be the publisher and as they have money they would be the one sued.

 

[Deagol]

English libel laws mean you can sue the publisher and author. The Guardian would be the publisher and as they have money they would be the one sued.

Thanks. In that context, I guess it does make sense for them to remove the comments.

 

[the sceptic]

http://www.lemonde.fr/sport/article...e-avec-armstrong-et-pantani_3447779_3242.html

Interesting article. Google translate sucks but i thought this was pretty interesting

There is evidence that does not deceive: VO2max, the maximum capacity of a body can consume oxygen. Crucial for an endurance sport like cycling. I trained Jean-Christophe Péraud until the Athens Olympics. It is the best French on this Tour (9 to 7 min 47 s Froome). Yesterday morning he m has confirmed the constancy of his VO2max during his career: it varies between 79 and 85 ml / min / kg, depending on the weight of the season. In the laboratory, on a plateau of sports medicine, we can, through this simple test, fully assess the capabilities of the "engine" of an athlete and predict its performance. Péraud has always been, in my opinion, without doping and ... exceptional among the 500 runners that I was able to test, Festina riders included. It was evaluated by the VO2max often. His performances have always been our human radar and in line with these tests.

Logically, so I asked Dave and Tim if they could provide me with this simple assessment test compulsory in France in the longitudinal follow-up for licensing on Froome. They said they had not. Maybe they are working with a quantum physicist? If Chris in an accredited laboratory can have a VO2max greater than 90 ml / min / kg and it can show through another test that can hold 87.5% of the VO2max available more than thirty minutes I could try to believe that it is exceptional, beautifully trained and the best climber-wheeler of all time. I can make him pass these tests. It remains to analyze the biological passport so refined. Life is beautiful and we could stop the wind that no respite to the shaft protruding from the forest. There are three radars to decipher in the Alps. So, Sir David, Tim, you give us the evidence? "Where are the proofs?"

 

[acoggan]

http://www.lemonde.fr/sport/article...e-avec-armstrong-et-pantani_3447779_3242.html

Interesting article. Google translate sucks but i thought this was pretty interesting

Vayer's logic seems flawed to me. Clearly Froome's VO2max is high enough to out-perform his competition (which, importantly, is not the same as saying that his VO2max is higher than that of his competition), but knowing precisely what it is tells you no more about whether he is doping or not than knowing his actual power output.

 

[Cobblestones]

Vayer's logic seems flawed to me. Clearly Froome's VO2max is high enough to out-perform his competition (which, importantly, is not the same as saying that his VO2max is higher than that of his competition), but knowing precisely what it is tells you no more about whether he is doping or not than knowing his actual power output.

So which physiological parameter can be used to establish doping? According to you, neither VO2max, nor W/kg fits the bill.

 

[D-Queued]

Hi, I've been a long time viewer of the forums and especially the clinic, mainly due to the LA affair and following reading books from T Hamilton and D Walsh amongst others.

This is my first post....

This investment in an Olympics and a bizarre need for medals in kind has proven over and over to result in doping programs, most often, right from the very top.

...

However, as far as I am concerned. The game is up.

1) Froome is very, very dirty - one of the most doped riders in the history of cycling.

2) Sky and BC are possibly the source of the dirt but at the very least are dirty by association.

...

hope this doesn't get lost in all the smaller digressions. One of the best summaries we've had of the situation in all the 50 000 or so posts that have graced the sky topics since last July.

Agreed. Excellent post.

A detractor suggested the post did not contain fact. That was wrong. It does contain fact as well as inescapable logic. The salient point being that we shouldn't ignore the obvious.

I highlighted the bit about the Olympics because it is bang on. The poster children for this were the Greek Sprinters at Athens 2004.

The contrast to Greece is that Canada succeeded, twice, in being the only country to host the Olympics without achieving gold - and in both summer and winter no less. Fortunately, the country didn't strike out on its third try.

Dave.

 

[DirtyWorks]

So which physiological parameter can be used to establish doping? According to you, neither VO2max, nor W/kg fits the bill.

If prior posts are any indication, it's complicated science and you can't understand it. Feel free to guess and he'll reply with veiled personal attacks.

 

[mudbone]

Actually watching the opening segment of today's ITV coverage, I was quite impressed at Gary Imlach's intro regarding all the suspicion and even questioning Sky's tactics on how they're dealing with it. i.e. not really dealing with it!

yup, me too. after listening, watching and reading a lot of coverage after sunday's stage you could really perceive a big change in tone across the board. to me a lot of it seemed underpinned with relief that they weren't in this tough spot anymore of obviously discussing this stuff amongst themselves for so long, but, for a variety of reasons, largely keeping it 'off-screen'.

 

[Cobblestones]

If prior posts are any indication, it's complicated science and you can't understand it. Feel free to guess and he'll reply with veiled personal attacks.

I'm afraid that's going to be the answer. Still hoping for an honest answer (but not holding my breath).